The Biden administration has announced a proposal to “strengthen its Lead and Copper Rule that would require water systems to replace lead service lines within 10 years,” the White House said in a statement on Thursday.
According to the White House, more than 9.2 million American households connect to water through lead pipes and lead service lines and, due to “decades of inequitable infrastructure development and underinvestment,” many Americans are at risk of lead exposure.
“There is no safe level of exposure to lead, particularly for children, and eliminating lead exposure from the air, water, and homes is a crucial component of the Biden-Harris Administration’s historic commitment to advancing environmental justice,” the Biden administration said.
Can’t wait for the GOP to sabotage this so they can oWn ThE LiBs: “Lead free pipes are for socialists!”
“We don’t want any of your leftist ‘woke’ pipes!”
I can already hear my boomer father bitching
Came here to say this. I look forward to whatever their excuse is to not solve the toxic drinking water problem. And likely immediately spend more on DoD or cut taxes to the rich.
DoD
Dungeons or Dragons?
Department of Defense
That would be infinitely cooler and more useful.
Sadly it’s the department of defense.
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Lead makes Republicans
It’s funny, because the hexbears basically have the same “Biden bad” reaction. Almost like there’s a weird amount of ideological overlap.
Not a hexbear, but the leftist “Biden bad” narrative wouldn’t demonize investing in infrastructure, they would call out shit like unconditional support for Israel or failing to meaningfully improve social safety nets via Medicare for All, or other such measures. Biden is a Liberal, at the end of the day, and that’s not going to please any leftist except by not being a fascist.
Never underestimate the effects of extremism on rational conclusions
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Flip your district blue in 18 years with this one weird trick!
This is a greater threat to the republicans than gerrymandering is to the democrats!
REPUBLICANS HATE THIS WEIRD HACK!
Those that purposely destroyed the water systems with cuts in Flint Michigan should have been quartered in a public square.
Sadly in reality they probably received bonuses and perks.
Those that caused the switchover to Flint River water that resulted in the disaster surfacing definitely should be drawn and quartered, no question. Snyder and his city managers put all this nonsense in motion and should be charged with crimes against humanity.
However, it’s also a systemic, deeper problem in the US. Flint’s pipes didn’t suddenly become terrible overnight. The entire water system was in disrepair for decades. The only reason it didn’t surface sooner was they were regulating the water going through it to hold the demons at bay. Even when it was working, pre-disaster, the water was safe to drink, but horrible from a drinking water perspective.
The whole system was a giant leaking piece of junk that basically kept working due to positive pressure pushing contaminants out of the leaks, and the pH level being maintained so the old pipes wouldn’t start leeching into the water. That a GM engine plant had to switch water sources because the water was damaging the engine construction is just mind-blowing. Human bodies are vastly more delicate than engines.
Flint’s not the only one either, many American cities with aging water infrastructure that wasn’t properly maintained all have/had similar problems.
We are such a short-sighted country that seems to so quickly forget that our infrastructure requires constant maintenance and updates. I really think the generation that got to live among all the New Deal and post WWII infrastructure just thought they lived in a magic time where all this stuff just exists forever, rather than realizing it takes stewardship to keep things “the way they are”. Now, we on the back end, reap the rewards of everything falling apart at the same time, faster than we can fix it.
We are such a short-sighted country
We see about as far as the next quarter’s profits. That seems to be the marker. Apparently, the future isn’t really worth looking at past that.
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This is one of those times I’m like why are mass shootings always schools and bars and not assholes like the people responsible for this
Wasn’t it a theme there for awhile to go Postal? I can’t recall if that was about co-workers, management, the general public or all of the above?
A friend of mine was starting into a tirade a while back about how terrible it is that all water pipe installed in houses today is plastic even though we know BPAs are killing people. I suggested that they might be better than lead pipe. We still high five from time to time.
Does he mean PEX? Because that’s HDPE and is BPA-free.
I know people were charged for their involvement in the crisis but from what I can tell they got out of the charges. I think there may be a case that is still pending, though
I linked an article in one of my comments that describes the criminal cases. They did not get off scot free as of 2021.
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There the Democrats go again not doing anything!
