It’s wild.
I would say people in countries with poor or non-existent public education are more prone. The USA’s public education system was eviscerated in the 70’s I think.
I would say people in countries with poor or non-existent public education are more prone. The USA’s public education system was eviscerated in the 70’s I think.
As early as the 60s, but really the 80s. Through the 70s US had some of the best public education on the planet. The move to privatize education started in earnest under Reagan (in California, as governor), and then further under Reagan (and every president and congress to now).
Specifically:
• calling for an end to free tuition for state college and university students
• annually demanding 20 percent across-the-board cuts in higher education funding
• repeatedly slashing construction funds for state campuses
• engineering the firing of Clark Kerr, the highly respected president of the University of California
• declaring that the state “should not subsidize intellectual curiosity”
How the fuck do you come to the conclusion that you’re spending too much money on education
With Reagan, it was because Republicans at the time thought there would be too many educated poor people. One of his advisors (Roger Freeman) said:
“We are in danger of producing an educated proletariat…That’s dynamite! We have to be selective on who we allow [to go to college]…If not, we will have a large number of highly trained and unemployed people.”
He was basically worried about a revolution because of it.
Source: https://theintercept.com/2022/08/25/student-loans-debt-reagan/
There’s other sources if you don’t like the Intercept.
R E A G A N.
The Trump era began by ripping out the solar panels on the White House and tricking blue collars into voting against themselves.
It was, and is, fucking awful.
Easy
They are talking at the dinner table about doing things that are against my self interest. I don’t want those damn kids learning that. Therefore cut education
Rather that you know the market place of ideas that I espouse; as long as they match what I believe.
Just look at the GOP. They repeat garbage until their pawns believe it.
That last one hits hard. The state must subsidize intellectual curiosity. Intellectual curiosity gave us everything from electricity to modern governmental theory to the mathematics that would later turn out to allow wireless communications. Curiosity without a point is extremely valuable.
And it should be noted that even in late medieval Europe the state funded intellectual curiosity. The nobility were the state and many either were curious themselves or would patronize intellectuals
And people look at that and say, sure, I’ll vote for this guy.
It’s a self perpetuating spiral to hell.
By design. It’s a lot easier to fleece stupid people.
Perfectly stated.
No, we just have a larger presence on the internet relative to our share of the global population, meaning our idiocy is noticed a lot more often.
Call it the Florida Man effect, it’s not that other states don’t also have crazies, it’s just that Florida’s are more well documented and publicized.
The Simple answer is No. Every country has its fair share of loud and dumb.
The complicated answer is, the less education and the more propaganda, the more likely you are to believe dumb shit.
Studies have found ( for example ) conspiracy thinking correlates with extremist political beliefs, especially right wing political beliefs, across countries. That linked study found the effect was strengthened by lack of political control.
So countries with more political extremists, especially far right wing in media platforms, leads to more popular conspiracy theories.
We conclude that conspiracy mentality is associated with extreme left- and especially extreme right-wing beliefs, and that this non-linear relation may be strengthened by, but is not reducible to, deprivation of political control.
To add to this, radicalism spreads thru a social contagion effect and requires repeated reinforcement, and social media acts as a catalyst. However, local organizing also plays a vital role in the spread far-right extremism.
Here is an article I have written on my blog detailing how people become radicalized. I have ads turned off and do not benefit in any way from my blog.
One important section I’d like to share here is for the false ‘both sides’ arguments:
There is a stark difference in the means with which the two groups engage in acts of extremism. In a study evaluating Left-Wing and Right-Wing domestic extremism between 1994 and 2020, there was one fatality as the result of Left-Wing extremism, versus 329 fatalities resulting from Far Right extremism in that 25 year period. [5] The Far-Right movement is the oldest and most deadly form of domestic terrorism in the United States, and The Anti-Defamation League Center on Extremism found that the Far-Right is responsible for 98% of extremist murders in the U.S. [24] Furthermore, for nearly every year since 2011, Far-Right terrorist attacks/plots have accounted for over half of all terror attacks/plots in the United States. [21] In the U.S., Right-Wing extremism was responsible for two-thirds of all failed, foiled, or successful terror attacks in 2019, and was responsible for 90% of attacks in the first half of 2020 alone. [21] Since 2013, Far-Right extremism has been responsible for more terror attacks/plots than the Left-Wing, ethnonationalism, or religiously motivated attacks/plots. [21]That was a really interesting read, thank you for sharing.
