Hilarious. Logitech’s software has always been an afterthought and now they want me to pay for it? Goooo fuck yourselves. I had to sell a perfectly good keyboard and mouse because their stupid g-hub is harder to navigate than a g-spot.
It kept doing updates and every time it did, it would clobber all my macros and bindings and basically factory reset. I had a txt document on my desktop with all my configs so I could set them back up whenever it decided the configuration gods required a sacrifice.
…I feel sorry for your girlfriend/wife.
Go on, tell us how you work the spot, G Man.
You basically have to go behind the clitoris and stimulate it from the back while working it from the front with your tongue.
Damn you got a lucky mouse
Almost spat out my food, thanks
Our boys dick looks like the lower case letter ‘u’ well done
🤷♂️ My girl just lays on top of me and rides up and down along me, and that seems to do the trick. Not every time, mind you. But that’s the position that does it, if it happens.
Which is freaking great for me because I love that position. 🤤 Lots of skin on skin.
For hours.
Hours! Then you ain’t hittin’ it, son.
My girlfriend doesn’t have one, teehee 🤭
G-hub also doesn’t work on Linux, which is actually a massive advantage. I use Solaar with a couple of shell scripts and it’s amazing. (edit) Actually it’s a Python app, so it might even work on Windows.
I’ve also had to blacklist the HID++ kernel module because high-res scrolling on a loose, mushy ratcheting wheel is awful.
I started boycotting them when they started forcing a program to be downloaded, installed and run automatically on any pc running Windows 10 just by plugging a Logitech mouse/keyboard in to the USB port.
It installes through Windows Update, and is called Logitech Download Helper.
I am fine with Windows Update supplying and installing drivers, but using it to deploy program is scummy…
So now, I am on Xtrfy mice and Ducky keyboards.
G Hub doesn’t work with my old trusty G11 keyboard either. Since it’s both required for Logitech’s newer peripherals and also requires uninstalling the old Logitech Gaming Software which would reduce the functionality of my keyboard, it effectively banishes any future consideration for Logitech’s peripherals.
It’s basically moot since I run Linux now, but I don’t fancy the quality of Logitech’s products either these days. It’s a shame since their stuff used to be really solid. My X540 speakers are as old as my keyboard (16 years) and also refuse to die.
Oh man I was hoping this would be a sub for alternatives to subscriptions, rather than just pointing out that everything is going to a subscription model.
It’s not against the rules of that community to post alternatives. I suspect the community members would love that.
Alternative to subscription based mouse…any other fucking mouse. Hell, I’d rather use that piece of crap they sell at walgreens for $15.99. It looks like crap, has only 2 buttons, is wired, but it doesn’t have a damn subscription.
I like my Intellimouse Pro. I haven’t had a single issue with clicking or scrolling for as long as I’ve had it (5+ years?). It’s a bit pricey, but it works well. I’ve spent more replacing Logitech mice in the time I’ve had that one.
I got two like that from China for about 2 bucks each, shipping included.
Nowadays a shitty 15 cent microcontroller comes with built-in USB hardware support and you can use the manufacturer’s libraries or even Arduino to make it talk as a keyboard or mouse with any computer (which doesn’t even need drivers since support for it is built-in) and it’s actually the mechanical stuff that’s the most expensive bit.
There really is no reason or need to endure this mouse subscription shit.
are mice not supposed to have only 2 buttons??? (excluding scroll wheel)
Mine has left click, right click, scroll wheel, back, forward, and a programable button which I use to switch windows.
My Halo account name is fuckmandatorysignins@personalDomain.com
Fuck you Microsoft, fuck you Logitech, if the Internet goes down, I’m fucked…
I always give “companyname@personaldomain.com”
That way datasets are harder to correlate and I know who leaked 😝
That’s what I’ve been doing since 2002. If I get spam, I set up a forward to their customer service.
Lol! I need to start doing something like this when one of those email addresses eventually ends up in a breach. :D
Be wary though, it might get your domain blacklisted for spam. I’ve been lucky so far.
Good to know! Thanks for the warning. c: My default course of action will likely be just disabling the old alias and making a new one.
Oh neat, I think I might subscribe to that community.