“Both sides are the same”
While we’re digging shit up, lets lay some fiber.
AT&T after taking my tax money: “hahahahahahahahahahahahahah no”
I would rather DRINK LEAD then to not be allowed to call a black person the N WORD! I’m a NOT RACIST REPUBLICAN!
For some reason I read that last post with an Italian accent. I’ma noot racist
Let’s a go!
👌
Just another day on which I as a European am absolutely shocked how shit the quality of life in the US is.
Europe has lead pipes as well, buddy.
They’re perfectly safe as long as idiots don’t change the water supply to one that’s more acidic without buffering the pH.
Hell, England and Wales have nearly 3x more than the entire US.
When people say europe they usually aren’t thinking of countries such as Russia, Turkey, or the UK.
What. I can maybe give you Russia (“Eastern Europe”) and Turkey (seems more culturally Middle East than Europe), but most people are absolutely thinking of the UK. What other group would they be part of?
Svalbard.
Their own group? They voted to leave Europe after all.
Did you not read my whole comment?
We currently have the freedom to drink lead tainted water, can you say the same?
Yes. 25% of domestic residences still use lead piping in the EU, compared to 10% in the US.
Europeans “Try Not To Talk Shit About Something You’re Actually Worse About” Challenge:
Impossible.
But it feeeels like they should be better! Don’t bring facts into the Europe self-suck contest
Do they even have people in wheelchairs in Europe? Would really suck ass for those people if true.
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ok do prison populations
European here, how is that relevant?
We are shit at stuff, Americans are shit at stuff, your comment does not solve anything.
That explains a lot about the Republican party
It doesn’t, but lead gas and paint do.
Yeah! Tell that bad British person to shut up about my freedom water! They almost made me drop my crayon and I’m trying to find dot #6! I can’t wait to find out which shape these dots are going to make me draw… There’s seven dots and the word “stop” in the middle, so I’m thinking a school bus!
The funny thing is that England has more residences with lead pipes than the entire US.
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You don’t even have pipes in Europe. You drink water that you squeeze out of your sheep’s wool
Delicious sheepwater. You will never take away my sheepwater.
It’s worth noting that 9.2 million homes is an extremely small percentage of American homes and I’d say almost all of them are extremely rural homes or dying rural towns that just need relocated. Think of North Dakota as akin to the Siberian oblasts or northern Finland, neither get a lot of infrastructure care because no almost one is there. This is the Biden admin trying to look out for the little guy that’s been ignored the last century
He should do high speed internet next. My mom has been stuck on a 3mbps WISP since 2007.
Agreed, the ISPs pissed away the billions they got in the early 2000s. It’s time to pony up another few billion but let the military do the work this time then hand the actually completed project to gouvernement ran ISPs.
My dad is still paying frontier like $80 a month for 4mbps that doesn’t work half the time
Eh, it doesn’t need to be installed by the military, but it definitely needs to be a public works project.
And if the telecoms push back, it’s time to start an audit on where that tax money went.
But yeah, AT&T’s fiber trunk line runs 50ft from my mom’s front door, but they wont even put a dsl relay out there (it’s been 2 years away for the past 20 years)
I only say the military because they’re answerable to the executive branch, the public ISPs are beholden only to shareholders who do not have the best interests of the public in mind. If given the opportunity the ISPs will squander it again and there’s nothing an after the fact audit will do about it, the military will at least complete the job even if it takes longer and is slightly over budget.
And by military I mostly mean army Corp of engineers and whichever division wants to offer up its IT ops crew for the setup
Have you ever been here?
Amazing that this has not been done decades ago.
To be completely fair, a layer builds up in the pipe which stops the lead being an issue unless you royally fuck up like Flint. That said, it still should’ve been fixed
As someone who thankfulky doesn’t like in the un-united states of america How exactly did flint royally fuck up
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis
They were buying water from Detroit’s water system. In order to save money, they switched to getting it from the nearby river, but they failed to account for how the new water source would interact with their pipes. They didn’t treat the new water correctly and it corroded all their old lead pipes, dumping lead into the water and giving everyone lead poisoning.
