https://feddit.org/post/13994826/7165181
Everything I downvoted was because I genuinely do not think it’s good. Like meat is not going to cure cancer.
I actually really like eating meat I just try to life a life that gives others room to enjoy this earth too without mutually destroying it.
Please tell me how I am the asshole :)
YDI.
Vegans are touchy because they are always experiencing the suffering of others through empathy they refuse to tune out. “Carnivores” are touchy because they resent the moral judgement of others.
YDI, mass downvoting is toxic.
You claim to hate the carnivore community, and yet you’re here posting your beef… Curious
That is objectively funny😂
You win the interwebs today!
What is with all the twats purposefully going into communities they don’t agree with just to be asswaffles?
YDI, and quite frankly I applaud the mod for not putting up with your bullshit and shutting you down before you disrupt their community.
What’s with all these communities who can’t handle a single opposing viewpoint. Almost like the point is just to sit around and jerk each other off.
The mod message clearly says it wasn’t because of an opposing viewpoint but was for mass downvoting.
You go into a community you already disagree with you’re going to see a lot of comments you disagree with too. Mass downvoting isn’t engagement. Perhaps instead of downvoting all those posts, OP could have responded to them with their opposing view and actual engaged with the opposition like they did in the one referenced post.
Nobody owes you a place to voice your opinion. Our instance, our rules. Accept that, or get banned, it’s that easy.
I’m not forcing anyone to allow people to voice their opinion, just calling them weak and emotional when they can’t handle an opposing opinion. Double points if they can be mention banning someone and free speech in the same sentence.
I don’t care if I’m banned it doesnt change my life. Dbzer0 banned me like two years ago or so already anyways. Second most hypocritical next to .world.
Narrator: In this comment, Rekorse had failed to understand the difference between the pop culture use of the term “anarchy” meaning “no rules” and the political theory of Anarchism, which if it was distilled into a sound bite would be something like “no state”. Maybe he was confusing us with Freeze Peach Libertarians? Perchance we’ll never know.
I wish I could make sense of this.
Dbzer0 banned me like two years ago or so already anyways.
Wow, this sounds like you are ban evading then. Hmmmm…
How is it ban evading? I’m on a different instance, can’t help it if dbzer0 is allowed where I’m at.
Well because the line of thinking is that if you are banned, then have start on a different instance and post on the place where you are banned, it’s ban-evading. Just giving you the heads up. I personally don’t care if you post here or not, I have no issues with you. Just saying that you are sorta admitting out loud to ban-evading.
I don’t really care what I’m doing is called, I won’t change it based on whether its officially ban evasion or not. If I get banned here for it, I’ll make another account or move instances. I’m not sure why people are so concerned about keeping their account in good standing to be honest.
can’t handle an opposing opinion.
Well … WHAT IS YOUR OPPOSING OPINION? Show me the non-epidemology that a ketogenic diet is unhealthy, or that animal based foods are unhealthy.
So far you have only illustrated that you don’t like the concept of the community… There isn’t much there for me to work with.
Double points if they can be mention banning someone and free speech in the same sentence.
Free Speech and Freedom of assembly are both compatible.
I don’t care if I’m banned it doesnt change my life.
Your not banned… you haven’t broken any community guidelines.I’ve decided our interactions in this thread mean I probably should just put the ban in place, we have demonstrated we can’t be civil in our conversations and it wouldn’t be productive.Someone smarter and with better sources already tried and it didnt change much. You don’t seem to care about people, you seem to just want to be “right” based on your perspective and narrative.
Again though, I don’t care to be part of your communities so have fun with your power trip.
They did handle it, they banned them. That’s handling the problem quite nicely.
As for your alt being banned from db0, good riddance. There’s no place for centrist scum here, especially scum who play devils advocate for pedophiles.
Who’s playing devils advocate for pedophiles?
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fr, like go back to Facebook where there are no downvotes, maybe the fediverse isn’t a good fit for you
We need to stop normalizing banning people for how they vote.
If someone never participates in a community apart from popping in to mass downvote, they have no interest to be in this community.
But if there’s a community spreading harmful disinformation and it pops up in my all, I should give it an upvote for the effort or what?
I see a lot of these communities browsing by all lately and when I downvote the posts I see (which are literal harmful disinformation) I get banned for downvoting.
If you profoundly disagree with any community views, I suggest you block and move on. Going there and downvoting everything is a dick move.
In this case, it’s not a profound disagreement with the community’s purpose (carnivore diet). I find the concept interesting.
But if I see some horrendous thing from that community (Youtuber saying eating meat cures cancer) in my All feed and downvote it, then apparently I’m being a dick and deserve to be banned immediately?
That video was one ladies personal testimonial and she didn’t just do carnivore, she also incorporated prolonged fasts intermixed with carnivore refeeding. Her single experience was that her inoperable tumor went into remission. That isn’t the same thing as “carnivore cures cancer.”
The interesting cancer research going on with glioblastomas is with a ketogenic protocol (not specifically carnivore) - a press (keto), and pulse (glucose and glutamine suppression) protocol - which has demonstrated some promising early data. Taking advantage of the warburg effect (i.e. cancer only metabolizes glucose and glutamine).
Now going back to the testimonial lady, she didn’t following a observed protocol, she wasn’t using a press/pulse protocol. She just kinda stumbled around and for some reason her inoperable tumor went away. It’s interesting, but hardly anything to hang your hat on. However, the value of the underlying testimonial is still there - if nothing else is working for your specific situation you can try carnivore - it couldn’t hurt.
No but if your ONLY interference with this community (or any community) is to downvote, you have no interest being there.
