- cross-posted to:
- ghazi@lemmy.blahaj.zone
- cross-posted to:
- ghazi@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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Just to be clear for everyone here, the mod author effectively stated the goal was to reduce diversity.
There are other mods that change gender of characters that state no such thing, which are still up. It’s really only the intent here that mattered.
It’s mildly interesting to consider that just stating the intent is the key difference. Not so much banning the mod as the modder, I guess.
That’s the key part about this and the other times it’s made the news I dislike. They don’t actually care about the content in the mod, which is why 90% of these hateful mods remain up; those mod authors didn’t put the same hate into the description, or the forum, or anywhere other than in the mod which would have to be downloaded and verified by someone to actually know it’s a hateful piece of shit. And then when it makes the news when one jackass decides to spout racist/sexist/homo/transphobic shit in the description and get their mod removed, people point out all the other hateful mods that didn’t get taken down and wonder why this one is being singled out.
Just remove all of them.
“Remove all of them” implies a good question: what is “all” of them? All mods changing the models of characters? Changing the models of characters to make them more conventionally attractive? Less conventionally attractive? Changing the gender of characters? Changing men to women? Changing women to men? All mods that change skin color? Changing white skin to black skin? Changing black skin to white skin? All mods changing sexual orientation? Straight to queer? Queer to straight?
I think you should just allow everything, as long as it isn’t associated with hate speech or discrimination. Which is exactly what’s happening here.
No mods ever allowed, no modifications to any licensed content, in any kind, only vanilla play through, and only one time
All of them meaning all of the mods that clearly do things out of bigotry like turning black characters white, erasing gay characters, erasing trans issues, etc.
This isn’t a particularly hard moral or ethical question to anyone who isn’t trying to allow hateful content to spread.
Just checking, so if a mod was released that made a straight character gay, that would be fine, but one that made a gay character straight wouldn’t be? Or would both be fine? Assuming no description for either, nothing but content.
Yes.
The big difference is that when mods remove a single gay character, it’s always the only gay character in the game.
If the mod adding gay characters turns all the straight characters gay, that’s erasure. If the new gay character has dialogue that is hateful toward straight people, it’s still bigotry.
Adding representation to a game that has none is fine. Removing representation entirely isn’t.
So what if there are 3 gay characters, and there are 3 separate mods that each make one of the characters straight. Each single one does not remove representation, but having all 3 installed together would. Do you ban these 3 mods?
I don’t know, I just feel like this is such an arbitrary choice. If you reduce the number to 2 gay characters in a game, with 2 different mods, is that still okay or should both be banned again?
Is it really a difference if you reduce the number of gay characters to 1? What if you split the mod up into two parts, one just removing all sexual remarks (effectively with the intention of making the char asexual), and another simply also adding hetero (so effectively making the char bi) remarks, and you then combine these two mods again to effectively make the 1 character hetero (official gay remarks removed, hetero remarks added)?
Sure, representation is great and I’m all for it, but I’m also for people being able to change whatever they want in their own game. In the end, it’s only affecting them and no one else, which should be the prime directive of tolerance.
I love how you explained what you meant by all of them and got the typical gotcha question in response.
Nexus consistently refuses to be a platform for bigotry.
That should not be controversial, at all, in any context.
If this asshat wants to publish it elsewhere - he’s free to. Nobody’s stopping him. It’s just a file. He has every moral right to modify software however he sees fit, and he has every practical right to be a homophobe online with fellow homophobes.
But I don’t want anything to do with him. I don’t want to use any website that’s cool with bigots spreading bigotry. If the people who run the website don’t want to deal with that shit either… tough shit, guy. Find another bar. This one’s not for Nazis. Warn all your Nazi friends.
bUt MuH FrEeDoM oF sPeEch!
You lost me at Nazis lmao
Please don’t water down the word
First Nazi book burning was in front of a Berlin center for transgender research.
Just saying.
We’re not.
This is how stupid the actual Nazis were, before all the murder.
So you’re saying everyone I disagree with is not in fact a Nazi? Interesting stuff but it sounds exactly like something a Nazi would say.
Shut up, troll. We’re talking about overt bigots targeting racial and sexual minorities.