Wait a goddamned minute
A comment on the article: “I will go back to a command line before I pay a fucking subscription for a mouse.”
A mouse is not a complex device. African countries can produce computer mice. I mean, using USB requires paying for the license and circuitry for the USB controller, which is why I hate USB for simple periphery, older interfaces solve the problem better. Anyways, they can produce USB mice too. They can even easier produce PS/2 mice.
Damn, that’s pretty racist. You know I come from an “African country” that produces Mercedes right, or like, did the first heart transplant.
Im not sure what you’re trying to infer by what you’re saying, like we’re all some backwards ass fuckwits with 0 ability to do anything? Fuck, we used to produce our own RAM at a stage. Nuclear bombs even.
South Africa excluded as a former colonial state.
Im not sure what you’re trying to infer by what you’re saying, like we’re all some backwards ass fuckwits with 0 ability to do anything? Fuck, we used to produce our own RAM at a stage. Nuclear bombs even.
I live in Russia, I could have written “ex-USSR and African countries” so that you’d not feel offended. Would have the same meaning.
Point being having actual electronics production and not assembly.
The irony of somebody from Russia calling anywhere else a shithole is just profound. Don’t you guys have to pour water in your toilets to flush them? The rest of the world has indoor plumbing mate, even Africa.
Anyway everyone knows that China produces all of the cheap crap anyway, so why wouldn’t you go at them?
Don’t you guys have to pour water in your toilets to flush them?
Are you high or something? Why would we?
The rest of the world has indoor plumbing mate, even Africa.
I would expect an entire continent to have some variability.
Anyway everyone knows that China produces all of the cheap crap anyway, so why wouldn’t you go at them?
China produces all of the crap. Without the “cheap” constraint.
Russia is a shithole
Not in every dimension, but in that of producing computer mice yes it is. Which is all that is relevant to this conversation.
By the way, I know that sub-Saharan Africa in general is becoming better very fast, and that Sahel has record population growth, and that Africa as a continent has bright future.
While Russia may hope for that only after a fucking revolution.
These are just irrelevant.
deleted by creator
I’m not trying to disagree here but I was curious, this is what I discovered:
"Yes, it is possible to make a USB device without paying the licensing fee, but there are limitations and risks involved:
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No USB Logo: You won’t be able to use the official USB logo on your product or marketing materials. The USB logo signifies that the product has passed compliance testing and adheres to USB standards.
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Compliance Issues: Without certification, there is no guarantee that your device will be fully compliant with USB specifications. This could lead to interoperability issues with other USB devices and systems.
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Legal Risks: Using USB technology without proper licensing and certification might expose you to legal risks if the USB-IF enforces its intellectual property rights.
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Market Perception: Consumers and businesses often prefer certified products as they are deemed reliable and trustworthy. Lacking certification might affect your product’s market acceptance.
Despite these challenges, some manufacturers choose to proceed without licensing, especially for low-cost or experimental products. However, for commercial and mass-market products, obtaining proper certification is generally advisable to ensure quality and legal compliance."
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Isn’t USB like…a mandatory standard now on all devices?
It’s complex enough if you are making some hobbyist device.
I’m imagining some world with production of anything related to personal computers being as decentralized as that of hand screwdrivers.
In that context USB is complex.
USB is better for modern computing since it doesnt operate on an interrupt basis, like PS2, that’s the problem with PS2, USB is polling based, so it always calls, which also means it’s a lot more versatile and flexible, because you can just call and receive whatever the fuck you want from it.
If you were to use PS2 today, you would likely see a significant performance impact.
Apparently nobody understood in which context this was said.
I meant a Star Wars Expanded Universe-like or solarpunk-like or some other imagined future (but with that element of utopia) world where computers are produced as widely as screwdrivers, are more modular and interoperable and competencies are also more widespread, and where computing is radically simpler due to these two requirements. Because you can’t have TSMC fabs everywhere.
USB is by far too complex a protocol for this when you don’t necessarily need it.
Also many motherboards still have PS/2 , no significant performance impacts, you might have mixed something up. Anyway, from a computer mouse you don’t need much.
