The 2nd season was already in production when the allegations/proof came out, and I guess Netflix did not want to just burn all that money for nothing.
But they did cancel the 3rd season
Not defending him in any way, but has there been more proof released? Last I saw he was investigated by authorities and there wasn’t enough evidence to prove a criminal case. And I get not enough to prove a criminal case doesn’t mean he didn’t do it, but it also means there isn’t much evidence. Again, not defending him. This kind of behavior is gross and unacceptable.
I get that, but I tend to think the burden of proof in a criminal case is much higher than the burden of proof to believe a victim outside of a courtroom.
In this case I don’t think there is any reason to doubt the victims, and the pressure and evidence points to victims tending to not come forward, the fact that there are multiple accusations from multiple victims indicates to me a much higher probability that Gaiman is guilty of some sexual crimes than not. Luckily my opinion or assessment of Gaiman’s behavior doesn’t have consequences like jail time, so my beliefs do not demand the same scrutiny as a judge’s or a jury’s.
Not that it’s wrong to think about the evidence, but culturally I think we tend to discount survivors and victims more than we validate them, and that can make questions about evidence really difficult, even harmful. Still, we obviously can’t ignore the problem of evidence, but luckily that’s primarily a concern for the courts (not that being cancelled doesn’t have consequences, and “cancel culture” can be reactive, essentializing, and unfair - that’s probably something we should collectively think about more).
A fair breakdown, and logically thought out opinion. Rare these days. Looking at the evidence you provided makes me lean heavily in the same direction as yourself. The reactivity of online “cancel culture” is what had me second guessing, especially since the authorities dropped it. Thanks for taking the time to help me better understand the situation and get the full picture.
He was investigated by the New Zealand authorities. What has happened with the other women has not been investigated as far as I know.
The New Zealand case became a civil lawsuit.
With the UK woman who accused him of pressuring her to give him oral when she could no longer pay her rent, Gaiman has sued her for breaking a nondisclosure agreement.
I’m not sure what has happened with the other women. Gaiman’s own statements on it have not endeared him to people.
Thank you for the updated information. Absolutely abhorrent behavior. I Google’d around a bit myself but most of the articles focused more on his TV show cancellations…
Yeah, that’s just what Netflix does. They cancel shows. I’m skeptical that the cancelation decision was made because of gaiman’s allegations. If it was I don’t see how continuing production on season 2 after the fact makes any sense.
From what I’ve read, they did cancel the 3rd season - maybe not directly because of what Gaiman did, but for sure because it’s not very cash money to do productions with him right now
I love the sandman. I have yearned for an adaptation for years. Then we get one and it’s actually good. Not good for comic book TV. Actually GOOD good.
And then the show goes and gets himself and the show cancelled because he’d a fucking sex creep. Fuck you Neil.
Also, fuck you Amanda fucking Palmer. It took a while before we found out, but you’ve been complicit in this fucking stuff for ages.
Honestly, I’m developing massive trust issues, I’m starting to reflexively fear liking stuff because I’m pretty sure one of the people involved with it is going to turn out to be a massive predator any minute now.
it’s easy to complain about death of the author when you don’t care about their work.
but even you do, even just enjoying it a bit, it’s a bit harder.
you can pirate it, you get to enjoy it and they get no revenue from it. but then engaging with the content is free advertising, so just watch it and keep it to yourself.
i’m a believer that we should just consider the works forfeited to the public domain and let the author’s name be forgotten to time, let the future think of it as we think about german fairytales.
While still a bad person, what Gaiman did limited to a number of people, not a number of countries, also his work is actually good, not half-baked garbage only held up by nostalgia.
Doesn’t season 2 of the sandman come out in a couple weeks? Doesnt really seem like he’s being boycotted.
The 2nd season was already in production when the allegations/proof came out, and I guess Netflix did not want to just burn all that money for nothing. But they did cancel the 3rd season
Not defending him in any way, but has there been more proof released? Last I saw he was investigated by authorities and there wasn’t enough evidence to prove a criminal case. And I get not enough to prove a criminal case doesn’t mean he didn’t do it, but it also means there isn’t much evidence. Again, not defending him. This kind of behavior is gross and unacceptable.
