There were pro-Nazi Jewish people in Germany until they came for them too.
There’s always some people within a population who just choose to side with power, even power that loathes them, in hopes they’ll become a favorite pet.
Famously, Mother Jones didn’t believe in women’s suffrage. She believed it was a distraction from class warfare.
I tend to align more with Simone de Beauvoir who saw women as a disadvantaged class as well. I think it’s a helpful lens for how we consider gender dynamics and patriarchal structures.
Agreed. And if I can just add as to point out the fluid dynamics of modern post-constructionalism as seen through the lens of and espoused by such pioneering women as Marjorie Jacqueline Bouvier-Simpson.
Let me preface this by saying that I am 100% pro-choice, and that I agree with the spirit of your comment, but…
This argument doesn’t work. It’s like saying “if you believe in the value of human life, don’t go on a murder spree.”
These people legitimately believe that aborting a fetus is just as wrong as killing a child/adult, and that it is their moral duty to prevent all types of murder.
And I’m saying their beliefs are religious, and religious beliefs are not the basis of our laws.
There are people who legitimately believe that stepping on the Koran, or discarding the Eucharist, or believing a different faith is a crime worthy of punishment, and it is their moral duty to prevent those crimes, too. That’s not an argument to make something illegal, in fact it’s an argument specifically prohibited by the Constitution of the United States.
People believe all sorts of crazy shit, and while I respect rheir right to believe it, they have no right to force that belief on others.
Which is the crux of the issue. Nobody is forcing them to have an abortion, they’re forcing other people to not. It’s non of their business what other people do with their own body.
Even allowing for the unproven assertion that souls exist, at no point does that soul obligate giving up bodily autonomy.
You can’t use organs from corpses without permission, you can’t force a drunk driver to provide an organ to a kid they ran over, you can’t force a parent to donate an organ to their own child. All of these things would save “souls” but is hardly part of pro-forced birth platforms.
And if fetuses have souls, that would surely make the Christian god the true murderer as 10 to 20% of all pregnancies end in miscarriages, but the Christian god is held to a lower moral standard than human beings by pro-forced birthers. And the governments that reject welfare programs are also held to lower moral standard for some reason, as well.
You don’t need to agree with the women who oppose abortion because they believe a fetus has a soul in order to accept that these women do in fact oppose abortion because they believe a fetus has a soul. I’m not arguing that they’re right but only that they have their reasons, which they aren’t secretive about. People who wonder “how could women vote for Republicans” are ignoring the straightforward explanation that those women readily provide.
It’s stupid and completely unfounded in any medical science regarding when the Fetus is actually a living human being.
Show me a woman who claims she genuinely would see a fetus in a jar and an infant newborn as equally worth saving in a crisis and I will show you a woman who swears she’d have totally been a punk rock abolitionist if she was around in the South in the antebellum years.
Also it literally isn’t sincere belief, the Bible has exactly one thing to say about abortion, and that’s how to perform one via medicine.
People like to forget that we live in a country with a huge deeply religious population, and that women are more likely to be anti abortion than men are.
Stockholm Syndrome is the only explanation for women continuing to support Republicans
There were anti suffrage women’s groups.
There were pro-Nazi Jewish people in Germany until they came for them too.
There’s always some people within a population who just choose to side with power, even power that loathes them, in hopes they’ll become a favorite pet.
The log cabin Republicans come to mind.
Famously, Mother Jones didn’t believe in women’s suffrage. She believed it was a distraction from class warfare.
I tend to align more with Simone de Beauvoir who saw women as a disadvantaged class as well. I think it’s a helpful lens for how we consider gender dynamics and patriarchal structures.
Agreed. And if I can just add as to point out the fluid dynamics of modern post-constructionalism as seen through the lens of and espoused by such pioneering women as Marjorie Jacqueline Bouvier-Simpson.
The pro Nazi Jews are actually kinda funny in a horrifically dark way
They even had a chant! “Down with us! Down with us!”
No it’s not.
They genuinely believe that only bad people need abortions.
Only bad people get raped?
What about women running as republicans?
Especially women running as Republicans
The word you are looking for is “pick-me”
Um, what about the belief that an unborn fetus has a soul? That’s a belief that tens of millions of American women sincerely hold…
That belief is unsupported by scripture, but even if it was, religious beliefs should not be the basis for federal law.
If you believe an unborn fetus has a soul, don’t have an abortion.
Let me preface this by saying that I am 100% pro-choice, and that I agree with the spirit of your comment, but…
This argument doesn’t work. It’s like saying “if you believe in the value of human life, don’t go on a murder spree.”
These people legitimately believe that aborting a fetus is just as wrong as killing a child/adult, and that it is their moral duty to prevent all types of murder.
And I’m saying their beliefs are religious, and religious beliefs are not the basis of our laws.
There are people who legitimately believe that stepping on the Koran, or discarding the Eucharist, or believing a different faith is a crime worthy of punishment, and it is their moral duty to prevent those crimes, too. That’s not an argument to make something illegal, in fact it’s an argument specifically prohibited by the Constitution of the United States.
People believe all sorts of crazy shit, and while I respect rheir right to believe it, they have no right to force that belief on others.
Wrongly, because the Bible not only doesn’t condemn it but actually gives instructions on how to perform one. (Numbers 5:11-31)
Also, souls haven’t been proven to exist, so it’s kind of moot.
They are welcome to hold any religious beliefs they want, but they have no right to force others to adhere to that belief.
Which is the crux of the issue. Nobody is forcing them to have an abortion, they’re forcing other people to not. It’s non of their business what other people do with their own body.
Even allowing for the unproven assertion that souls exist, at no point does that soul obligate giving up bodily autonomy.
You can’t use organs from corpses without permission, you can’t force a drunk driver to provide an organ to a kid they ran over, you can’t force a parent to donate an organ to their own child. All of these things would save “souls” but is hardly part of pro-forced birth platforms.
And if fetuses have souls, that would surely make the Christian god the true murderer as 10 to 20% of all pregnancies end in miscarriages, but the Christian god is held to a lower moral standard than human beings by pro-forced birthers. And the governments that reject welfare programs are also held to lower moral standard for some reason, as well.
You don’t need to agree with the women who oppose abortion because they believe a fetus has a soul in order to accept that these women do in fact oppose abortion because they believe a fetus has a soul. I’m not arguing that they’re right but only that they have their reasons, which they aren’t secretive about. People who wonder “how could women vote for Republicans” are ignoring the straightforward explanation that those women readily provide.
If they can’t give a reason that’s internally consistent why should I believe them?
This is the internet in 2024. You can only be “Right” or “Wrong” and that depends on which color flag the topic falls under, unfortunately.
I’m slowly giving up on even trying to highlight any shades of grey. The goal on both sides seems to be “Shoot first, as questions later.”
Just hoping cooler heads prevail.
Religious beliefs are irrelevant outside of the personal life.
Most people don’t even follow their religion RAW. Bunch of munchkins running bullshit homebrew rulings.
It’s stupid and completely unfounded in any medical science regarding when the Fetus is actually a living human being.
Show me a woman who claims she genuinely would see a fetus in a jar and an infant newborn as equally worth saving in a crisis and I will show you a woman who swears she’d have totally been a punk rock abolitionist if she was around in the South in the antebellum years.
Also it literally isn’t sincere belief, the Bible has exactly one thing to say about abortion, and that’s how to perform one via medicine.
God gaveth unto the Jews, the pill.
It’s a belief they have only because they were told to believe it. I can’t respect that.
People like to forget that we live in a country with a huge deeply religious population, and that women are more likely to be anti abortion than men are.