Actively combatting harmful medical misinformation is not a “dick move”, they deserve every downvote and worse
Then combat it with links?
The problem is - what you consider harmful misinformation I consider foundational nutrition. How can we reconcile our different perspectives?
I see a few options
- We ignore each other, bygones and the like
- We have a productive chat trying to improve our mutual understanding of the world
- Or we can go around calling everything we disagree with disinformation (fake news heh), and paint the world in negativity
I prefer 2, but I’m happy with 1 - I find 3 boring and not a good use of my time.
If you truly prefer 2 then you wouldn’t automatically ban people for downvoting posts in your communities. Downvoting things on my way past in my All feed is not an act of disrespect to your whole worldview.
Rather - you downvoted every post and comment in the community so its not a good fit
You don’t downvote comments from All, do you? Wouldn’t that require you to go into the post and actively downvote them one by one?
I don’t know what you’re quoting here because I dont think that was at me.
I was pretty sure I downvoted like 3 posts and a couple of comments in those, but then upvoted another one and some comments in that thread. However, looking back at the comm, my UI shows I have only downvoted one post and no comments, so I must have actually been banned after downvoting literally 1 post. I only realised I was banned when I tried to comment on a post, so was still trying to participate without even realizing I couldn’t.
You can upvote/downvote direcrly from All, but I think its pretty normal behaviour to click on it from there and then upvote/downvote. Downvoting literally every comment would be a lot more work and is a pretty dumb move.
If you truly prefer 2 then you wouldn’t automatically ban people for downvoting posts in your communities.
I’m quoting the mod’s comment to OP from the image on this post in reference to your quote above.
Downvoting literally every comment would be a lot more work and is a pretty dumb move.
Yet that’s exactly what OP is stated to have done by the mod.
Good point
Like in online games we have different types of users
PvE Users - They want to talk about stuff
PvP Users - they want to win fights
The PvP users are always mad that the PvE users don’t want to mingle
i look forward to the lemmy 1.0 feature “private communities” where only subscribers see posts. That would be a good way to grow niche communities
Perhaps a blend of the reddit model to make it configurable if a post can go to all.
Removed by mod
Communities are built on shared interest, or expressed differently they are built on excluding people who don’t share a interest.
i look forward to the lemmy 1.0 feature “private communities” where only subscribers see posts.
Any idea when this feature comes out?
hahaha, its on the road map, but I’m guessing ‘when its ready’
We need to stop normalizing banning people for how they vote.
Here’s the problem though. I’ve been a victim of downvote brigades. It usually starts with someone downvoting every single post in one of my communities. Fine, maybe they don’t like my politics. But then it spreads. They start hitting every community I run, even the non-political ones, and downvote everything I post. Eventually, they downvote every single post I make anywhere, just because it’s me.
Some people genuinely get joy out of doing that. They don’t read the post or care about the content. They just see a name they don’t like and hit downvote.
I’m not making this up. I saw it happen over and over. That’s why banning users based solely on voting behavior became a feature. It was needed.
So I started banning people who only showed up to downvote and never contributed. Once I did that, they stopped bothering those communities. They knew they couldn’t mess with me anymore.
Since then, serial downvoting has dropped across the Fediverse. People figured out they could get banned for it.
It wasn’t about disagreeing with information. It was about targeting people. I’m not saying OP did that, but that’s the pattern I’ve seen.
I personally would like to see votes be eliminated for the entire fediverse so the vote manipulators have no way to try to shape narratives.
Removed by mod
I think you’re making it out to be a bigger deal than it actually is.
Well, the developers did make it a feature to be able to ban based on voting.
We didn’t always have that feature, it’s relatively new. So I guess there were enough people asking for it that it became a thing. Also, you yourself mentioned that you were troubled at seeing the “normalization” of the practice, so obviously there are enough people seeing it as an issue that you have noticed it.
Also, you put too much value into the meaning of votes.
Again, I’d love if Lemmy got rid of the option to upvote/downvote. And just for background, I once had a guy who would take screen shots of how many dowvotes I had on my posts, then post that screenshot, and laugh about it and use that to argue to others that they should just bully me off of Lemmy. I won’t say his name here, but he still mentions my name a lot. lol
Learn to deal with criticism.
There’s criticism, and then there’s the weird stalker types that seem to be on Lemmy that become serial downvoters. There are even some that create downvoting bots. Yeah, bots just to downvote. That has also been an issue that admin had to work on.
No voting at all, would solve it though!
Removed by mod
Yeah, we need to make sure people like you and ideas like yours infest as few communities as possible.
That sounds like the very censorship you seem to be arguing against though.
I’m going to ignore you now.
Of course, you’re free to ignore me. That is the right attitude! I would prefer people “ignore” and “block” rather than become serial downvoters.
Thanks, friend! :)
You would like to get rid of votes? The one thing that differentiated Reddit and now Lemmy? Why are you not using Facebook or Discord or any other platforms focused on positive community building?
And no I did not target this person. As I have explained I scrolled hot and Lemmy doesn’t have enough content yet to idk “drown out the noise”
If you think downvotes are the one thing that differentiate Lemmy, you’re an idiot.
Yes, I would like to get rid of votes. Because people weaponize them, and people like you take advantage of them. If you don’t agree with a community, just block it and move on. You don’t need to go in and just do a long stream of downvoting.
In a perfect world, voting works. But lemmy seems to draw a crowd that seems to harbor more obsessive types who can’t let something go.
Brah, you don’t even like the community you’re mad about! lol But you seem mad that now you aren’t allowed to downvote there anymore.
The mod even gave you a chance to be unbanned, and you decided not to take him up on it. You brought it here to see opinions, and most of the opinions are that you are in the wrong. It is what it is.
