They believe they have a God given right to break the speed limit
These cameras disproportionately impact working class individuals, …
100% true, unless fines are scaled to be proportional with offender wealth.
Even then, I’d argue they still disproportionately impact those most likely to be on the road - those who need to drive for or to work.
But so what? Drive the speed limit and you don’t get ticketed. This isn’t some unfair cop picking and choosing who to pull over. Add scaling fines for income and its STILL going to disproportionally impact working class people.
Its still not an argument to get rid of them
They disproportionately effect assholes who speed. The fines are harder to pay if you are poor but they are equally easy to avoid for both rich and poor.
So let’s push for that instead of pushing to remove cameras. In fact, proportional fines would probably increase the revenue, which would bring the funds to improve the road design so folks don’t get the wrong impression of the speed they’re supposed to be in. Also let’s push for better transit so poor people are not forced to drive and risk getting fined.
While I’m down for eating the billionaires, this sounds awfully close to punishing people for being successful.
I agree it disproportionally affects poor people, but rather than scaling the punishment, maybe the answer is to look for non punitive measures that produce the same result.
I’m in agreement that we need systemic solutions, and those involve improving road design, so we agree for the most part on the most important aspect of this.
punishing people for being successful.
But issuing bigger fines for breaking the law is very, VERY far from punishing people for being successful. It’s a correction of an unfortunate truth: if you’re wealthy, you can afford to drive recklessly.
Unscaled fines punish people for being poor, because the punishment is a larger percentage of their disposable income.
Why should a poor person pay a fine of 30% of their monthly take home, while a rich enough person pays 5% (or less?) of their take home for the same infraction.
The only fair solution is for the fine to amount to an equal percent of your take home pay. Then it is the same punishment for everyone.
Indeed I don’t disagree, I think it’s worth experimenting with this and driving fines look like a good place to start
Calming measures work.
Speed cameras do not.
Spend money on calming measures but they won’t because revenue, and the camera companies give the sweet, sweet perks to get the revenue sharing contracts.
Calming measures work.
Yes, they do. And NIMBYs hate them more than automated traffic cameras.
Speed cameras do not.
They have demonstrated to be effective in all the Canadian municipalities who have implemented them. Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise?
The problem is people don’t like getting caught for breaking the law, so they either vandalize or petition against these cameras.
Alternatively, they could drive the posted speed limit and not run red lights. 💁♂️
Found the BMW driver.
Adding narrow shoulders, speed bumps and plastic bollards to the center of roads all slow down traffic because they makes it difficult and uncomfortable to speed. They also drive all the assholes back to main streets instead of taking their big-brain shortcuts through residential areas.
Speed cameras reduce speeding on the main streets by costing you money. After your 3rd, 5th, or 15th automatic ticket you will eventually slow down. You can’t narrow the ridiculous 4 lane city streets in Brampton to slow people down, you can’t put speed bumps in an 80 zone, speed cameras are a cheap and easy to deploy method of convincing drivers to slow the fuck down.
People are like children with their cars. If you were an adult you’d understand you’re less likely to get into an accident when driving at lower speeds, and you’d want everyone else to drive slower so you wouldn’t be holding up up traffic by driving safely.
But nah… vroom vroom I want car go fast! I’m perfect driver so those laws aren’t for me!!! EVs suck because don’t go vroom vroom! Waaaaahhhh!!!
It’s that same as dealing with children.
Please change the title to the one the article has.
That’s rule 1 of this instance.
And anyone wonders why Brampton has some of the highest insurance rates in the country?
Yep - between the speed, the shitty driving and the insurance scammers, I won’t be surprised when insurance companies start declining to insure people with Brampton addresses. I’m not saying it’s right, but it won’t be surprising.
How about instead of removing speed cameras, I propose we add permanent speed cameras to all school zones.
