I’m just here because I love seeing comments that read “deleted by creator” in all the threads about Jesus.
Klingons did it best.
Fun fact: the actual death from crucifiction was suffocation. Once the victim loses the strength to hold themselves up, the slouch puts some sort of stress on their lungs. There was an instance of the Romans not breaking someone’s legs (which suggests that maybe that was part of the practice) so they would suffer longer. I don’t remember where that info came from, but I’ve been reading lots of books about the first 200 years of christianity for about 20 months.
I’m an atheist, of course, just also a history nerd.
One other side note: around 1999, I wanted to make a “student” film (I was barely a student) about the life and times of christ. He’d fuck up and raise Lazarus as a zombie in one of the scenes. Never made it.
Mad TV did one where the terminator went back to protect Jesus
Your film idea makes me think you’d enjoy the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, a book in the apocrypha starring Mary teaching baby Jesus not to kill his classmates for being dumb kids.
I just opened the wiki article to read next. That brief description sounds familiar. I might have read about that in Elaine Pagel’s book, The Gnostic Gospels.
It’s straight up like a sitcom in parts. Probably for the best that it never made it into the canon bible though.
Would you recommend any of the books you’ve been reading about the era?
The Passover Plot, How Jesus Became God, Jesus the Jew. It’s been surprisingly fun.
“I’ve read some more of this book. Apparently, if your neighbors show up at your house wanting to rape your guests, you should send out your daughters to be raped instead.”
Crucifixion didn’t lead to death by starvation but by suffocation.
elaborate? (I could Google it, but I prefer human response)
Basically, once your feet/legs get too tired to carry your weight you hang from your arms. This basically means to breathe you have to push up your entire body weight with your chest muscles. After a while you get too exhausted to breathe and suffocate.
interesting, why can you breath? is the position stretching the chest making it harder?
Yes, it makes it harder to both inhale and exhale because it makes it difficult to expand or compress your chest since your whole body weight is keeping it stretched.
ok.
however, wasn’t he nailed? wouldn’t bleeding from those injuries kill you faster?
isn’t there a part where he was also stabbed by a spear?
they really wanted him dead
The stabbing thing happened after he died.
Romans would brake the legs of crucified victims to check if they were still alive. In Jesus case they instead pocked him with a spear.
The person that wrote this part of the gospel (as in, very likley, made it up), had to write this in because they needed to keep the story of Jesus in line with old testament prophecies about the Messias, one of which speaks of said Messias beeing “unbroken”. So they came up with an alternative to the leg braking.
It’s one of several examples where gospel writers tried to write things into the gospel that made it look like Jesus was the Messias by inventing events about him that made his life line up with existing prophecies about the jewish messiah.
It is believed they nailed through the wrists not the hands.
You could probably put a nail through your wrist and just leave it and live your life without treating it. You’d have to be unlucky and hit a large vein and your body not clot properly, the nail would help stop the blood.
It’s like the myth with a bullet. First thing is not to pull it out because it will make things worse. You can live with a bullet in you.
The stabbing of the spear, to my knowledge, was for mercy so he’d not suffer as long.
Crucifixion strikes me as the kind of punishment where they would endeavour to ensure the person would survive up there for a decent while — to prolong their suffering, and the display of said suffering. It’s a grim method of execution.
That probably would have killed him even faster yes. Usually with crucifixions people weren’t nailed but tied to the cross with ropes.
I recently read The World Until Yesterday which compares the way of life between tribal cultures and western cultures. The section about religion has a clumsy preamble that was obviously trying to cushion the blow for religious people reading the book who thought their religion was any different to tribal religions.
The author then goes on to treat them all the same.
It was quite funny to read. I was imagining how it must feel to see your religion laid out side by side with a dozen other equally stupid myths and think “Yep this is the right one. I was super lucky to be born to parents who picked the correct religion!”
a dozen other equally stupid myths
I think there is some missing context here that makes this an unfair comparison. In general, tribal cultures didn’t treat their creation myths as literal fact. It was more of a poetic way to explain to the children of the tribe where their people had come from and give the tribe a sense of identity. Since they didn’t have Science to actually explain how they got there, this seems as reasonable as anything honestly.
If someone from a different nation were to come visit and relate their account of creation, they wouldn’t argue with the person and insist that their creation myth was the ‘correct’ one and that the visitor was wrong. They were a different people so it makes sense they were ‘created’ in a different way. Since neither was attempting to explain things in a literal way, the two different stories weren’t incompatible with each other.
