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  • Eager Eagle@lemmy.worldEnglish
    252·
    1 year ago

    As a non-native speaker I’m surprised to the amount of grammar mistakes native speakers make. Being a native speaker is not a testament to how much of the language you know. And even that being true, it’s not like a real human corrects your text, so the creators being native or not is pretty much irrelevant.

        • CaptObvious
          4·
          1 year ago

          They’d’ve gotten it wrong too. Prepositions and postpositions are their own category of linguistic hell, especially in idioms and phrasal verbs.

          • SheeEttin@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            1 year ago

            They’dn’t’ve necessarily gotten it wrong. With a big enough dataset, an ML tool should be pretty accurate, at least in that it will make the same choices as most people have made in their writing.

            • CaptObvious
              21·
              1 year ago

              They’d’n’tve

              Apostrophe mistakes aside, no native speaker would stack contractions like this. There’s an upper limit of three words in a single contracted form. It would be “They wouldn’t’ve gotten” or “They’d not’ve gotten.”

              ML tools don’t write grammatically correct complex sentences precisely because their training sets contain too many discrepancies. They may learn how to apply prescriptive rules consistently one day, perhaps even one day soon, but this is not that day.

              • SheeEttin@lemmy.worldEnglish
                3·
                1 year ago

                Who says there’s an upper limit? You might not be one of those people, but I’m.

                Also, that’ll teach me to try to write tricky comments while also doing other things. Fixed.

                • CaptObvious
                  11·
                  1 year ago

                  Who says there’s an upper limit?

                  Well, linguists say it. But you do you, friend.

                  Also, that’ll teach me to try to write tricky comments while also doing other things.

                  LOL! Right there with you. If I had a dollar for every time this happens to me…. 😄

    • CaptObvious
      72·
      1 year ago

      Native speakers don’t usually make major grammar mistakes. They may not follow prescriptive rules, but they’re generally understandable by other native speakers because grammar is so deeply embedded in their subconscious that they can’t help handling the language correctly. You do the same in your native language. Everyone does.

      The problem with non-natives, and I include myself as a non-native speaker of a few languages, is that we don’t usually have the same instincts. It would be pretty arrogant to tell a native that they don’t know how to use their own language when we, almost by definition, cannot possibly understand it in the same way that they do.

      • merde alors@sh.itjust.works
        3·
        1 year ago

        well said/written

        it’s not only that “we don’t usually have the same instincts”, we have a burden of confusing loans, imports, translations, false friends &c.

        When you start dealing with gendered languages, it’s even worse. There’s no logic to it. A hand is a she in one language, a he in another and neutral in third.

        also, this pronoun question of culture wars is ridiculous for someone who can speak non-gendered languages 🤷

        • CaptObvious
          2·
          1 year ago

          (Love your handle)

          I get what you’re saying about gendered languages. But if you speak one long enough, even as a non-native, you’ll start to develop a feel for genders and be able to predict them to some degree. So far as I know, the mechanism that determines gender is so deeply subconscious that no one has been able to find and articulate its rules, but it seems to exist.

          Re: culture wars - The pronoun question is probably moot point in truly genderless languages. English, unfortunately, is not completely genderless, so it’s a bone of contention in the current climate.