Brah, it’s bad form to just go into a community and start downvoting every single article you see. YDI.
I’m seeing more and more Lemmys doing that to try to control their narrative. Not cool.
But what if you read each article, find it’s a pile of shit, then downvote it?
Why do you keep sticking around and reading shit you don’t like? And for most, you can tell by the title if it’s gonna be something you are interesting in reading.
How about you read it, think to yourself, “that fucking sucks” and move on. Why do you have to rate it with a vote? Why are you trying to let people know you didn’t like it?
Well idk it’s a totally wild and completely stupid scenario, but there’s scientific article that looks interesting which pops up on All, then you read it and realise it does not hold up so you downvote. Then you look at the community and see a horrible post saying meat cures cancer and you downvote that and then when you try to comment on another interesting one, you’re banned. Based on a true story.
Then move on. Seems like that community wouldn’t be a good fit for you anyway, so no loss. Basically you are missing out on reading articles that annoy you. Wear the ban as a badge of honor, not shame.
I’ve been banned–and I am not even kidding or exaggerating–for “it’s Universal Monk!” Yes, banned because of my fucking reputation. Not because of anything I did in the community, never posted article, commented or even voted. Many communities I’ve never even heard of. But I’ve seen reasons of “UM,” “Troll Universal Monk”, etc.
And you know what horrible horrible thing I did? I proudly voted third party (socialist) in the election. Which is more accepted now, but a few months ago, I was called a traitor daily. Still called that regularly. lol
So yeah, some mods and posters are power-hungry babies. But for the most part if they are like that, then you don’t wanna be part of that community anyway.
I hated Biden (before it was cool to do!). So I stayed out of communities that kissed his ass. I didn’t read articles that kissed is ass. Why would I go to some pro-Biden community if I’m anti-Biden?
I think Furries are fucking crazy. So I don’t go to Furry communities or get upset if I were somehow banned from one.
Why would you go to some pro-meat community, if you are anti-meat? You know every article is going to annoy you. You should have blocked it even before you got banned.
Which is why I’m all for votes being gone entirely. That way none of it matters…because none of it matters. :)
Then your in the wrong community
We are supposed to only go to communities we agree with? Fuck is it with these safe spaces. How are people this fragile on the internet of all places.
It’s not being fragile, if you don’t like a place and you keep going back to the place you don’t like… something is wrong.
It is being fragile, your community would not survive open debate about the scientific validity of your ridiculous ideology and you clearly know it
not survive open debate about the scientific validity of your ridiculous ideology and you clearly know it
Bring it. No epidemiology. Let’s fucking go.
https://hackertalks.com/post/11881199
We can start with the textbooks:
We can do a reading club, chapter by chapter?
None of these sources are even remotely scientifically valid, several other users have already explained in great detail just on this post. You’re pushing dangerous medical misinformation and you have no excuse for not knowing it, you’re either an incurable moron of the highest order or deliberately lying. Either way you should be ashamed of yourself.
Context for the cancer thing. Btw I did not downvote everything but that should not matter
I saw that too and was fucking appalled. The kinds of mental gymnastics needed to call something that is itself carcinogenic “the cure for cancer” is fucking ludicrous.
This would be a great discussion post for the !carnivore@dubvee.org community
https://www.dietdoctor.com/red-meat-and-colon-cancer-the-evidence-remains-weak
TLDR The evidence against red meat is extremely weak, and has tremendous healthy user bias, especially since most people in epidemiology surveys have a carbohydrate metabolism. For a true comparison against carnivore eaters we would need to see a ketogenic metabolism.
Its kind of difficult to start discussions in your communities if I’m already auto-banned for downvoting a couple of things that pop up in your all feed…
I’m happy to remove the ban if you agree with the community guidelines. Mainly be respectful of other choices, not downvoting everything you see
Don’t worry about it, I will respect your choice to ban me and block all of your communities
The way you handle your communities coupled with the type of posts that appear there make this all seem like its just pro-meat industry propaganda. I suppose if your goal is to spread shitty illogical arguments that could affect other peoples health, then banning dissent is a good idea. Keep on fighting the good fight!
BTW I’m still 50/50 that your are a bot, and about 30/70 that you are simply a person who works in the agriculture lobbying arena.
You should be banning these posts that are clearly bullshit instead of users who recognize bullshit when they see it.
shitty illogical arguments that could affect other peoples health
Examples please? I absolutely want to change people’s health. I want to improve it! 93% of westerners have diminished metabolic health. 1 billion people have type 2 diabetes. There is no where to go but up!
You should be banning these posts that are clearly bullshit instead of users who recognize bullshit when they see it.
What is your criteria for acceptable nutritional information?
Recommending people in general increase meat consumption, especially those in america, is absurd and dangerous. If you have your way you will shorten lives and cause awful health conditions.
Just because this carnivore diet seems to suit you, doesnt mean it suits other people. You are no different than militant vegans in my opinion.
increase meat consumption, especially those in america, is absurd and dangerous.
You said you were triggered in another comment, do you want to talk about why I don’t think this is dangerous and in fact very beneficial for humanity?
trigger warning nutrition
The single biggest cause of metabolic disease is elevated carbohydrate consumption. Carnivore by virtue of having no carbohydrates is the single fastest way for metabolically unwell people to realize better metabolic health. This is a strict form of a ketogenic diet, which reduces blood sugar, brings down insulin levels - resolving many of the metabolic chronic diseases killing millions - hyper tension, type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease… all of these are rooted in poor metabolic health.
Keeping insulin levels low is the key to improving the health of humanity. There are a few approaches here - from whole foods, single ingredient foods, to ketogenic (carnivore being a subset).