Also many motherboards still have PS/2
it’s mostly a legacy thing, either industry boards which are used with windows 95, or boards that just include PS2 because, features™
no significant performance impacts
well, part of the problem is that in order to handle mouse inputs, the PS2 calls an interrupt which stops the entire cpu and forces it to focus on the user input, until it kills it likely over a cycle count metric, and then returns back to what it was doing, though perhaps this was back in the day when interrupts were more common, i wouldn’t be surprised if modern PS2 is just conversion into USB lmao.
you can argue that USB is complex, and it’s not all that complex, it’s just serialized data transmission, the benefit of it’s “complexity” being the massively increased transmission bandwidth compared to something like serial, which is like 32kb/s historically.
Yes, I know. I should clarify that all this was in the context of some imagined future sustainable computing with decentralized production and a bit of luddism.
As in “how would we live in spacefaring future if the PCs we could have were all comparable to Amiga 500”.
that’s definitely an interesting thought, i would figure it’s probably the most primitive source of communication, I.E. directly managed serial, or probably ethernet, which has an extremely broad range of applications, and standards, from anything from coaxial cables and ring networks, to twisted pair serialized transmission and switched tree networks.
I’ve already got a “forever mouse”.
I plug it in, it needs no updates because it’s a fucking mouse.
I was intrigued by the idea, I was like, “oooh a modular mouse where it could be a trackball or vertical mouse or multi-sensor components with obvious replacement parts that they’d sell to make it easy on repair”!
Then I saw software and I’m like wtf? do I look like I need something else to Crowdstrike me? “Can’t work today boss, credit card didn’t update my mouse subscription hang on…”
corporate brain rot
Uh, what would I be paying for, exactly? I don’t really see what Software support a mouse really needs, as long as it doesn’t ship buggy. Also, I’ve been using my (Logitech, funnily) mouse for 6 years now, and if you ignore the few scratches it has gathered, it still works pretty much perfectly.
Also, if their solution for a longer lasting mouse really is repairability, isn’t that just their way of saying “we designed our other products to be thrown away”?
You would be paying for the privilege of using a Logitech mouse of course!
The company has to grow indefinitely and you my friendly consumer are the back on which they will walk to do so.
Don’t worry I’m sure they’ll never acquire smaller and successful manufacturers that risk undermining their profit structures.
You’ve had more luck than us. My wife went through two Logitech G305s in like 2 years, so I switched her to a Razor DeathAddr and she’s been much happier.
At work, I use macOS so I went with MX Master 3 and had constant issues with the thumb button not working. It’s better now (I guess their SW improved?), and ironically I had far fewer issues with my Triathlon (when I WFH), which is much cheaper.
On my personal devices (Linux), I use Microsoft Intellimouse Pro. It has been solid for over 5 years. I plugged it in and it just works. The only thing remarkable about it is how little I think about it, it clicks, scrolls, and reads input consistently. If Logitech could do that, I’d probably buy more of their stuff, but I’ve mostly had issues.
It’s a MX Master 2S, funnily enough. I still have a over 10 year old working M705 Marathon, on second thought, that I had once bought for my laptop. Had to open it up and bend the mechanism for the left click back into shape once, but no Problems besides.
Make it repairable if you want it to last forever.
I think cleanable is more important.
I had a Razer Diamondback for like 20 years, and let me tell you, the insides of that were not a pretty sight when I took it apart to work out why the mouse wheel was glitchy. Two decades of crumbs and pubes and assorted hand gunk.
Plus the rubber tends to get a bit tacky after a while, and I’m not sure of a good way to clean that.
I think ten years is a decent lifespan for something I use all the time like that. More is a bonus, but I’m happy to replace after that time.
Mice seem to be a stagnant tech, not sure I need another one for the rest of my life… if I could fix middle wheel click and replace parts like the rubber side that has worn away.
Cleaning is maintenance, a part of repair in my eyes 😊
It’s like TEL9 (a piece of technology that is so perfected, that at this point there’s no further improvements that can be made to it, see the paper clip, TEL10 is literally obsolete technology like the bow and arrow). The weird thing is there are companies out there that still seem to think that they can make money off of TEL9 tech.
No one thinks they can make big bucks off of paper clips, but CEO’s brains turn to mush as soon as it’s got a circuit board.