I get that, but I tend to think the burden of proof in a criminal case is much higher than the burden of proof to believe a victim outside of a courtroom.
In this case I don’t think there is any reason to doubt the victims, and the pressure and evidence points to victims tending to not come forward, the fact that there are multiple accusations from multiple victims indicates to me a much higher probability that Gaiman is guilty of some sexual crimes than not. Luckily my opinion or assessment of Gaiman’s behavior doesn’t have consequences like jail time, so my beliefs do not demand the same scrutiny as a judge’s or a jury’s.
Not that it’s wrong to think about the evidence, but culturally I think we tend to discount survivors and victims more than we validate them, and that can make questions about evidence really difficult, even harmful. Still, we obviously can’t ignore the problem of evidence, but luckily that’s primarily a concern for the courts (not that being cancelled doesn’t have consequences, and “cancel culture” can be reactive, essentializing, and unfair - that’s probably something we should collectively think about more).
A fair breakdown, and logically thought out opinion. Rare these days. Looking at the evidence you provided makes me lean heavily in the same direction as yourself. The reactivity of online “cancel culture” is what had me second guessing, especially since the authorities dropped it. Thanks for taking the time to help me better understand the situation and get the full picture.
He was investigated by the New Zealand authorities. What has happened with the other women has not been investigated as far as I know.
The New Zealand case became a civil lawsuit.
With the UK woman who accused him of pressuring her to give him oral when she could no longer pay her rent, Gaiman has sued her for breaking a nondisclosure agreement.
I’m not sure what has happened with the other women. Gaiman’s own statements on it have not endeared him to people.
Thank you for the updated information. Absolutely abhorrent behavior. I Google’d around a bit myself but most of the articles focused more on his TV show cancellations…
here are the things I’ve read:
overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Gaiman#Sexual_assault_and_misconduct_allegations
some reporting: https://www.vulture.com/article/neil-gaiman-allegations-controversy-amanda-palmer-sandman-madoc.html
note: content warning, NSFL
Yeah, that’s just what Netflix does. They cancel shows. I’m skeptical that the cancelation decision was made because of gaiman’s allegations. If it was I don’t see how continuing production on season 2 after the fact makes any sense.
From what I’ve read, they did cancel the 3rd season - maybe not directly because of what Gaiman did, but for sure because it’s not very cash money to do productions with him right now
I can’t tell if I’m allowed to be excited about it because I love Sandman but Gaiman is a creep.
I love the sandman. I have yearned for an adaptation for years. Then we get one and it’s actually good. Not good for comic book TV. Actually GOOD good.
And then the show goes and gets himself and the show cancelled because he’d a fucking sex creep. Fuck you Neil.
Also, fuck you Amanda fucking Palmer. It took a while before we found out, but you’ve been complicit in this fucking stuff for ages.
Honestly, I’m developing massive trust issues, I’m starting to reflexively fear liking stuff because I’m pretty sure one of the people involved with it is going to turn out to be a massive predator any minute now.
As someone who loves the graphic novels, the show just didn’t do it for me. I don’t think any show could do it justice.
It wasn’t bad or anything, but it was lacking something that made the books so special imo
it’s easy to complain about death of the author when you don’t care about their work.
but even you do, even just enjoying it a bit, it’s a bit harder.
you can pirate it, you get to enjoy it and they get no revenue from it. but then engaging with the content is free advertising, so just watch it and keep it to yourself.
i’m a believer that we should just consider the works forfeited to the public domain and let the author’s name be forgotten to time, let the future think of it as we think about german fairytales.
we should bring back old copyright limits of 14 years. or probably less, like 5 years.
then it wouldn’t matter at all what an author says.
Kudos for Tom Lether for putting all his songs into the public domain so it doesn’t get bounced around for 70 years after his death.
While still a bad person, what Gaiman did limited to a number of people, not a number of countries, also his work is actually good, not half-baked garbage only held up by nostalgia.