They only major difference between Keto and carnivore is the removal of plants, which reduces the carbohydrate load, simplifies the food plan - makes it easier to maintain. Some people have plant allergies, sensitivities - such as gluten sensitivity, allergies, ibs, chrones, etc. Carnivore reduces gut inflammation for these people.
Is Carnivore necessary for great health? No. Does Carnivore cause bad health? No. Carnivore can be part of a very strong health plan.
Carnivores on the whole are not militant, we don’t generally get bothered by what other people eat. For myself I just care about informed decisions for those in my life. I present the best data I have, and its up to them to make their own choices, which I respect.
I would agree with you if I thought the most important aspect of a healthy diet were convenience or efficiency.
The aspects I am concerned about are length and quality of life. I do not believe studies show that a carnivore diet like you propose would be beneficial for either of those things.
I accept that not everyone will thrive on the same diet but ideally I would expect people to choose the best options that optimize for long term health.
The type of diet you recommend would only be optimal for those who do care about speed and efficiency of a diet, like those who are dangerously overweight, and even in those cases it wouldnt be the recommended diet long term once the danger is mitigated.
No. Fuck off with that shit. Already blocked that community. Thank you 😘 byeeeee!
Right, this is why you are not a good fit for that community - we can’t have a meaningful discussion.
Hence why I’m not in that community and blocked it. You are the one here evangelizing me for it 😂
Never waste a opportunity for outreach and to clear up misunderstandings. Y’all are here disparaging me and my words - which is a invitation for dialog.
Seems like someone’s salty about their post being at -11 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don’t think YDI or anything but just block the community and move on with your life…
YDI.
If you go around down voting everything, that’s not acting in good faith. Down voting the post, yeah, that’s one thing and it’s perfectly fine to down vote posts that are (to your best knowledge) misinformation.
The problem starts when you go into comment sections and down vote everything. See, if you’re doing that, it’s ignoring whether or not the comments are on for the post. Disagreement isn’t a valid reason to vote bomb an entire comment section. That’s what an asshole does.
Now, I have done plenty of down voting in that community. But no blanket knee jerk vote sprees. That’s where you cross from reasonable opposition into just trying to fuck with people.
It doesn’t even matter what the topic is for this community. It isn’t about validating or invalidating your opinion of subject, it’s about whether or not the mod action was justified based on your actions. And they absolutely were.
The community in question is entirely dedicated to dangerous medical misinformation, their purpose for existence is fundamentally bad-faith and should be drowned in downvotes
I disagree.
While I absolutely question the carnivore diet as a general thing, the way the community is handled has shifted from the way it started. Back in the beginning, I was in the same frame of thought you are, and said so directly in the community (eventually).
But jet in specific, and other users, have shifted to better citations, and a more frequent way of presenting their opinions. I do not believe they engage in misinformation currently. If I believed so, I would be obligated by my personal ethical code to attempt to have admins shut it down. Can’t say it would succeed, but I’d have to try.
Since jet in specific is very good about putting in disclaimers that people should approach the diet with care, I definitely can’t call it bad faith. Acknowledgement of the diet being limited in scope for the general population is good faith discussion by default.
Again, I definitely disagree with the claims made by some of the people in linked videos. What they recommend doesn’t match current best practices, and is usually extrapolated from data that is specific to limited circumstances and applied generally, which is very flawed. There’s also non medical issues with attempting a pure carnivorous diet, but I doubt those would be relevant to this.
As such, I still maintain that down voting everything willy nilly is a justifiable reason for bans, which is what this community is about.
If you feel that the community is dangerous, harmful, or otherwise shouldn’t be accessible, throwing down votes at everything is not the appropriate method to address the issue. And that’s what the post was about, not whether or not the community should exist. If you genuinely feel that strongly about the dangers involved, you should be contacting the admins of the instance and explaining that to them.
absolutely question the carnivore diet as a general thing
I’m sure you have seen enough snippits by now to know all that I know about carnivore. The ketogenic diet is probably the single most studied eating pattern in all the literature (its not that keto is special, its that nutritional research is so very sparse)
Where does the outstanding concern come from? The ketogenic aspect (lack of carbohydrates)? Or fibre? Or vitamin C? I’m happy to try to close the gap.
I even have blood work I can share - nothing is off limits for science.
That was the only comment I voted on. Because I did not see the person being helpful based on their posts. I did not vote spree the other comment sections. I did vote on the posts… I would not call that downvoting of posts in the community kneejerk. The statement the mod gave is not true I checked to make absolutely sure.
Thank you for elaborating though.
Everything I downvoted was because I genuinely do not think it’s good.
That’s what you said in your post. Everything implies that you voted on more than one thing.
I’m not sure why you would down vote multiple posts instead of blocking a community, but it does change things a little as long as it wasn’t blanket voting where you just went through and hit the down button arbitrarily on a long line of posts. If that’s what you were doing, it doesn’t change the YDI part, because that’s inevitably going to get you banned from any community at some point. The question would become one of threshold; how many did you arbitrarily down vote rather than the fact of doing it at all.
If you just down voted them as you came across them scrolling the all feed, you’d only have hit maybe five or six based on the slow posting of that community. So, if it’s more than that, you had to have gone to the community directly specifically to down vote, and that’s pretty shitty behavior, ban worthy at that.
If it was less than that, then jet absolutely power tripped. You can’t determine the intent of the user from less than a handful of votes, particularly if they’re recent posts.
But, hey, that’s what this community is about, figuring out where the boundaries of what lemmy as a whole consider acceptable mores of moderation and user behavior.