Even years later, after they switched back to Detroit water, they’re still having problems because the damage to the pipes is already done.
They switched to a water source that wasn’t treated with orthophosphates. This change in water chemistry created an environment where the lead would dissolve off and be replaced with other metal deposits. My layman understanding is the water was treated in a way to bind lead to the pipes and the untreated water created an environment where the effect was counteracted.
“Orthophosphates create a mineral coating that keeps toxic lead stuck to pipes.”
“The absence of orthophosphates made the lead vulnerable to dissolving off the pipes and into the water supply. Meanwhile, other metals like aluminum and magnesium appeared to take the lead’s place.”
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/science/study-confirms-lead-got-flints-water
Well, the appointed officials switched to a water source and specifically chose to not treat it with required chemicals to save money.
Slightly different than just switching water sources.
Thank you, I wasn’t entirely confident that part got proven or not so I didn’t want to inappropriately make the statement.
It’s such a staggering amount of work and money that I think is hard for most people to comprehend. Though, if dispersed properly, will benefit local workers as they usually require they get paid prevailing wage. Which can be pretty fucking high depending on where you live.
And even once all of the lead service lines are replaced, that’s just from main to the meter at most. All of the internal fixtures are the owner’s responsibility, and you better believe tons of old houses are still full of lead pipes.
This is something that is going to take decades, and you’re absolutely right that we should have started decades ago.
Germany outlawed installing lead pipes in 1973, this year operating them got outlawed, though already ten years ago the permissible lead concentrations were so low as to be basically impossible achieve if you had even short runs of lead pipes. All the main lines got replaced IIRC in the 80s, latest, can’t find numbers right now, though apparently they rarely used lead there in the first place.
Also, btw, if you’re already digging up water pipes it’s quite easy to install some cable ducts while you’re at it, put all those power and telco lines underground and stop looking like a 3rd world country. That kind of last-mile infrastructure should be managed by municipal-level monopoly, if an ISP wants to sell you something they can hook up to the municipality’s IXP and rent the rest of the way to your house at fixed, fair, rates. It’s a natural monopoly: It makes as much economical sense to run more than two power or telco connections to a house as it makes to run more than one street to your house: Costs a lot of money to run that second street and as soon as you did your competitor is going to lower their prices, which they can do because their investment already amortised, and leave you stranded with your investment because why would the residents of the house switch to your offering if your competitor is cheaper. There’s an opportunity when switching from copper to fiber but fiber will last for the next 1000 years so it’s not really a solution.
Come on now, you’re actually making sense, we don’t do that here in the US. Money and the amount of effort required rule everything.
It’s just another case of “it costs too much to fix it, so just keep slapping a bandaid on it and kick it down the road”, just like the rest of our infrastructure. Yet we have billions available to “defend” ourselves 🙄
More than billions, I think our defense budget was $766 billion in 2022 alone, at around 12% which was actually lower than 2021 which cost taxpayers 15% and 801 billion.
It’s… it’s a big big problem, especially in a time where the U.S hasn’t had a war on it’s soil in a long, long time.
I get that we go to other countries and
help out a bitget involved but we have issues on our own turf killing us from the inside.Yeah, I just saw a YouTube video where the US has “frozen” the access to mega-yachts owned by Russian billionaires, but they can’t seize them because they can’t legally prove that the billionaires own them since they’re registered in one country and owned by a shell corporation in another country. So if we (and other countries who are doing this) can eventually prove that they own said yachts, we can sell them, but until then we have to pay the constant upkeep on them to keep them in pristine condition… Which costs like 10 million a year per yacht…and we have multiple of them🤦♂️
No money to pay our citizens more, invest in our own infrastructure, or fund programs that our citizens need!
Nope, none of that. Can’t even support our veterans that fought in the past wars that taxpayers had to pay trillions for but they can afford the salaries of the soldiers currently out there. It’s like when a corporation cuts the 401k’s of thousands of employees then turns around and hires thousands more…
The yachts ordeal is yet another example. All this $ frivolously spent on excess before basic needs of citizens are being met. The U.S could damned near be a utopia if we’d elect some people with common sense and quit voting in corrupt politicians.