OK snowflake 😁
Says jackass pretending everyone’s just calling names, when the modder explicitly stated their bigoted intent. ‘Everyone’s such a meanie and calls names, waaah!’ No: we’re specifically talking about Nazis who proudly say ‘why yes we are Nazis, thank you for asking.’
But your kind doesn’t care what words mean, so you’re just gonna performatively roll your eyes some more.
OK snowflake
Sadly predictable.
This is hardly news, Nexus has removed mods like these in the past from games like Spider-man and Skyrim. Their rules are pretty straightforward when it comes to stuff like this.
The news is more that the mod existed. And it may not be particularly shocking news but it’s still notable when people put this much work into hate.
What makes it hate?
Online news stories primary goal is to gain viewership and “customer reaction” measured by traffic figures. Although I agree this shouldn’t be news, it is undeniably a successful news story due to the interactivity it’s creating.
As long as people are triggered into clicking on that link, it’ll be seen as “what the people want” and therefore “good news story” by the media.
Yes I’m aware I’ve just described click bait to someone who clearly would understand the concept, I apologise lol
Good, fuck that modder
I don’t have any issues with diversity and inclusivity, and support it however I can.
But I don’t really see the problem with this mod? It’s a honest question, I’ve just read the article, and the Nexus mod answer doesn’t make much sense to me. I mean there are literally mods that change every character in Skyrim to females, how is that different? (I didn’t log in to see the if the mod is active, but I’m sure there’s a lot of “we change this character to female” mods for any game).
And more importantly, why not let anyone do whatever they want with their game, and enjoy it however they want? Or was it similar to the Starfield pronouns mod, where the creator went on a hateful rant in the mod description, and acted like a total dick, spewing their bullshit intorelant propaganda? Then, the removal would be understandable. Otherwise, it’s just counter-productive and only serves to even more divide people and turn them against eachother, and feels like an unnecessary witch-hunt and a PR stunt.
But please correct me if I’m wrong or missing something, there’s probably some context that I don’t have.
Nah this mod was making trans people into trans people that regretted it. They planned on removing all the people of colour because of “realism” and do other assorted fuckery. There was a long post about the group that was writing this mod, it wasn’t done in good faith.
In other words, there’s “let people mod whatever they like” and there’s mods that are effectively a statement of an ethos, and not all ethos are worth letting your platform be used to broadcast.
There’s also mods that are tools to give players more freedom, and mods that are fixes to correct what the dev sees as mistakes or shortcomings. The difference between “choose what color you want the flags to be” and “the flags are all blue now”. The latter is a statement of a belief: “I think the game would be better if all the flags were blue”.
The changes in this mod could be framed differently, like “gives player more granular control over NPC gender and sexuality”. It could have been done in a respectful and open-ended fashion that doesn’t play on harmful stereotypes. It could even be used to make the game “more gay” if the player chooses, then if some players choose to make it all “less gay”, so be it. That would be fine.
But that’s not what this mod is, and the intent behind it is fairly obvious. There’s no reason to pussyfoot around this one with arguments about player freedom, that wasn’t why it was made.
100%. Sometimes I don’t know if that concept is maybe to hard to get for some or if they actively choosing not to understand.
Yeah well those types are arguing for the sake of making a show for bystanders and wear down their interlocutor than to have a honest discussion. Just look at their best (shen bapiro) and how the dude is arguing. It’s all in bad faith. They play the card of being innocent and inquisitive, try to uphold the free speech and stuff like that…and it’s all in bad faith.
Or the people arguing here for the “freedom” of installing this mod.
I mean feel free, just not available from nexusmod.
Removed by mod
I care. Pretending intent doesn’t matter just allows the hatred this mod creator has to grow. They didn’t make that change in good faith, it’s a common dog whistle for right wing bigots. Around 1% regret transition, and often because of backlash from those around them, not because they’re not trans.
When someone’s intent is to criticize and invalidate a trans person’s very existence, I care. And obviously plenty of people do since the mod was removed.
Seems like it just gave it even more attention to me. I don’t even play the game as it looks lame as shit and boring to me but now I know about this mod lol. And surely I can still go seek it out and download it easily if I wanted.