It’s likely that the creation myths of the ancient Hebrew people were looked at in a similar way at first, they were a tribal people after all. At some point (likely to do with the Agricultural Revolution, but that’s a whole different topic) they started conquering and subjugating the neighboring tribes and insisting those people adopt their spiritual practice, that’s when the whole deal of insisting it was the literal truth came about.
In the bible Yahweh and the Hebrews spend a lot of time worrying about what ‘gods’ the other tribes worshiped. Much more so than would be rational if you considered Yahweh to be the one, true, only and actual God. The reason that so much time was spent on it was because Yahweh was just a story, just like all the other Gods and you had to go out of your way to get people to follow along with the narrative that that one story was ‘true’, otherwise who would believe it?
So while it’s easy for us to look back on the beliefs of tribal cultures and dismiss them as stupid, we are misunderstanding the purpose and intent of these stories. It’s only ‘stupid’ if you take it literally. In context it was a lot less dumb and probably somewhat necessary to a harmonious life.
We have the benefit of pretty much knowing exactly how humans and the world got here, so we were never in a situation of having one of our children come up to us and ask how we got here and only being able to answer with “I have no idea.” That would have been the situation that tribal societies would have been in if you were expecting them to give a scientific answer to the question. So it’s really not the case that their creation myths were “Stupid”, but more it was the best system they could possibly have had at the time.
I see what you’re getting at, and I personally think that’s probably how a lot of the myths/religions start, but I don’t think you can outright say that tribes only thought of them as children’s stories.
In the book I was referencing, the author noted the “cost” of a religion, in that the tribes were usually required to spend a significant amount of their time worshiping, and/or discarded resources in the name of sacrifice. One of the tribes studied spent 1 out of every 3 days worshiping. A very large commitment for people who have a very real risk of starvation if their hunts go badly. He then goes on to argue that there must be an evolutionary benefit to religion or an atheist tribe would have out-competed all of these tribes (but that’s another tangent). I bring this up because it implies that they do actually believe their “stories”, otherwise why risk starvation?
That’s a good point, I worded it poorly. I didn’t mean to imply that the adults didn’t ‘believe’ it and just told that to their children. I think that it was more the case that they believed in the spiritual truths behind the stories and not necessarily that they were literal, although I can’t say for certain that was the case in all instances. Maybe some of them did believe it literally or didn’t really make a distinction between spiritually true and literally true. It’s not like they had the scientific knowledge to know what the alternative was.
I think it’s natural to try and explain the world around you, and if you don’t have the tools to know what is really going on- then yeah you will probably make some crazy guesses. And then if you tell it to your children as if it were fact, then they might not question it seeing as how you are a trusted elder.
I think my point though was that it really isn’t what I would call ‘stupid’ to do something like create a silly myth and pass it on. For me where it becomes stupid is when you insist it’s the literal truth and that other people believe it, or when you refuse to update your worldview in the case where better evidence comes along because you are a zealot about your mythology.
Yeah you’re right, I didn’t mean to imply that they’re stupid. It’s stupid to us, but that’s only because we’re standing on the shoulders of giants.
For me, a historical fiction that put norse and chriatianity on similar footing was the push that got me from “ugh this religious stuff is annoying” to “oh, it’s probably bullshit, too”. In hindsight, it’s pretty telling that christianity puts the most emphasis on having faith no matter what evidence or lack thereof is presented, to the point where that alone determines whether one is punished, ignored, or rewarded in a way that is completely unverifiable to anyone living.
I’ve been saying for years this is literal training for anti-intellectualism and ultimately fascism and hate. As soon as you can convince yourself to believe something just because someone said to without any evidence or even contrary evidence, you’re primed to start doing that in other areas of your life. Grifters and fascists will absolutely take advantage of people like that without a second thought, and they scream their propaganda all over Fox news. Religion is more than just some stupid bullshit people believe, it’s a threat to democracy and freedom.
Absolutely.
Blind faith is an incredibly dangerous habit.
It’s crazy that we accept it as a normal human variation.
Japanese media is full of this, and it’s great. All kinds of absurd cross-shaped guns and militant priests with nothing more than vague aesthetic similarities to practiced christianity. A delightful reciprocation to how western media treats japanese culture.
I maintain that the ending and plotline of Evangelion is actually closer to actual Christian canon than most people’s understandings.
The original ending, End of Evangelion, or Rebuild?
The good one!
which is that?
If you go by the opinions I have seen expressed online, none of them.
This comment reminds me of the japanese cult that beliefs Jesus did not die on the cross but it was his japaneae brother instead and Jesus moved to Japan until he died of old age.