The blog comes across a lot more professional than expected, cheers
That is the finest example of begging the question I have seen in years! It’s really rare to see in the wild.
Oooh, could you expand on that? I’ve always had a tough time identifying begging the question and a real example would help.
You are MOST welcome, it took me ages to make it click, this is the best example I have found:
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How come the iPhone so popular?
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Because it’s the hottest thing on the market right now.
Ha! I’d discarded that as just a tautology and went looking for something else.
TYVM.
YAMBB
you and me both bro
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Eating Pork will slowly turn your heart inside out
Now I want to know what they think happens when it’s half-way inside out.
Low educated people are more prone to being superstitious. End of conversation.
E: Oh, right, it also gets much worse if you hardcore propagandize it.
Educated people are harder to control. It’s why Republicans attack education at every opportunity.
It’s why fascists always attack education at every opportunity.
Yeah, that’s what I said.
That’s what I said, too! We should be friends.
I really think it’s a question of the sheer amount that is aimed at them through propaganda foreign and domestic. There’s definitely a huge, deliberate push to destabilize the US.
This 100%
Yes we are! It’s a result of all the subliminal messaging we receive from our kitchen appliances.
Yvan eht nioj
Nice try, refrigerator.
That’s why you cook everything on a wood fire in the middle of your kitchen.
Make sure you punch a hole in the roof for the smoke!
IDK if it’s that or just the fact that there’s both a lot of us and a great sense of nationalism instilled in us from a very young age. I’ve been to Mt. Rushmore twice. Only recently did I learn about how it was a sacred site to the native people that we promised to leave alone, before stealing it and blowing it to hell.
What I’m getting at is that we’re taught that America is the greatest nation on the planet, and we’re encouraged to be loud about that statement. So when a certain group of people in the government who are also very loud about their beliefs start saying some things that might sound completely bonkers to a foreigner, a lot of people find themselves agreeing purely because they like the attitude of the people talking.
Visiting Rushmore as a non-American is even weirder than you imagine.
The levels of over the top blatantly performative “patriotism” is quite bizarre to be surrounded by.
And the suspicious looks we got for not participating enthusiastically was discomforting (no, I’m not going to recite a pledge of allegiance to your country. Why would you expect me to?)
Yeah sorry about that. They’re similarly awful to live near.
And the reality is Mt Rushmore is mostly going to be visited by people like that and foreigners. Mt Rushmore is one of the principal sacred sites of the American civil religion. Treat them like religious pilgrims because they kinda were, but they don’t even realize it. The pledge of allegiance is a prayer to adherents.
You think brainwashing may have something to do with it?
Yeah that’s essentially what I wanted to describe.
I agree. Definitely brainwashing.
You can read “The Paranoid Style In American Politics” from 1964 for some insight: https://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/
American politics has often been an arena for angry minds. In recent years we have seen angry minds at work mainly among extreme right-wingers, who have now demonstrated in the Goldwater movement how much political leverage can be got out of the animosities and passions of a small minority. But behind this I believe there is a style of mind that is far from new and that is not necessarily right-wing. I call it the paranoid style simply because no other word adequately evokes the sense of heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratorial fantasy that I have in mind. In using the expression “paranoid style” I am not speaking in a clinical sense, but borrowing a clinical term for other purposes. I have neither the competence nor the desire to classify any figures of the past or present as certifiable lunatics. In fact, the idea of the paranoid style as a force in politics would have little contemporary relevance or historical value if it were applied only to men with profoundly disturbed minds. It is the use of paranoid modes of expression by more or less normal people that makes the phenomenon significant.
It’s written at a higher than 6th grade target, so it might be a challenge for anyone who’s not used to that. Please give it a good faith effort to read.
Thinking about it, the low literacy rate in the US might be an aggravating factor. Something like half of US adults cannot read at a 6th grade level. That’s going to hurt their ability to deal with complex topics.