That was specifically one of the goals talked about in the actual interview and the CEO spent a lot more time on that than the topic in the headline.
Lol I actually had to check to make sure this wasn’t published on April 1st. Missed joke opportunity, this is hilarious
This is so absurd. The only updates peripherals need are firmware bug fixes. And it’s a standard that these updates are free. Having subscriptions for hardware is kinda dystopic tbh
From the podcast:
Some only have a mouse or only a keyboard, but many of them have both. But the thing that shocked me was that the average spend on that globally is $26, which is really so low. This is stuff you use every day, that sits on your desk every day, that you look at every day. That’s like the price of four coffees at Starbucks or less than a Nike running shirt. There is so much room to create more value in that space as we make people more productive — to extend human potential.
You know why on average people spend so little? Because a mouse is just a mouse. It doesn’t need to do anything besides controlling the cursor. It doesn’t need a “dedicated AI button that launches Logi AI Prompt Builder” (which is just a ChatGPT wrapper btw)
I don’t want to be that one person that just complains about capitalism under every post, but things like this make it hard. We have already perfected the design of a mouse. But every year publicly traded companies need to make more money than in the previous year, so let’s add subscriptions to everything. And also AI, because investors love it
Having subscriptions for hardware
actually how i understand that model, the subscription would not be for the “hardware” (which you would still have to ‘buy’ and pay for all of its repairs by yourself) but only for the software which would actually block you from using your own hardware if you stop paying the then-later-by-them-to-be-definded-price for the ‘licence’ to use that software, rendering the hardware a useless piece of junkscrap whenever and as long as they whish or their cloud runs on MShitsoft or is maybe ClownStricken, MacAfff’ed, CEO’ed, CTO’ed, Shareholder’ed or such).
That f*up-idea is afaik explicitly NOT a renting model for hardware where they’ld had to make sure that it actually works before you have to pay the rent, but only a licensing software for that only software that is vendor-locked-in on that vendor-poisoned hardware.
As i know myself, i guess i’ll discontinue to buy or suggest any of their stuff for a few decades from now, for that “idea” only.
Have a nice® day without logitech!
Yeah, apparently the subscription for the mouse would be on top of the upfront cost. I’m honestly baffled that Logitech’s CEO thinks anyone would buy it, this feels like an april fools joke
Wait so the subscription literally doesn’t cover anything it’s just the money I pay to Logitech for no reason?
I just skimmed through the podcast so I might be wrong, but it looks like the subscription would only cover updates to their AI “features”:
‘[…] is there a vision beyond “the software will do more for you” than just drive your mouse around?’
[…] Should the mouse do more than just move the cursor? Absolutely. And it does that today, and I think similarly about being more productive with shortcuts to the large language models and all kinds of other things. The guy that I met at a barbecue over the weekend who has programmed 120 shortcuts on his mouse, that’s the kind of stuff that can extend human potential in ways that are healthier.
i believe such happens only bcs society lets people into such positions without checking them to be fit in any way for anything except them having a bank account for receiving millions and a lawyer to check contracts and tell them what they should not say in public and receive parts of these millions in return for changing their customers “pampers”.
or maybe that brainfart was just part of a trip on randomly mind altering illegal substances? or maybe a brain tumor? or maybe a brain parasite? or maybe a parasite brain? or maybe just normal capitalism? or maybe a tumor that grows in society?
i guess we will never know for sure.
What can I say? I see “Capitalism bad” and I upvote.
I agree. We collectively overconsume, where are the manufacturers with pride in building quality devices that just work?
I’m a hardware engineer, I’d be embarrassed to release some of the shit I’ve seen onto the market for public consumption.
The rules are simple: solid state where you can, robust enclosures that can withstand common cleaners & IV exposure, geometry that makes it difficult for those cleaning fluids to get into the electronics. That’s it, you’ve got most people covered with a reliable device to interact with daily. Pinch pennies on the RGB LEDs, not the housing!
But the thing that shocked me was that the average spend on that globally is $26, which is really so low.
Yeah because it’s a mouse. What extra features is it going to have if I paid $100.
I will learn to build a mouse and write my own damn drivers first.
I actually know how to do this off the top of my head and you don’t need to write a driver for it, you could simply use an Arduino Micro.
