Something that needs to be considered is the possibility of parallel construction in the arrest and alleged evidence
Yeah… They’ll convict him.
It doesn’t matter whether he did or did not do it just like it won’t matter what evidence does or does not exist.
An example to be made was chosen, and it will be made.
The only question at this point is how will we react to that example.
Spoiled Evidence…
Jokes aside, I honestly don’t know if he’s the guy.
What I do know, is if this part is true, that should be enough to put doubt into the “beyond a reasonable doubt” part in the jury.
I just point blank don’t believe he did it.
Let’s say I kill a high profile individual on the street you know, hypothetically.
Do you seriously believe that I’d be casually hanging out in public at a McDonalds with a manifesto and loaded gun in my bag? I’m pretty sure that my first port of call if I was assassinating someone would be “Burn all the evidence in an alleyway somewhere, get new clothes on, and lay low for pretty much the rest of my fucking life, possibly in Mexico”
Yeah, the real shooter is probably in the woods somewhere barely surviving off what they can find. At least, that’s more reasonable than doing a high profile assassination and going to McDonalds for a burger after (I know it was days later, it’s hyperbole).
Not only that, Luigi’s fake ID which he did not use in an illegal way any known time was not linked with the shooting, just linked to a NY hostel.
Also Luigi was not marandised, hes also charged in NY, Pennsylvania and federally at the same time, double (triple?) jeopardy
And his bags were searched without him being able to see the search, which puts into question the search, but they didn’t find any gun or manifesto at that time. 6 hours later, they did find a gun and a manifesto after being contact with NYPD. And the paper work for this evidence is also not properly filed. In addition the inventory of his belonging was also not descriptive.
He was arrested by a rookie cop that didn’t get help from a supervisor to avoid mistakes either, lots of adrenaline in a huge profile case like this. He said he knew right away that this was the killer, and he had only the propaganda NYPD had posted to the media. And NYPD didn’t know who the killer was
I dont know how long it took, but it took well over 100 days before the defence was able to even see the evidence against him. A huge red flag that the prosecution dont think the evidence holds water. And when they did get it, it was terabytes of data, and Luigi wasn’t allowed to use a computer without hus lawyer present, blocking him from seeing what weaksauce they have against him
The aid to the prosecutor also listened in, they say it was an accident to a whole telephone conversation with Luigi and the lawyer, how is this even possible. The prosecutor rebuked him self from the case after they were caught doing this, so they do a new prosecutor
The feds even call for the death penalty before Luigi is even indited, let alone convinced.
I’m just very skeptical this is the shooter, why would they screw up everything so bad every step on puropuse like this. Its just a hail Mary that the judge who is married to a CEO will convict anyway
He’s an example of the difference in outcomes between a competent attorney focused solely on your own defense and some public defender that didn’t know you’d be their client until five minutes before trial.
Whether or not he did it, the real outcome of this court case appears to be reaffirming that the
NYPDlocal Pennsylvania PD simply cannot be trusted to do any kind of investigation of a crime or evidence handling even in the most high-profile cases.This was a police department in Pennsylvania, days later, hours away from NY
This police department mainly had information from the media, not from NYPD
I think what ends up happening (as a rando without a legal degree) is that the backpack and all of its contents become inadmissible as evidence. It makes beyond a reasonable doubt harder to achieve for the prosecution because they lack a proposed murder weapon in evidence.
This is just a motion. Judge will decide it’s validity and the remedy. It might end up with the evidence excluded, but it might be that the prosecution just has to provide a different/stronger justification, or even be a nothing burger if the judge is unconvinced by the arguments in the motion.
I agree with your analysis if the judge does exclude backpack and contents as evidence.
Anything other than exclusion will be grounds for appeal, later, too.
I think he probably is the right guy but he was smart enough to cover his tracks and they only found him because of some kind of illegal surveillance we don’t know about. Would explain why they’re so desperate for anything else to explain how they know it was him.
The images released at the time show two different people. One was from the scene and the other from a hostel in the area. While they look similar, there are details which show there are very likely not the same person. Luigi only matches the details of the hostel image, not the one from the scene.
NYC is full of tall attractive young men of Italian descent. I used to live there and off the top of my head can think of three different aquaintences who were his age and would have matched his profile close enough.
At this point the funniest thing would be if the real assassin was to take down another healthcare CEO.
Does it have to be healthcare? I mean, there are some other candidates to consider
Someone, can’t remember who…so if it’s you (not necessarily you OP, a general you) put your hand up, in a different Luigi thread a month or so ago had a pet theory that I think probably holds a reasonable amount of water.
The theory is that that CEO was knocked off by a paid hitman, possibly contracted by his spouse, and Luigi happened to be picked up as a scapegoat because the NYPD, or the arresting officer, was complicit/paid off a tidy sum.
With this coming up, it’s even less of an unlikely scenario.
The theory is that that CEO was knocked off by a paid hitman, possibly contracted by his spouse, and Luigi happened to be picked up as a scapegoat because the NYPD, or the arresting officer, was complicit/paid off a tidy sum.
This would be a better theory if Luigi had a serious alibi. Also, if he wasn’t tied up with the Silicon Valley Longtermist movement, which has already produced a number of more low-profile killings.
I wouldn’t discount the pet theory, because it does sound like the kind of shit mega-millionaires get up to. But the NYPD picking up this guy specifically, where and when they did, with no credible counternarrative as to where he was at the time of the killing, makes me strongly suspect they have the right guy. But - like with the OJ Brown-Simpson murder - they’ve got such a clown car of detectives and a grandstanding mayor and self-insert celebrity journalists and prosecutors promoting the case as spectacle that they’re going to completely fuck this thing at trial.