Well nexus mods cared. Nobody is stopping you from downloading the mod, just find another source for it
Just because the mod isn’t on Nexus mod it doesn’t mean the creator can’t use it or share it, it just means Nexus mod finds it unacceptable and doesn’t want to host it, so people can do whatever they want with their game and Nexus mod can do whatever they want with their website.
Nexus is based as hell
As was said, the mod author stated the goal was to reduce diversity.
There are other mods that change gender of characters that state no such thing, which are still up.
Yeah, I wasn’t aware of the context of the author working on other mods like that, that are purging every diverse character from the game. I totally agree that then it shouldn’t be there, I was just taking the mod at a face value and comparing it to other gender-changing mods, which still were there. Given the author’s intent and rhetorics, he shouldn’t be given a platform to speak.
So? Why can’t they and their community have their exposure to fap to whatever fantasy they like?
The last time something like this happened, it was with a mod that removed the pronouns option in (IIRC) Starfield and the reason it was removed wasn’t for the content of the mod, but for the content the particular mod’s maker put in the description page (bunch of transphobic hate speech). Many news sites reporting on it conveniently left that part of the story out; I imagine this is just another example of that kind of shit reporting and the reason it was removed was because the mod creators were being hateful pricks in the description or forums.
Or was it similar to the Starfield pronouns mod, where the creator went on a hateful rant in the mod description, and acted like a total dick, spewing their bullshit intorelant propaganda?
yes, this is basically what happened with this baldurs gate mod, and this is why it was removed
Nexus isn’t obliged to host your files. They’re free to have the final say.
I dislike this notion that the characters in the game got to be X. But this is 100% bigotry. That’s what makes it not okay. It’s not the same as someone going in and making everyone a hot naked lesbian with a single click sex mod. This mod exists as a message and to hurt people.
The creator is free to self host it if they wish. But they may not host it using sites like nexus where they disagree with his message.
That’s the facts. My personal opinion is irrelevant. I wish I didn’t have to explain it but it’s not black and white and can’t be taken at face value.
I agree, Nexus isn’t oblidged to host your files. I wasn’t aware of the authors other mods and goal to purge diversity from the game - which makes it absolutely OK to not want him on your platform, and I agree with removing it.
But when I took the mod at a face value, without this context, I really don’t see any problem with it, especially compared to all other gender changing mods on Nexus. Which made their reason not to include it seem like pandering because someone took an issue with it. Now I know that was not the case, and that there was malicious and pretty awfull intent and message behind the mod. But without that, I still think the mod would be OK, and taking it down would be unfair, just because some vocal people took issue with it - which is how the situation looked like from the article. But that’s not the case, and I was mistaken, so it’s solved.
Which also covers the ‘but who decides?!’ canard.
Nexus decides. They have rules, they try to apply them consistently, we see the results. If you disagree strongly enough then either write them to politely state your case or make your own goddamn website.
Scoffing at the fact a human being has to make judgement calls is not a moral victory, despite the smug posturing of a million right-wing trolls who might honestly believe they’re not right-wing trolls. Propose whatever grey-area hypotheticals you want. Hell, put in the work, upload it for real, and see what happens. Make your hypothetical a hypothesis and test that bitch. But don’t mistake the vague possibility of edge cases as proof that “Nazis fuck off” is a bad policy.
deleted by creator
I agree overall, but as hard as it may be to prove, I think it comes down to intent. A mod based on hate has no place on Nexus (even though I’m sure they still exist). Replacing a gay character with another is fine in my opinion generally speaking, but replacing them specifically because you hate gay people and you want to erase them from the game is not. The mod author is a hate filled person who intended to do a lot more based on bigotry, and he was loud and proud of that fact. He could have slipped under the radar easily by having another outlook and not being blatantly hateful.
You are right, I wasn’t aware of the context - the authors goal to just eradicate diversity from the game, and that makes it perfectly ok of not wanting to have someone like that on your platform. But taking the mod at a face value, I didn’t see what’s the fuss about, now I get it.
I wouldn’t use this, but it’s fine as long as there another mod for me to increase the gayness of it all.
The whole point of mods to get the perfect gayness level for the individual player. Some want none of it. Some wants a ton of it. I just want Thomas the Tank Engine replacing all sexy men and women.
I 100% agree with everything you days. I wouldn’t install this mod, but I also don’t think it should be removed, at least given what I know about it.