I could rant about this for hours as it’s just basic stuff. It’s petty and boring so read on at your own risk.
We can’t afford guns until the needs of the common people have been met.
We can’t afford to imprison people for trivial stuff when they’re not an active threat to society.
Healthcare is a right, not a privilege.
Food is a right. No one should have to decide between paying the rent and eating a proper meal.
Housing is a right and shouldn’t be a for profit industry. Buying up tons of land in a scheme to get wealthy isn’t good for anyone.
Banks just… shouldn’t exist the way that they do. Neither should the credit system, predatory loaning practices etc. Prices just keep going up due to this.
If banks/credit ceased to exist and loans stopped being made, then the price of things would have to adjust to reflect what the average person can actually afford which just makes sense right? If an average person can’t make enough to afford their own home at regular wages within a few years by their self then either they aren’t getting paid enough or asking prices are way too damned high.
There are just some practices in this world that are bad for it. Everyone knows the shit but no one will do anything because the people with the power to actually enforce change are benefitting too much from the same system to kill it.
Oh, and another one. Flint Michigan is supposedly enacting an (iirc) $9-10 million dollar bill to repair/replace their pipes in order for the people their to have clean drinking water and not get sick or die from lead poisoning. $9-10 mill would make all that difference yet our government won’t pay it even though we’re spending the better part of a trillion each year blowing things up. How petty is that? Can’t take a penny out of our war money so people can have clean drinking water… pathetic!
Yep it’s disgusting. They’re only willing to put money into things that will (potentially) make them money.
That, and bombs. Nice username btw
I actually just listened to a podcast about NYCs water supply. To back up your claim, they started pipe #3 around the 1970s and only recently finished (or should have by 2021, the episode was from before then)
Portland replaced most of its water and sewer pipes, AND built a massive 21 ft diameter sewer bypass and storage line 250 ft below the city over the course of about 10 years. When I was living there, the city went up and down every building on every street in my neighborhood to put in new sewer and water connections. Those crews were fast.
NYC is just too big, old and bureaucratic compared to other US cities.
Those crews were fast.
Doing whole cities and streets in one go is always the better option: The crews know what they’re doing, all the material and materiel is already on site and scheduling is uncomplicated.
Norderstedt’s utility hooked up the whole city to fibre 1999 to 2002, total investment 43 million Euro for just over 80k inhabitants, roughly 540 Euro per head… but that number is a bit misleading the utility only made a loss of 10 million over that time span, or 125 Euro per inhabitant. A couple of years later all the money was recouped and they started expanding to neighbouring villages and the north of Hamburg. Asymmetric gigabit for 50 bucks (upload actually costs ISPs money while download gets paid by whoever’s upload that is which is why asymmetric makes sense even if the connection is symmetric).
Kinda hard to do nowadays as the second Deutsche Telekom gets wind of any such initiative they suddenly decide that laying down fibre to replace their copper would, after all, make economical sense. Which is the reason why elsewhere here I’m advocating for municipal monopolies: Municipalities should be able to say “ok you didn’t want to invest here, now it’s too late you don’t get to compete”.
(And just in case btw you thought T-Mobile was a grand and nice company: No it isn’t. It’s a Deutsche Telekom subsidiary. The only reason they are customer-friendly in the US is because they’re up against the baby bells there, in Germany Deutsche Telekom is the bell, created by splitting up and privatising the postal service, they own pretty much all the copper everywhere in the country).
This has the potential to save democracy itself. If we can hold out 30-50 years.
You also gotta get rid of microplastics and forever chemicals, and bump public education funding up about 80%, lol. Once a generation gets a bad education, they are pretty stoved in.
What are the odds that this is just a campaign promise and he never even attempts to actually do this?
Edit: this was a genuine question. I’ve seen lots of broken campaign promises in my day. Politicians will promise you the moon every election cycle, but very few ever deliver.
Biden has had more accomplishments in his presidency than most.
TL;DR: largest economic stimulus packages ever passed in US history. Designed to prevent a COVID depression, build US manufacturing, support western democracies and compete against chinese manufacturing, and to decarbonize the US to fight climate change.
Plus there was the whole clean up the trumpian COVID mess and support Ukraine being invaded by Russia.