If he wins the criminal case but loses a far more professionally executed civil “wrongful death” case a few years later, I would not be surprised in the slightest.
Why would the hitman engrave the bullets? If they’re picking a plausible scapegoat with severe medical issues, then why one that’s young rich and handsome?
to make it look like an ideological hit job.
But then why one that’s young rich and handsome?
The police chose the actual suspect. not whoever planned the hit
because mcdonald’s called and said “there’s a homeless guy here that looks like the assassin”.
if you distribute a wanted picture like that, i’m sure there will be tons of false identification…
more importantly, in a court of law, illegal searches matter… whether or not @explodicle@sh.itjust.works thinks he’s probably guilty or not.
Oh I think he’s definitely not guilty. I’m just not sure if he did it.
Man, I never said the theory was…dare I say… bulletproof? 🤓
Buuuuuut…if all the evidence was planted? Look, the “manifesto”, the engraved bullets, the whole thing is a cop’s wet dream. I’m willing to believe Luigi is in fact the triggerman, willing to believe that he’s unhinged enough to have toted all that about with him. You gotta think though…the NYPD were frothing, Altoona PD are under staffed, under paid. Not outside the realm of possibility it’s a frame job.
Just a tinfoil hat theory that I thought was…fun? Not really the best word for it, but fits well enough.
free luigi!
You don’t need a warrant to search the belonging directly on the person of someone arrested.
There is probably a chain of custody question involved here.
Who needs movies when reality comes up with stuff like this?
A second thought - if I was the elite, I’d start panicking right now regardless of the outcome of the trial.
The “assassin” is still out there. He was able to pull this off Infront of secretly cameras, and the only evidence he left behind were three bullets found near the body of the CEO who clearly died of pre-existing conditions.
Leave it to the NYPD to find the guy who did it regardless of who actually did it
I love the smell of “Reasonable Doubt” in the morning
source? would love to use this in further talks and wont if its just a twitter post
Getting arrested in Pennsyltucky by imbreds was a genius move.
Let’s say that Mangione committed the crime.
My understanding is that he gave cops a fake ID when they questioned him on reasonable suspicion (the basis of which was a tip from an employee). That is something that yes, he can be arrested for. And he can be personally searched after that arrest. But at that point, he can no longer get a gun out of his bag, and cops have control of it, so he can’t destroy evidence/get a weapon from it; so searching the bag should be out at that time. So, my understanding, based on case law, is that they would have needed a warrant to search it at that time, as the contents of the bag aren’t related to the reason he’s been arrested. You aren’t supposed to be able to use a pretextural arrest to search a person’s car or belongings (e.g., arrest you for suspicion of drunk driving, then search your car to find evidence of burglaries).
In theory, without the warrant, the search and everything from the search should be out. Even if he committed the crime, and kept all the evidence conveniently in his backpack, it should be completely excluded from the case. I’m sure that the DA is going to argue that there’s some exception that allows a warrantless search, but I can’t say what that argument will be. If the evidence is allowed in, his defense attorney is going to have to object every single time that prosecutors refer to it, for any reason, in order to preserve the option to claim that evidence was improperly admitted in an appeal. (Which they should absolutely do, if it goes that far!)
Federal rules of evidence is pretty complicated stuff. But goddamn, does it look like someone fucked up bad on a really high profile case.
You aren’t supposed to be able to use a pretextural arrest to search a person’s car or belongings
This is something they could very easily forget, or just never learned, because they usually fuck up the poor and colored and press them into plea deals so it never goes to trial so it never becomes apparent the police have nothing since they ignored all the laws, i imagine when u spend a good amount of your career cheating the justice system you forget there were ever rules to begin with.
Even if he committed the crime, and kept all the evidence conveniently in his backpack
Yeah, he conveniently carried around a disposable weapon used in a murder that he was wanted for, instead of disposing of it. Also he conveniently wrote a manifesto related to the murder and carried that around in his backpack as well.
Nothing suspicious here. Move along.
Not a manifesto. Manifestos are published by the author. We have no way of knowing who authored that police officer’s fever dream, but since the police published it, it wasn’t written by Luigi. Also the language and grammar are consistent with the lack of education that cops receive, not the level of education that Luigi received.
They called it a manifesto, which is why I used the term. If it’s real, he was basically just carrying around a written confession in his backpack just to make the cops’ jobs easier, I guess.
Fair nuff
Not a lawyer, but I know that when a cop arrests someone in a car and the car is impounded, they catalog items. This is an unofficial search to make sure they aren’t liable for missing items. I would expect the same of a backpack. But perhaps that falls under the same disqualification of use as evidence you’re suggesting.
That’s called an “inventory search”, and this motion says what happened isn’t an “inventory search” because they didn’t follow procedure (and cites supporting precedence).
If they would have just hauled him in for processing on the false identification, and then found the gun during an inventory search at the station, it would be better for the prosecution.
The motion also claims that the search couldn’t be a… safety search? (I don’t know the right term)… like checking a person for weapons, because before the search was initiated, the suspect was already handcuffed and separated from the backpack so didn’t have access to anything in it that could be hazardous to the officers. Prosecution might argue is was a safety search because they were looking for a hazard that didn’t need to be triggered by the suspect, like a timed device or just an incidental hazard.
IANAL, just an interested citizen.