Because the general mindset right now is not liberty of having your own opinion but to push in the opposite direction of what was thought years ago. And that’s the problem with extremist thinking it does not care for balance only extreme posture for either one side or the other.
I suppose the irony of trying to make it less lGbtq and instead making it lgbTq goes unnoticed by the bigoted creator?
Something something respect the creators vision when I agree with it?
I honestly don’t care what people are into, but this game is a bit intense, sexually. I’m just trying to get my RPG fix, and all the characters constantly wanna bang my ass, when all I want is to be their Homie…
Less gay?
It’s good I have eternity client for Lemmy and it shows me my subscribed topics in the main tab
And I don’t need to see people shouting at other people so often
To those that are saying they don’t see a problem with this mod. Let me put it to you this way. Instead of a mod that turned one gay woman into a straight man what if it turned one black character into a white character?
There literally was a mod like that in Stardew Valley that turned Demetrius into a white character, and it was rightfully deleted from Nexus mods. If someone has that much of a problem with a character being a different race, sex, gender, or sexual identity then they’re clearly bigoted no matter what they say to the contrary.
It’s gay erasure, and it’s bigotry, plain and simple.
The creator of the mod actually wanted to do just that. He wanted to turn Wyll white, erase all LGBT references, and make Mizhena a trans person who regretted their decision and detransitioned.
Imagine being that insecure
Eesh. Bet we all can guess who that modder voted for :(
Geert Wilders?
If they’re Dutch: likely.
I have no problem with a mod that changes someone’s sexual orientation, someone’s race, someone’s species, or just plain removes or adds new characters. Why would I care how someone else is playing a game?
You don’t have to care. No one does. No one is blocking this from working.
It’s just not being listed on Nexus.
Moreover this mod wasn’t giving options to players to choose how they wanted to play, it was changing very specific things and advertising it. Nexus doesn’t care to let them use their platform to advertise a mod made for a very specific audience of really shitty people.
Removed by mod
Seems really dumb to make such a mod. A game that has characters of different orientations and identities is simply a more believable and thereby better game.
However from what I have been reading, the game seems to be overly focused on sex and relationships in general, or is that depending on player decisions?
Edit: I asked an honest question and got downvotes.What the fuck is wrong with some people?
Overly focused is a stretch. You can manage relationships with up to 6 party members, of which you may have up to 1 intimate scene in each of the 3 acts per party member. This is theoretical, and is generally not achievable like that in one playthrough unless you’re following a guide. Also, those intimate scenes do not always include sex, they are often just deep conversations.
More importantly, the 3-4 5 minute scenes are spread out over a 60-100 hour campaign lol
My first playthrough was 130 hours and my character had sex once, and I only did that because the situation was so outrageous I wanted to see what happened.
overly focused on sex and relationships in general
I thought you liked believable stories
You act like people are just having sex all the time in real life, but as we all know real people rarely ever have sexual relationships. Now if the characters had to masturbate once a day to cartoon characters…
Art would truly imitate life
I totally agree with your second sentence, that it makes the game more believable and (at least for me), and BG3 is such an amazing game thanks to their character cast.
However, why would it be dumb to make such a mod? Sure, it’s not something I’d use, but it’s actually a pretty cool technological feat, given the voices and everything, and it allows you to finetune the game to more fit your preference or fantasy. RPGs are supposed to be about living through your fantasies, and having fun. It’s a single player game, why shouldn’t people tailor it to their own specific needs and wants?
Of course, if they are being a dick about it, and spewing their bullshit propaganda in the mod description, the I’m all for just banning it.
Probably a damn good game, but everything people talk about on the internet is sex 24/7. Makes BG3 sound like a hentai game.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
So in my opinion the game spends too much time on relationships of any flavor
That is what I was worried about. I loved playing Divinity 2 because of it´s focus on exploring and combat and never felt that I needed more love/sex/relationships in the game.
You’re getting downvoted from one camp who disagrees that more diversity in a game makes it more “believable” and downvoted from another camp that will also downvoted me for disliking or criticizing the game at all. It’s very popular, with good reason, and has generated a very strong fanbase. Suggesting anything is “overly focused” is not gonna fly.
Some people obviously never learned how to debate. I did not even say that BG3 was overly focused on relationships, I in fact just asked if it was.