The biggest cult in the Philippines, which dabbles in prosperity gospel and owns an entire arena here, believed it was some Filipino man. I don’t even remember if they view him as Jesus or some other incarnation. But where I live, they have the most followers. Oh and sometimes, they get people killed, like what happened to my uncle years ago.
believed it was some Filipino man
somehow god always looks like his believers.
Shit. Sorry about your uncle. From what I read the japanese cult seems peaceful at least.
Jesus moved to Japan until he died of old age
Ah, that explains the “resurrection” - they faked his coming back to life so they could keep collecting his benefits.
lol
It’s full of mercy.
- Wolfwood
Do you have any good examples; that sounds entertaining af.
The castlevania series on Netflix (maybe not necessarily anime).
Those two have heavy Christian references. However a lot of fantasy based anime have a lot of pseudo references to Christianity. Either in the form of clergy (Feiren)/cross based weaponry (Quincy in bleach)/or angels vs demons context (that kinds side steps specific religious affiliation, but heavy Christian elements).
Hellsing
Soul Eater has a bunch of it, tho it’s not a very good anime. Trigun too. Really tho it’s all over, it’ll crop up even if you aren’t looking for it.
Now that I think of it, one of the few anime I have seen; Hellsing and Hellsing Ultimate, had some of this. A priest seeking to rid the world of vampires, constantly clashing with Alucard.
“We don’t drink blood here. That’s something Christians do.” ~Satanist member
“I’m not in the business of murdering innocent children. That’s God’s jurisdiction.”
- Lucifer, The Devil’s Carnival
It’s very important to note that Catholics believe that Jesus was both fully man and fully god, and in times past would straight up kill you for heresy for saying he was half man and half god.
True, but getting some details wrong seems to fit with the theme of the meme.
Catholicism is all about meaningless distinctions with no basis in reality which drive them into murderous rage.
This 200% being, The fact that the bread and wine is 100% blood and flesh, don’t ask.
It’s got to have been awful to be neurodivergent in the past. I want to dig into this right now and I grew up Catholic, so I know it doesn’t lead anywhere.
me too, i always wanted to actually understand how the stuff worked, but the best answer i ever got was something related to “god works in mysterious ways” or some other bs
Normalizing a 2D vector is not part of the scripture, apparently.
(edit) I fucked up with my math. Normalizing either kind of Jesus would result in a being that is ~0.707 part divine and human. But if we assume that Jesus is both fully divine and fully human, that would make his magnitude
sqrt(2), which means that Christian beliefs are based on something that is completely irrational, which I’ve found to be true.Well, in scripture a circle can be 10 cubits in diameter and 30 cubits in circumference, so…
I guess all that we can conclude is that through god, all things are possible.
God doesn’t play dice with the universe because the universe got fed up with his 24-sided d20s.
Of which the additional four sides are, somehow, both 1s and 20s simultaneously, depending on how they feel that day.
Jesus: “What did you call me bitch?”
deleted by creator
…what? Is this a response to the Olympics thing? Am I in the wrong thread?
Nah, that’s what Lot did when he was hosting a couple of angels for God, who had sent them there to Lot (the only good man in Sodom) to see if he or anyone in Sodom was worth saving. Then an angry mob shows up to Lot’s house and demands that Lot let than rape the angels, cause they were hot. Lot instead offers up his two daughters (who were fucking each other anyway, so whatevs) to be raped by the crowd. God thinks that that’s cool, so he promises Lot and his wife safe passage out of Sodom as he destroys it, but them must swear to not look back upon it’s destruction. While they are leaving town, Lot’s wife looks back at the city being destroyed and is turned into a pillar of salt.
who were fucking each other anyway, so whatevs
Where are you getting that from? The only thing the bible says about Lot’s daughters when the mob shows up was that they were virgins.
After God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah (and Lot’s wife) and they were living in a cave in the hills, the daughters get Lot drunk and take turns having sex with him, but this was more a way to explain the origin of the Ammonites and the Moabites in an unflattering way than anything else. The bible almost exclusively portrays women in a terrible way, so the fact that they seemingly raped their dad likely wasn’t the point of the story.
They were hot alright. If only they took off their robes, everyone would see just how meltingly hot they are. It’s to die for!
They’re all cults
Nah, emotional support dieties. Useful for pushing responsibility away from one’s self.
it’s sometimes the exact opposite! (people who think that if they do anything bad they’ll suffer for the rest of eternity)
Por que no los dos
The Wicker Man (1973) has entered the chat
“Not the bees! NOT THE BEES!!”
Oh, 1973. My mistake!
“Happy Easter…”
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slams book shut
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guitar sting
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No Gods, No Masters.