I found a good list here: https://www.upworthy.com/joe-biden-s-23-greatest-achievements-as-president-of-the-united-states-so-far
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Passed the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure package to increase investment in the national network of bridges and roads, airports, public transport and national broadband internet, as well as waterways and energy systems.
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Helped get more than 500 million life-saving COVID-19 vaccinations in the arms of Americans through the American Rescue Plan.
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Stopped a 30-year streak of federal inaction on gun violence by signing the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act that created enhanced background checks, closed the “boyfriend” loophole and provided funds for youth mental health.
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Made a $369 billion investment in climate change, the largest in American history, through the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022.
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Ended the longest war in American history by pulling the troops out of Afghanistan.
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Provided $10,000 to $20,000 in college debt relief to Americans with loans who make under $125,000 a year.
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Cut child poverty in half through the American Rescue Plan.
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Capped prescription drug prices at $2,000 per year for seniors on Medicare through the Inflation Reduction Act.
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Passed the COVID-19 relief deal that provided payments of up to $1,400 to many struggling U.S. citizens while supporting renters and increasing unemployment benefits.
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Achieved historically low unemployment rates after the pandemic caused them to skyrocket.
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Imposed a 15% minimum corporate tax on some of the largest corporations in the country, ensuring that they pay their fair share, as part of the historic Inflation Reduction Act.
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Recommitted America to the global fight against climate change by rejoining the Paris Agreement.
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Strengthened the NATO alliance in support of Ukraine after the Russian invasion by endorsing the inclusion of world military powers Sweden and Finland.
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Authorized the assassination of the Al Qaeda terrorist Ayman al-Zawahiri, who became head of the organization after the death of Osama bin Laden.
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Gave Medicare the power to negotiate prescription drug prices through the Inflation Reduction Act while also reducing government health spending.
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Held Vladimir Putin accountable for his invasion of Ukraine by imposing stiff economic sanctions.
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Boosted the budget of the Internal Revenue Service by nearly $80 billion to reduce tax evasion and increase revenue.
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Created more jobs in one year (6.6 million) than any other president in U.S. history.
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Reduced healthcare premiums under the Affordable Care Act by $800 a year as part of the American Rescue Plan.
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Signed the PACT Act to address service members’ exposure to burn pits and other toxins.
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Signed the CHIPS and Science Act to strengthen American manufacturing and innovation.
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Reauthorized the Violence Against Women Act through 2027.
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Halted all federal executions after the previous administration reinstated them after a 17-year freeze.
Here’s what the Whitehouse says:
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This has been often speculated as being the cause of the “Stupid American” stereotype. Good decision
That seems implausible. Lead pipes are common pretty much everywhere and it’s usually not a problem due to a coating on the pipes.
It’s just an issue in the US because there’s been a few notable examples of that coating being damaged and causing contamination, which creates political will to do the replacements that everyone is doing at an accelerated pace.
Most places, in the US or not, just replace them during routine maintenance. The UK and Germany should have theirs replaced by 2100, if nothing comes up to make them accelerate the process.
hydrofluorosilicic acid is the cause of all the problems with lead pipes. It is being used as a replacement for standard fluoride
The US hasn’t been good about replacing pipes in general, there’s even a good amount that aren’t even documented in some areas.
Didn’t they pull out some wooden pipes somewhere in the US within the last couple years? I remember seeing an article about it.
I believe someone found wood pipes still in use, it may have been flint, since they got a complete overhaul of their pipes.
This year Germany passed a law to completely remove all lead pipes until January 2026.
But the allowed levels of lead in drinking water have already been lowered so much since 2013 (10 microgram per liter, this has been lowered again since to 5 microgram per liter) that any water that passed through a lead pipe cannot realistically fulfill the requirements, thus there are only extremely few households left with any lead in their pipes.
Coating the pipes is not a way out of this, since Germany has expressly forbidden this as a way to renovate.
Oh, I’m not saying we should coat the pipes, I’m saying that it’s not a massive continuous crisis is because there is a coating on the pipes created by the water treatment.