They’re always the “law and order” types except when it comes to traffic laws
Go on, ram into everything at top speed, unleash chaos, pedal to the metal
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Speed limits are just a cash grab
People will drive whatever speed they feel comfortable and if you actually want them to drive slower then build the roads accordingly for said speed
In Victoria we have 30 km/h speed limits on roads where you should be going 60 and it’s literally just a tax on poor people
I recently got fined for doing 61 in a 50 zone, I was the only one on the road, and in a sports car that can go like 100 in second gear
I’ve been driving for 30 years and guess what? Never got a single ticket. It’s actually a tax on the stupid, the arrogant, and the impatient. And I’m super fine with that.
Speed limits are just a cash grab
Yeah! And heroine should be legal! Gun licensing is oppression!
People will drive whatever speed they feel comfortable and if you actually want them to drive slower then build the roads accordingly for said speed
You got that exactly right, but instead of advocating for that you’ve chosen instead to complain that the speed limits should be made higher.
If only we had real world data showing that there are several examples of speed cameras having a positive effect on driver behavior… Even if it was “just a cash grab”, it’s still a productive thing to do, as it can be used to fund the infrastructure changes of actually designing roads to their desired speeds.
poor people
a sports car that can go like 100 in second gear
lmao ok
If you’re that worried about it being a tax on poor people, advocate for free, high quality public transit. The way car centric places are designed right now basically means car ownership is the tax you pay to participate in society unless you want a significantly slower and scheduled experience trying to use transit.
The car can almost go 300km/h so i believe it’s totally valid to drive 10 over the speed limit when safe to do so lmao
What does the top speed of a car has to do with how safe it is to go 10 km/h over the posted speed limit?
People who feel they can drive fast never understand that the road may not be built for extra speed. Most often in cities there aren’t long enough sight lines for traffic joining a road to see a car that is speeding until it is too close. Speeders and zig zaggers don’t see what the cars behind them see: that it is actually the great defensive driving, emergency braking, swerving, going on in their wake, that allows their “safe” passage through traffic - none of which would be needed if they weren’t so selfish.
Driving a center waited sports car is a lot easier to handle, and especially stop, than say a pickup truck right
Also these speed limits were put in place when vehicles still had drum brakes haha
The road I was stopped on should be 70 imo
How fast your car can go and how busy the road is irrelevant. Fact is you were exceeding the limit. Yes our road design sucks. It costs millions to rehabilitate just 1 road while it costs thousands to operate the cameras. People are literally dying due to excessive speeds on our roadways so I’ll take the not perfect solution of speed enforcement over nothing.
@Davriellelouna I dunno, I think there are other ways – obviously nobody likes paying a fine for doing a pretty reasonable speed with no traffic or pedestrians around, even if it is a CSZ. like, <60 in a 50 zone that is a 40 CSZ when there is nobody around, doesn’t feel fair. But also those speed cameras are not just spotting traffic, theyre always watching you. The discomfort with them is real
doesn’t feel fair
Why? Why does it feel unfair to follow the speed limit?
@Davriellelouna what could we do instead? more transit, more density, being able to walk to more places we need to go. but instead we get speed traps harassing people who are honestly acting pretty reasonable (ok, obviously there are maniacs who are not reasonable – but they all drive benzes and bmws, so a fine probably isnt stopping them)
Roads should be designed so that it’s uncomfortable to drive above the targeted speed limit.
Things like road narrowing, speed bumps, bulb outs, lane adjustments, speed humps, pavement decorations, one way chokepoints, etc.
Current the Ontario road geometry supplement requires streets and roads to be geometrically designed to be at least 20kph higher than the posted limit. Well guess what, you want to naturally drive the design speed instead of posted.
Lower design speeds and target the remaining maniacs.
Quick video explaining speed of the measures I brought up (and why they work): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmxBcrXpClg
everything you say is true.
But thinking that cities will redesign their streets without public pressure? I doubt it.
Thankfully, lessons from Europe seem to be penetrating Canada now; at least in the more urban areas. I saw some fantastic progress living in Montréal. Ottawa has the right ideas despite the master plan not being clear to people yet. Toronto was on the right path, but we’ll see what provincial pressures do. My current town of Kingston is late to the party, but we’ve got momentum in the right direction.
We spent 50+ years changing our built environment to “optimise” for the car, even with the best intentions it’s going to take time to change again.