No I did go to the community to check it out, that part tracks, yes I downvoted a few posts. The cooking stuff I downvoted I also do not agree with (the beef chart excludes the head from the edible parts, the ribeye cooling one is in my opinion way over the top, a simple cast iron skillet does the job. The blended steak, meat bagels and meat cinnamon rolls I don’t think are a good idea. The brisquet price comparison I also do not agree with as I think that price does not make that big of a difference in comparison to the way to cook it, but on that one I definitely get how I should have been more open minded).
I think the interesting part is wether I should be allowed to be in opposition on most of a community or not. I think that we are a community on Lemmy as a whole and that it is ok to discuss things. I can still see why brigading is problematic. Then it comes down to the definition of good faith which is arguable and there it is interesting wether there can be good faith in participating in a community whilst being opposed to the main lines. I am not even in fundamental opposition about eating (and enjoying!) meat so I would have guessed that I acted in good faith. I guess I could see why jet did get offended and I guess I take a more lenient approach on the two Comms I mod. That being said there is probably significantly less contestation around the communities I mod.
Assuming honesty in all that (and that is what I’m assuming, no reason to do otherwise), I definitely call that good faith. Absolutely.
I also tend to think that opposition can be done with respect and decency (with the glaring exception of bigotry that deserves no respect, but that’s off topic and I only mention it to hopefully avoid the watabouts). I think my opposition to some of the posts and comments in the carnivore communities have been done respectfully, I’ve at least tried to be respectful.
Mind you, it’s been a while since I interacted much there, since I’ve pretty much said all I can say without beating a dead horse, which I prefer to avoid.
Also, I really appreciate the way you’ve approached this entire discussion here. A lot of folks just want validation of their emotional response to whatever mod action they’re posting about, so it’s really cool when people fully engage in wrangling with the broader subject of how to approach moderation and user interactions with mods. At risk of going off topic, this community has changed my approach to moderation both on and off lemmy. I’ve learned a lot here about when to act quickly and decisively, and when to take a more gentle approach.
That being said there is probably significantly less contestation around the communities I mod.
That’s fair, I’m happy to unban you if I have your word that you will be less hostile going forward. Yes - I consider downvoting to be hostility
The Carnivore community gets lots of negative attention, right now we are transitioning to a new instance so all the previous blocks people had don’t work and its a sensitive time.
No, if downvotes with things I don’t agree with are considered hostile I don’t think it’s a good idea. I don’t think I want to interact with this carnivore sub on an ongoing basis but I was interested in wether general participation on Lemmy regardless of the community is welcomed or if bubble building is the new meta.
Pretty sure any community would consider it hostile if you only downvote and never upvote in that comm
You could probably be just fine down voting only if you did it judiciously. Down voting a weeks worth of posts in a day is always going to look spammy.
Fair enough, i’m glad you have the resolution you wanted from this YPTB post.
YDI
You went to a community you disagree with and downvoted almost everything that was there. Sounds like probable trolling to me.
I went to the community because a post from it crossed my hot posts page. I did disagree with the post and subsequently checked out the community.
But then you proceed to downvote every post in the community. That’s where you went wrong. You should have realised that you’ll likley disagree with almost anything posted there and should have just blocked it.
You should have realised that you’ll likley disagree with almost anything posted there and should have just blocked it.
And I wish more Lemmy people understood this!
Surely we need to build more communities insulated from disagreement. The whole point of lemmy is to circle jerk each other right?
“OMG YOU AGREE WITH ME? OH WOW YOU AGREE WITH ME TOO?! FUCK IT FEELS SO GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!”
Pathetic.
Disagreement would require some level of discourse, a proposition supported by data and argument - Just driving around the city and throwing eggs on everybody isn’t much of a disagreement
None of that is required for a disagreement. I disagree that you should be running communities, but after seeing the communities you do run I really don’t think it will matter much either way.
Oh I forgot, we’re supposed to allow people to be asshole trolls just so they feel better about their own worthless, meaningless, sexless lives.
Projecting much? I’m sorry you haven’t found intimacy in some time but that doesnt mean everyone else isn’t fucking regularly.
Yeah, ok, sure buddy.
Lemmy is already like this, even more so than Reddit. The fact that people come here because they think Reddit is right-wing is hilarious to me. Reddit is one of most leftist places online. And extreme about it. The fact that people come here because they think Reddit is “right-leaning” shows you just how insulated people want to be by coming here.
Most people stay here because they want more extreme insulation. The few that come here thinking it’s more open and less censorship find out real quick, that’s not true. I saw a post in a casual non-political community about a guy talking about taking a walk and enjoying the weather.
Comments immediately combusted into posters talking about Trump and Musk. LMAO
The community in question is entirely dedicated to dangerous medical misinformation, they deserve worse than downvotes
They down voted misinformation. Isn’t that the ‘correct’ way to use the down vote button?
Edit: The fact that someone down voted this comment is hysterical.
There is no point to downvote very old poss. If you to a profile and downvote dozens of posts it’s spam and most admin will not allowed
If it is all misinformation and I want to reduce its visibility, why does volume of down votes matter?
I mean the whole idea of ‘down voting too much’ is that the down votes, which are basically instant after reading a post or comment, are done in a short period of time. If someone takes a few minutes to browse a community to see if maybe a couple of the terrible posts are outliers and vote as they go, is that really any different than down voting them when they are noticed coming through a feed organically?
Note that nobody cares about the frequency of up votes.
If it is all misinformation and I want to reduce its visibility
You could block it. That would reduce your visibility to it completely.
it is all misinformation
If you think it’s all misinformation but you don’t block the community (or even post your correct information), at some point you are just wasting your time.