It’s written at a higher than 6th grade target, so it might be a challenge for anyone who’s not used to that. Please give it a good faith effort to read
You know, you lose a lot of people with comments like that, talking down to everyone. You’ve provided a source that makes a lot of good points, but that’s some alienating phrasing that’ll make people feel you’re elitist.
On the one hand, you’re right.
I wrote that bit because when I was reading the linked article, it felt harder to read and understand than what I’m used to. So it wasn’t really coming from malicious elitism.
On the other hand, I want to live in a world where people don’t feel insulted (even when it was by accident, like here!) and just completely stop listening. I know I do it too, but it sucks.
Especially with the “elitism” facet. Sometimes other people actually are better than us on whatever topic. That’s okay. Like if we were talking about math and you were like “This uses some complex algorithms so it might be hard to follow if you haven’t done more than algebra in a few years” I’m not going to be mad. What would I even be mad about?
I’m sorry for assuming your intentions were less than innocent and positive. I also want to live in that sort of world, and I hope it didn’t seem like I was jumping on your case or calling you a jerk. I just think it’s important to choose our words in a way that encourages people to read. Too often people think they’re bad at reading or math or something and so they avoid it, when it should be more like singing; it doesn’t matter if it sounds good, we sing as a manner of expression. Reading should be for everyone. But, I was misguided, and you weren’t disagreeing with that notion, and so I’m sorry.
It is very rare for anyone on the internet to apologize or admin fault. Well done. Thank you. I understand your intent and I’m not mad. Apology accepted.
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Oh no. Telling the truth alienates all of the idiots? We should really coddle them more, because that’s what’s important- their feelings.
Thinking about it, the low literacy rate in the US might be an aggravating factor.
“Read at a 6th grade level”
I thought it worked like, when you know how to read, you know how to read, and if you don’t, you won’t.
There are different reading levels, but I don’t know a lot about them because I’m not in education.
You can probably recognize it even if you never thought about it before. “See spot run” or “Green eggs and ham” are very simple texts. Something like “the Great Gatsby” or “the Hobbit” are more complex, and a 2nd grader would struggle to read them even if they technically know how to read.
Technical manuals, works on a specialist topic, or … my knowledge fails me a little here, but like more complicated novels, may be more advanced. More advanced in vocabulary, sentence structure, and things like symbolism, metaphor, or whatever cool shit House of Leaves was doing.
I don’t know how legit this site is, but it seems to cover the topic https://www.weareteachers.com/reading-levels/
I think this is a sample of a text written at the 6th grade level https://www.oxfordonlineenglish.com/english-level-test/reading . I looked it up when that article about how most adults can’t read and comprehend at that level was going around.
The Great Gatsby is shit, and the Hobbit is even worse. It doesn’t affect the situation here, but just wanted to make sure we’re on the same page.
So reading level is basically a stupidity meter. If you can read this text, you’re a moron. But you’re less of a moron if you can read this text.
I don’t think we’re really on the same page. Literacy and intelligence aren’t the same thing. But if you take nothing else away from this, I think you got the “higher reading levels are more complex” thing. Maybe.
Also I think you have a typo and one of your
canshould becan'tBold of you to assume I have a point, and that’s not a typo. That’s the duality of existence.
I think there may be a factor of sample size; There’s something like 40 million Canadians, 40 million Australians, 60 million British, and 340 million Americans. So if you take a random sample of English speech on any topic, it’s statistically most likely to be from an American.
You forgot Russia, india & china
No I didn’t. India might be an asterisk.
I would also add things we consider conspiracy like UFO’s have been seen all over the world just other countries usually have a religious or spiritual reason for the sightings and thus they don’t become a conspiracy just part of their everyday life. Look up Jacques Vallee he does great research into this.
The anti-vax movement is alot bigger in the US than any other western country, so yeah.
That’s basically the answer.
No. An old colleague of mine is on LinkedIn non-stop posting crazy QAnon shit and RT headlines. Anti-vax more-or-less started in the UK with the Andrew Wakefield affair and it seems to be super-popular in Australia too. Conspiracy Theory kind of helps people rationalise the absolute chaotic mess of the world we live in by reducing it to simple narratives where a defined enemy is out to get us.