We definitely should replace all of them because that coating is too easy to damage and there’s no reason to take the risk, but “lead pipes” is unlikely to be a US specific health issue like was originally insinuated.
but “lead pipes” is unlikely to be a US specific health issue like was originally insinuated
With this I agree wholeheartedly, the biggest factors for differences between the rest of the developed world and the US, including USians being considered more agressive, less intelligent, less patient and with less empathy are definitely located in different fields.
Imho. culturally religiosity, difference in education, worldlyness and levels of societal cohesion are the biggest factors, along with good old prejudice against the militarily superior.
We’ll see how dumb Americans are in a generation or two. Hopefully this’ll fix it!
I’ve seen leaded gasoline cited, but not lead pipes.
There was lead in so many products in our parent’s generation, not just the water pipes and gasoline. Cosmetics and paint are also two notable ones that, combined with all the other sources of lead, increased exposure to hazardous levels.
Humans are just stupid, not just Americans.
This is great. 10 years seems long, but it is a huge project. Glad it will be started soon.
Edit: Aw shit. This is only a proposal. At least we are talking about it.
Huh, my reaction is how would you even find them all so quickly
There’s likely records of most currently used infrastructure. At least enough that the amount you have to go spelunking for would be negligible.
These are service lines, as in assuming all the mains are already lead-free, these are the feeds onto each house. Many of them owned by the homeowner, not the utility. An estimated 9 million of which are lead.
When’s the last time leaded pipes were allowed? Surely at least half a century ago. I find it hard to believe there are good records that old, for every house, many of which lines are not even owned by the utility.
I’m picturing something much more exhaustive, like:
- search for all properties over half a century old (or whenever the last time leaded pipes were allowed)
- filter out any with a record of replacing the service
- test. Goto every fricken one and test
I have no way of knowing what records the water utility has but my house is almost 80 years old and the town’s property records are awfully spotty. And I’m in one of the newer houses in my town - my search included some back to 1890
Edit: 1986. Leaded pipes were allowed that recently, wtf. ( and Florida is number one in leaded pipes remaining: that explains a lot)
I think they were banned that year but basically nobody installed them after the late 70s.
But yeah some places are dabbling with machine learning or algorithmic data set collection. Most are just using what historic records they have and doing shovel tests for the rest.
And within the home, there’s a lot of local, federally-funded programs where your water department will come out and test to see if you have lead pipes, and either help or completely cover the replacement costs.
I assume you can test the water at the outlet for lead.
Most of the time these pipes are not actually leeching lead into the water supply. Most of the time. The whole problem is kind of that it happens just often enough, and just locally enough that monitoring doesn’t catch it immediately.
The water authority where I live makes a point of saying they keep the water on the alkaline side to prevent leaching lead from pipes and solder. Presumably that costs money
They must know where at least some of them are so I guess they can start with those and work outwards on the connection. After all I lead the pipe is likely connected to another lead pipe.
Then I guess it’s just a matter of doing a lot of water monitoring for the remaining pipes.
Nope, you have to use historic records or dig holes in the ground. Lead Service Line Inventory projects can take a while, and many cities are already going as fast as they can.
30+ years after we found out they were bad for us “guys, we should talk about replacing those pipes…”
Good. Drinking water is easy more important than many people realize. I hope we are always updating our pipes to the current standards.
Lots of other pipes have been replaced, it’s just a few hours that are left. Detroit, Pittsburgh and other older cities.
This is a hugely underrated win imo. We have no idea the damage lead is doing to us, we can only guess the damage in health problems is in the billions. Politicians usually don’t give a shit about this so for Biden to do so is a big outstretched hand and big achievement
Republican might loose a lot of it’s voter base
It’s a win, but not really underrated. We can test for lead easily in both the water supply and people, there are some isolated areas it’s bad, but it’s not a problem in most areas.
Why suit man take my sweet water?
I know the GOP will hate this plan, and want people dumber.
Can you imagine if this turns out to be the thing that was needed to calm you lot down?
In a major new study (conducted decades ago) it turns out that Lead in your water/food/air is bad for you
People used to use leaded gas in cars, planes…hell…maybe even trains. Naturally, this was bad for you. Some planes still use leaded gas!