People don’t scroll more than 1 hour a feed. That mean there is no point of downvoting a 9 hours old post that did not reach any top or active posts
If there is no point because it won’t be seen then there would be no negative impact from the downvotes, and punishing someone for downvoting ‘old’ misinformation would be silly.
I downvote misinformation because if someone comes across the community later they are going to see those old posts too. Same reason for downvoting a 5 minute old post as it would for a 5 day old post, misinformation is misinformation.
People don’t go directly in a community. They only interact if they find posts in the all feed and interact with individual posts
If you believe that, then why is it a problem?
We are focused on health and lifestyle while trying to eat zero carb bioavailable foods.
LOL what a joke, my ancestors lived on a diet of almost all bison, but they still needed other foods like nuts and berries and grains. They ate pemmican more then they ate fresh meat. The thing is that once they had to transition to domesticated animals like cows and pigs, the general health went downhill fast. All red meat is not the same.
Eating a lot of meat is not good for you, science has proven this time and time again. The only reason my ancestors were able to live on a full diet of bison is because they ate the whole freakin animal and perserved the meat with berries and nuts (pemmican)
Never heard of pemmican before, thanks for sharing your knowledge!
LOL what a joke, my ancestors lived on a diet of almost all bison
I highly doubt this. Meat in prehistoric societies was pretty hard to come by. When you exist on the same plane as the animals, you’re subject to all the stuff they plan to do to make sure they’re not going to get eaten. It’s a hell of a lot easier and safer just to grow some plants or do some fishing or something.
I won’t say it never happened that someone’s ancestor’s society was just killing it and eating bison burgers all the time but the diet where you can eat large animal meat is almost entirely a modern invention caused by our overflow of wealth and productivity.
Eating a lot of meat is not good for you, science has proven this time and time again.
Eating a lot of meat in the modern day will straight-up kill you in the long run (literally), because the meat is full of hormones, pesticides, antibiotics, disease from the conditions they were kept in, and God knows what else. Societies in the ancient world that sorted out how to eat meat consistently (one prime example being domesticating cattle successfully) started exploding across the landscape and overtaking all their neighbors, it’s a pretty good formula as long as the meat is healthy for you.
Meat in prehistoric societies was pretty hard to come by.
Ice Age humans would be hard pressed to find plants, especially when crossing the artic land bridge to the Americans.
Right… so the carnivore community is about eating the whole freaking animal. Tip to tail
Hope they don’t forget to cradle the balls while they eat the shaft
Hot dogs are delicious.
I am pretty sure the carnivore community is just a big troll. Maybe it is some confused people, but it seems on Lemmy more likely to just be people taking the piss out of vegans.
But not like in a cheeky and fun way, more cruel and tragic
At this time and age you can expect anything to be serious. Like biden being cloned
It’s not a troll, it’s a earnest eating pattern. It has nothing to do with vegans, the entire world doesn’t rotate around vegans. People can do things independently of what vegans do.
The Inuit didn’t exist for thousands of years in the arctic circle eating only animals to spite vegans.
The Inuit didn’t exist for thousands of years in the arctic circle eating only animals to spite vegans.
Their population is sparse and they had absolutely no energy to spare to expand or rise up in the world, they were too busy with the incredible energy expenditure that is hunting. They didn’t choose to do this as a success option, they just have no other option because nothing will grow in their environment, so it’s hunt or starve.
But they survived - With great health according to the reports of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilhjalmur_Stefansson who observed the population pre-westernized.
According to the methodologically worthless reports of one guy who died in the 60s, “i ate this and I’m feeling fine, trust me bro”
It took me all of 30 seconds in the linked wiki article to find this
“Arctic physiologist Kåre Rodahl has written that Stefansson’s diet on his arctic explorations should not be confused with the Eskimo diet as the Eskimos in addition to meat and fat also “eat considerable quantities of entrails and plant food in the form of land plants and sea algae” and during the summer, marine algae makes up 50% of their vitamin C supply.[26]”
Scientific literature isn’t valid because its old?
Evaluations of pre-westernize cultures has value to us today.
There is no scientific literature related to the guy you mentioned and you know it, I already quote your own article link debunking your claims
Any type of person that survives in a harsh environment where death is an ever-present outcome will generally be strong and healthy on an individual basis. It’s natural selection. If they’re not hardy, they don’t survive, so the ones that are left are healthy.
I’m not saying that there’s no way to eat exclusively meat and have it work out. I’m just saying that (a) you’re choosing an example that doesn’t apply all that well to making an argument about how to eat in the modern world (b) the industrially farmed meat that’s available in the modern world, definitely in the US at least, is pure poison compared to what any ancient society you’re studying was eating.
Every study in the modern world that I’m aware of has drawn conclusions of severe negative health consequences from eating too much of the type of meat that’s available to us now.
Every study in the modern world that I’m aware of has drawn conclusions of severe negative health consequences from eating too much of the type of meat that’s available to us now.
Would you like to see more data?
- Meat supplementation improves growth, cognitive, and behavioral outcomes in Kenyan children - 2007
- Total Meat Intake is Associated with Life Expectancy: A Cross-Sectional Data Analysis of 175 Contemporary Populations - 2022
- Behavioral Characteristics and Self-Reported Health Status among 2029 Adults Consuming a “Carnivore Diet” - 2021
- Egg Consumption and Mortality: A Prospective Cohort Study of Australian Community-Dwelling Older Adults - 2025
First link, study does nothing to support the idea that a primarily carnivorous diet is in any way better and doesn’t claim to, simply that higher calorie and nutrient intake results in more/faster growth in children.