It’s easier to think everyone is out to get you. Than that you are just an insignificant self sabotaging fuck up. Not even on the radar of the elder gods
I think that the distrust of governments and generally those in power is a world-wide phenomenon. But I personally don’t think that it is unwarranted. Corruption, abuses of power, and conspiracies are widespread.
Now explain why the conspiracy theorists always side with fascist rulership.
What do you mean? Can you describe what you mean with ‘fascist rulership’? Then maybe I can try.
For example… people in Mexico many people suspect that politicians have associations with drug dealers, and many believe believe that particular bureaucratic systems (such as handing out public infrastructure projects) are exploited to distribute funds in ways that benefit those in power and their friends, these people I would classify as “conspiracy theorists”, and in many cases they have been correct. You think that these people will always side with fascist rulership?
Fascist as in the US actively supporting and financing terrorism in countries it wants control over, historically. Like the Contras, that type of fascism.
And I think that being suspicious has been co-opted by the right wing, yes.
Fascist as in the US actively supporting and financing terrorism in countries it wants control over, historically.
Isn’t this a conspiracy theory? I think that the official position of the US is that they are not financing terrorists, and many of their military actions have been performed to defend citizens from their ruler’s human rights violations. Isn’t the Cuban embargo officially there to protect the Cubans against human rights violations? I think that arguing otherwise makes one a conspiracy theorist.
I am not saying this to argue, I am trying to explain what I understand with conspiracy theory - someone who is skeptical about the official narrative, and believes that those in power will not always be transparent and honest to the public.
And I think that being suspicious has been co-opted by the right wing, yes.
I am aware of the “drain the swamp” rhetoric, that there was a QAnon, anti-vax, and other more fringe theories. But I think that this is a sub-set of conspiracy theorizing that is amplified by the media. Many conspiracy theorists are investigative journalists and critics of governments. And many conspiracy theories have ended up being true. I don’t think that critical thought and skepticism is an exercise that only right-wingers should participate in.
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Literally Sandinistas and Contras. Literally one of the world’s most egregious and “oh shit we got caught” moments in US history. Iran-Contras affair doesn’t ring a bell, does it? Why don’t you start there for both our sakes.
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Home grown conspiracy theorists are basically all fascist, yes. That whole segment of knowledge, if you can call it that, was astropaved by the right wing decades ago. Let’s put it this way, Alex Jones isn’t voting left. There is always a big bad wolf that you can’t see, and the only cure is voting right.
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It rings a bell but I am not familiar with the details, I will look into it but I can’t address it right away. I am well aware that the US is an imperialist nation that has committed and continues to commit horrible acts all over the world. But the point is that this is not the official narrative of the US government. They may give some concessions about what occurred in the past, but the official narrative about what is happening now is always that they and their friends are the good guys.
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I am not from the US and the question is about conspiracy theories in other countries. If the question means whether Americans are more prone to believe US-conspiracy theories, then yes, simply because they are much more likely to be aware of them. Many people in other countries don’t consume as much media in English and might have no idea who Jeffrey Epstein was. So they probably have no opinion on whether there was foul play on his dead. But I think that if you talk to someone in Mexico and tell them the story of Epstein, most will agree that there was foul play involved. I am telling you this from my personal experience, at least within my circle but I think it expands more generally. We have a general distrust of the government and law enforcement, and so a story in which foul play is involved to silence someone else resonates. It happens all the time! Journalists are being killed all the time around here to silence them, and very often they are being critical of people in power… Is it really that unwarranted to be suspicious?
Those are fair points- I’m not native US either, just to make clear, and I understand what you’re saying. It’s kind of like, better safe than sorry? There is an evolutionary advantage in beings suspicious, in fact some say that the act of lying and lie detection in humans had a significant impact in forming our ability to communicate through language, so it’s a big deal, sure. We don’t want to get hustled, know what I mean?
The issues arise later, when all our needs are met and we’re fed and cozy, and still our minds try to evolve and suspect everything around us because- better safe than sorry, right?
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