The Micro (and other Arduino-compatible Atmel ATMEGA 32u4-based microcontrollers) have native USB support so they have a library you can import that will work with generic USB keyboard/mouse drivers. It would be up to you to rig up the sensors and buttons, make a case and write a little firmware.
Nice! Thank you!
Coming from the same side as you, in my experience just about any microcontroller that includes USB hardware support (which is very common even in the stupidly cheap ones) has software support for acting as a mouse or keyboard, not just via the Arduino framework but also in the manufacturer’s libraries.
This is because the comms for that stuff in USB is an USB standard called USB HID (stands for Human Interface Device) which works not just for mice and keyboards but also for stuff like joysticks, game controllers and so on.
Meanwhile on the computer side, also because of all of this being standardized, support comes include in the OS and no drivers are needed. In fact even back in Windows 7 when you might need to install a driver, all that the “driver” was, was a text file telling the OS to, for a USB device with a specific ID (USB devices identify themselves using a two number code), use the OS’ built-in USB HID support.
Nowadays the difficult part in making a good mouse or a keyboard is the mechanical side, not the hardware or software.
Unsurprisingly you can buy a basic mouse for 2 bucks from places like Aliexpress that’s actually decent and reliable.
I really have no clue how Logitech expects to get away with this idea of theirs. Maybe they intend to leverage Brand loyalty for it?
Yeah what Arduino brings to the table is easily purchasable electronics and reference material/tutorials written for middle schoolers and not electrical engineers to understand. They invent basically nothing but make things more accessible.
The thing I would need to do the most googling on is the actual XY sensor. I don’t know off the top of my head how available an optical mouse sensor is, or if you’d have to build a ball mouse, etc. I have occasionally played with USB HIDs but never for anything legitimate.
When companies that sell physical products like peripherals (as an example) try to invoke the subscription model, it just says that they are failing and desperate for profits. Which means that other products are available and better.
I’m kind of surprised they haven’t decided to do what MS does with controller, or smart watch manufacturers do with watch bands. Create unique collectible colors, have a design lab, etc. Let people treat mice like sunglasses. A fashion accessory that you occasionally change or augment for aesthetic reasons.
I don’t need a new mouse ever year, but I might be down to change it’s shell.
Please don’t. we already produce and waste a lot of plastic as it is
Except their mice are built better and last longer than any of the popular gaming brands. I’ve owned 4 logitech nice in my life and that would be every mouse I’ve owned since 1995 and only one of those actually died. People complain about their razer mice lasting 3 years and then go out and buy another one as if that’s normal meanwhile you can easily get 5+ years out of a logitech mouse.
I have owned 3 G203 mice (never again) and they have all failed the same way, with the left mouse button switch failing and causing double clicks/inability to select anything without resetting.
Quality must depend on which model you get.
I only go for their higher end productivity mice so I can’t say much about their gaming gear. It seems like gaming mice, regardless of the brand, typically have shorter lifespans. Either that or gamers are just more vocal when there are issues.
5 years isn’t a long lifespan.
Only one ever died on me (brother spilled beer on it) and that was after 6ish years. The rest were upgrades to newer models. My current mouse (mx master) is coming up on 8 years and I’m debating between replacing the battery or getting a newer model but it still works as well as it ever has.
I used to only buy logitech, but having a $125. mouse freak out after a few years, and I never game, that’s sad.
What the actual ever living fuck happened in their brain to create this thought
Endless meetings all focused around creating value for shareholders at any expense
Capitalism
They’re putting fentanyl in the cocaine now.
That’s just it - his brain is in a state of decay.
I think she’s a her in this case.
I only saw “exec” in the description, mb.
I have an idea for Logitech: Go fuck yourselves
I will stop using a mouse and get really good with hotkeys rather than pay a subscription.
Tiling window managers and vim keybindings are your friends
Nah, emacs keybindings are better for things like window managers, and I say this as a vim-o-phile. Use emacs-style keybindings for anything interactive, use vim-style keybindings for text.
I do this as much as I can already, but certain tasks have no hotkey in aware of :/
Gonna be trapped in a VM forever when my mouse dies.
Then they’ll make you get a keyboard subscription…