Second link, the study also does nothing to support a primarily carnivorous diet, from their conclusion: “Meat intake, or its adequate replacement, should be incorporated into nutritional science to improve human life expectancy.”
Third link, actually relevant to carnivore diet! And it’s a sample size of just over 2k, a timeline of less than 2 years, and entirely self-reported data with no external verification whatsoever.
Fourth link, also makes no claims whatsoever regarding a primarily carnivorous diet. From the conclusion: “Our study found that, for relatively healthy older adults, the consumption of eggs 1–6 times per week was associated with a lower risk of all-cause mortality and CVD mortality compared to those who rarely or never eat eggs. No such potential benefit was observed with daily egg consumption.” So not only does it not even try to recomment a fully carnivorous dier, but it explicitly states that eating more eggs resulted in no increased health benefit
You clearly just googled “carnivore diet is healthy study” and posted the first four results that came up, you don’t give a shit about what’s actually true you’re just here to push an agenda
You clearly just googled “carnivore diet is healthy study” and posted the first four results that came up, you don’t give a shit about what’s actually true you’re just here to push an agenda
You do realize each of those link to a post I made for the paper with my notes for those papers.
If your not even going to try to engage in earnest discussion without disparaging me and my motives… I don’t think we are going to have a productive talk.
- Of course giving protein to Kenyan children is going to improve their performance at everything, that’s not surprising to me. People need protein and if you’re giving some of it to some of them who probably aren’t getting plenty of it already, it’ll help them. That doesn’t directly have a bearing on whether a first-world adult choosing to consume only meat is going to improve anything for them.
- Correlation is not causation, both meat consumption and overall life expectancy are going to be highly correlated with societal wealth. That’s not surprising to me, it doesn’t directly have a bearing on whether a first-world adult choosing to consume only meat is going to improve anything for them.
- That’s a social media survey of people self-reporting consuming a carnivore diet and asking them to self-report their health level. It’s not surprising to me that they self-report that the carnivore diet is having good effects for them.
- Correlation is not causation.
On average, participants who reported consuming meat regularly (three or more times per week) had more adverse health behaviours and characteristics than participants who consumed meat less regularly, and most of the positive associations observed for meat consumption and health risks were substantially attenuated after adjustment for body mass index (BMI). In multi-variable adjusted (including BMI) Cox regression models corrected for multiple testing, higher consumption of unprocessed red and processed meat combined was associated with higher risks of ischaemic heart disease (hazard ratio (HRs) per 70 g/day higher intake 1.15, 95% confidence intervals (CIs) 1.07–1.23), pneumonia (1.31, 1.18–1.44), diverticular disease (1.19, 1.11–1.28), colon polyps (1.10, 1.06–1.15), and diabetes (1.30, 1.20–1.42); results were similar for unprocessed red meat and processed meat intakes separately. Higher consumption of unprocessed red meat alone was associated with a lower risk of iron deficiency anaemia (IDA: HR per 50 g/day higher intake 0.80, 95% CIs 0.72–0.90). Higher poultry meat intake was associated with higher risks of gastro-oesophageal reflux disease (HR per 30 g/day higher intake 1.17, 95% CIs 1.09–1.26), gastritis and duodenitis (1.12, 1.05–1.18), diverticular disease (1.10, 1.04–1.17), gallbladder disease (1.11, 1.04–1.19), and diabetes (1.14, 1.07–1.21), and a lower IDA risk (0.83, 0.76–0.90).
https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-021-01922-9
That’s just the first random thing I found. Again, I am sure that a lot of that has to do with the low quality of the meat available in modern factory-farm-driven societies. I’m just saying that if you’re advocating for people eating meat, and they live in that type of society, they’re going to be fucking themselves up by eating lots of the type of meat that is available to them in that society.
That doesn’t directly have a bearing on whether a first-world adult choosing to consume only meat is going to improve anything for them.
Sure, everything is about context - Can someone be perfectly healthy without Carnivore? Yes, Absolutely.
Are there any nutritional deficiencies on Carnivore itself - not that I’m aware of
Are there a group of adults who have plant sensitivities / inflammation / allergies that benefit from carnivore? Yes
Now consider a modern adult with T2D (which is a billion people right now), carnivore by virtue of having zero carbohydrates is one of the best possible interventions for them to manage or even reverse their T2D
Correlation is not causation, both meat consumption and overall life expectancy are going to be highly correlated with societal wealth.
Great, I 100% agree, to your previous post about all the science being against red meat because of cancer risk, can you point out the non-correlated (non-epidemiology) that demonstrates this risk?
fucking themselves up by eating lots of the type of meat that is available to them in that society.
Context matters - Any dietary intervention is better then the sugar heavy, processed food, standard western diet. Even low grade factory farmed meat is better then pop-tarts and cheerios, yes?
If we want to quibble about which diet has optimal health outcomes - then we are already winning! I think most people would benefit from whole food (single ingredient), non processed, sustainably produced food for their diet.
Carnivore (as per my pinned going carnivore post https://hackertalks.com/post/5730540 ) is a option for people, which confers the benefits of simple keto, especially valuable to people who have unresolved issues on other interventions - so the elmination protocol aspect of carnivore has value clinically to those people.
They say that about every fash. It’s just a joke!
Unless the mod is straight up lying about you down voting everything in the thread: YTI.
