• lennybird@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Do keep in mind these aggressive purist Gatekeeping / no true Scot leftists are very often just right-wing astroturfers. It hits two birds with one stone: they make leftism obnoxious, they often muddy the waters of violence, and wedge-drive the Democratic coalition to get Trump elected.

    Either that or they’re very young and naive.

    Don’t fall for it. You’ll see more of this the closer the election gets.

    • Admiral Patrick@dubvee.org
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      8 months ago

      Oh, I’m not fooled (for the most part, anyway). I’m just giving the benefit of doubt and calling them out using their own arguments and trying to not make any assumptions or accusations.

      • lennybird@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        The problem is they don’t often argue in good faith. Usually deflection and gish-gallop are their MO. So be concise and be mindful of the bystander audience.

    • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
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      8 months ago

      Spot fucking on, but its that second group, the young and naive that make these points worth arguing and harping on about. Sometimes those of us whove been online our whole lives forget the indoctrinating power of the internet. Shit, thats what pushed me further and further left, and still does to this day.

      And ur last sentence… oof… i know… brace yourselves, and kick up the counterefforts.

      • lennybird@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Great point - I don’t mean to disparage those newcomers to politics. We’ve all been there of course.

        I guess I gate-kept a bit there myself, and my apologies for that.

        • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
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          8 months ago

          No no no! I didn’t take it that way at all, just wanted to add the clarification i figured u left out.

          I figured if u were gatekeeping against youth u wouldnt have even bothered to comment at all. Sorry if i sounded like i was putting down ur point for it, u were saying something i think we all could hear more on this platform. Esp as the tankies pretend that the presence of bad faith actors on lemmy trying to hand the election to sr. Racismo via non-voting/third party voting is not existent.

            • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
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              8 months ago

              I feel like i dispense a lot of thank yous and encouragement to everyone else to keep it up. It feels nice to be on the receiving end so randomly. Thanks dude. Made me smile, for real <3

            • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
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              8 months ago

              Aight im back to say, im rereading this thread and some of ur other comments above (about astroturfing leading the young esp) go so hard.

              So me fight the good fight? You, you sir keep fighting the good fight. As in the present tense. As in u have been. Dont stop.

              Solidarity to u and all other leftist speakers and activists seeking change by whichever means they know how…

              Just leave some in the bank for when election season is upon us…

              • lennybird@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                Aw thanks and likewise — comments like yours really help to shatter all the depression and gaslighting that gets spread and restores some semblance of sanity :)

                And don’t worry about losing steam! I’m amped up for the election year and will only continue to ramp it up! I have frankly too many ideas to enhance my personal impact on the election and need to get better organized lol.

                • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
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                  8 months ago

                  Please do.

                  For all the “Russian Shill” tags i dispense with on here, urs is one of the first im tagging as “Comrade.”

                  Its time to start thinking about collecting ourselves on this platform to fight against the misinformation, gaslighting, and just outright foreign interference we see here. We owe to the newcomers for this platform to not just be a hive of, “voting is genocide 😱.”

                  I want solidarity. Solidarity between anyone leftward leaning. If a righty has a leftist idea, it must be backed. If status quo joe wants to reunite even one family separated at the border, we should back the notion.

          • Sybil@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            the tankies pretend that the presence of bad faith actors on lemmy trying to hand the election to sr. Racismo via non-voting/third party voting is not existent.

            if it existed, why haven’t you ever produced any evidence of it?

            • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
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              8 months ago

              Bc im not wasting my time on yall. Im not going to participate in what will either turn into a gush gallop or gaslighting. Uve got it in this thread. U got it all over hexbear and .ml.

              Thanks for caring enough to follow tho 🥰

              • Sybil@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                a claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, and no one should believe your claims unless you support them.

      • lennybird@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        No but I can prove they’re short-sighted; and those two things go hand-in-hand. In my experience I’ve frankly yet to see someone older than like 22-years-old espouse such self-defeating beliefs and goals.

        I can also prove that right-wing extremists engage in political astroturfing routinely and that according to investigative reporting these far-right groups intend to muddy the waters.

        Taken from there, it takes very little ink (inductive reasoning) to connect the dots.

          • lennybird@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            EDIT: Observe the user below spamming multiple replies to the same comment. This is part of the gaslighting gish-gallop tactic I’ve noted. There is a user here I suspect of having many alt accounts and who frequently does this. I encourage you to report them for spam.

            what methodology is available to you to prove such an accusation?

            If I may, a thing called logic.

            • If your goal is to minimize genocide, both in Palestine and Ukraine.
            • If your goal is to ensure that we don’t fall further into fascism.
            • If the choices on the ballot in November are a constant, regardless of anything else that happens.
            • If you understand the nature of entropy in that maintaining let alone building-upon a trillion-piece puzzle is exceedingly more taxing than smashing it.
            • If other guy is significantly-worse for Ukrainians, Palestinians, US, and the World.
            • If you understand the mathematical trend of FPTP and the Spoiler Effect.

            … Then one understands the logical choice is voting for Biden and doing anything else from not voting, voting Republican, voting 3rd-party, writing-in – is utterly self-defeating and short-sighted to the aforementioned goals.

            If you don’t understand these things, then yes, one might have built their ardent beliefs atop a house of cards.