The mod, Jet, has a shitty tool that considers someone to ‘down vote everything’ if someone down votes the single comment that Jet added to one of his own posts in his misinformation spreading communities as he explains here: https://lemmy.world/post/29364582/16948483
Currently it does not, if someone really dislikes a community enough to down vote a post and then go through the effort to open it and also down vote the only comment, it’s a strong signal they are not a good fit for the community
That’s right, if you open a single post by Jet in one of Jet’s misinformation communities you saw on All and down vote the post and Jet’s one comment that expands on the misinformation then you are accused of ‘down voting everything’ and banned from all of Jet’s communities. That includes seeing a single post in All, opening it and down voting the post and the comment.
the ban only applies if the account never comments, posts, or upvotes. A strictly negative interaction signal.
Though, even then a minimum threshold should be set. That’s just all kinds of stupid.
Not even sure the comment is needed, pretty sure somewhere else Jet said they banned if someone down voted without commenting. So either one or two votes gets you banned from a dozen, admittedly shitty, communities and is called systemic down voting or something like that.
OP downvoted every post in the comm. That’s not a shitty tool, that’s a shitty user
Edit: It’s hilarious how biased parent commentor is, that he downvoted me pointing out something simple and obvious.
Its embarrassing that you care about any votes at all.
It’s embarrassing you care about not being allowed to comment in one small section of the internet.
Good thing that’s not the point I’m making.
Holy moly I didn’t even know that existed or that anyone can (easily) see your votes. Let alone bots.
Votes are public info. Way too many lemmy users haven’t gotten that memo.
If I made a mistake and you want to participate in the community productively I’ll unban someone who asks and gives their word to maintain polite discourse.
Fuck your disingenuous call for civility, you don’t give a shit about productive discourse you’re just pushing a meat industry agenda
Are you implying down votes are impolite discourse? You need a thicker skin.
I’m not implying it - I’m saying it explicitly - 100% downvotes are negative. They are a signal that the content is bad for lemmy. They have a real chilling effect on people participating in smaller communities.
Your communities are terrible and burning them to the ground would be productive.
Thank you for making it clear the bot didn’t make a mistake
The bot doesn’t read intent, it just bans anyone who doesn’t agree with your misinformation.
I’m using a heuristic to approximate if a user will be a positive community member.
I’m sure there is room for improvement
You have demonstrated you would not be a good fit for the community.
Right now I don’t see a problem with the heuristics
Anyone who disagrees with you isn’t a good fit. That’s why almost all of the comments are you replying to your own posts.
Sometimes the trash takes itself out
The mod is straight up lying about dietary science in a way that will definitely get someone killed if taken at face value, dangerous misinformation deserves to be downvoted
Please tell me how I am the asshole :)
You are not the asshole. As I said in the above post, if you’re downvoting everything it’s the wrong community for you.
The community is !carnivore@dubvee.org if anyone is interested in participating
I should be explicit - I welcome opposing views, constructive debate, polite back and forth of data and ideas. That is what i live for, that is the power of lemmy.
What I don’t tolerate is hostility and making the community unfriendly to new posters. The intention is to create safe space for people to talk about carnivore, so attacking users either via antagonistic messages or downvoting their content isn’t going to work for me.
Well said!
You clearly do not welcome opposing views, you’re as dishonest about your moderation as you are about your “sources”
Your opposing view is just denial… Show me a non-epidemiological published paper on the dangers of a ketogenic metabolism or animal based foods… Change my mind please.
Every single source you’ve posted so far has either been completely unrelated to your claims or obviously methodologically flawed, I don’t need a study to prove you’re a lying sack of shit because you’ve already done the work for me
The community is !carnivore@dubvee.org if anyone is interested in participating
I would, but I’m instance banned from dubvee for being a Luigi supporter
I welcome opposing views, constructive debate, polite back and forth of data and ideas. That is what i live for, that is the power of lemmy.
Methinks you picked a bad instance for that :(
Refers to the Sidebar: “This is a community in the spirit of “Am I The Asshole” where people can post their own bans from lemmy or reddit or whatever and get some feedback from others whether the ban was justified or not.”
Edit: And I did not, I think if you search for audience on a public site it should be the deal that the public is invited to discuss and form opinions by voting. I think there might be some interesting things about micronutrients and wether it is feasible to get them in any way other than meat but the things I downvoted I do not agree with. Please have your bubble but as I said I actually love meat, so I am not by any means radical about that. I’m here to discuss wether the feddit (Lemmy) community deems an opinion on a topic differing from the main line of a community expressed through voting an offence or a valid participation in the topic of a community…
You downvoted 19 out of 22 posts, including stuff like how to cook a steak. 86% downvote rate on posts - probably only that low because i posted after your banning, so yeah, your a raging asshole - i was just trying to be polite.
You are a fragile snowflake, and your communities are garbage spewing propaganda.
garbage spewing propaganda.
That isn’t much for me to work with, you don’t like my communities fair enough, but you haven’t moved the discussion forward with any actionable idea, nothing for me to respond to. You don’t like me, ok - I don’t like you. Great, now we are even
Ah, but you gotta give him his platfrm to be an asshole, or you impede his right to FrEeZe PeAcH.
Actually, it’s weird, they look pretty chill:
https://lemvotes.org/user/Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
- Total post upvotes: 3
- Total post downvotes: 6
- Total comment upvotes: 2294
- Total comment downvotes: 63
Not sure what is triggering them, but if they have any real issues with my nutritional communities I want to address it constructively.
Judging from their comment history, they’re just your average right-winger, so the idea they aren’t allowed to express their opinion wherever and whenever they want is what triggered them, not the substance of your community.
The content on your communities is triggering me, as well is the way you treat people as a moderator. Apparently they are your communities to do what you wish with though so have at it.
I don’t think I’ll be taking any life advice from someone called the Steak and Butter Gal
I’d probably hit her up for barbecue advice, though.
Definitely, i bet they’d be as delicious as they are life threatening
