John Deere brags about sabotaging competitors & customers on hot mic - they’re PROUD of it!
Corporations would have us all subscribe to the oxygen supply if they could.
Take apart all the things. Reverse engineer their shit. Create open alternatives. Fuck all these monsters. John Deere, Apple, Samsung, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, everybody included.
Meanwhile, Valve: Here’s how you can rip apart our handheld computer, we don’t recommend it, but it’s yours so who gives a shit?
Also, here’s our distribution platform where you can buy your games but have no physical medium, so if the game gets pulled you could lose access to it even though you won’t get your money back.
Valve might be better, but they are far from perfect.
If your favorite game gets pulled, so long as it’s not a requirement to be connected to the internet to use it, just pirate it. There is no better option if you purchased a game and it gets removed than to just flat out pirate it instead of buying a new copy, if you ask me. Just save your money in that case instead of going to another platform selling it.
Yes, but that misses the point. Mine was a criticism against the illusion of property Steam (and other platforms) create. I know i can pirate stuff, but still Valve has the power to delist or remove stuff from their platform at any time, without need to reimburse.
It ain’t digital property, it’s just long term online renting.
You’re not wrong. But… these tough moments are where I tend to lean on Voltaire’s, “don’t let perfect be the enemy of good” to paraphrase
i wanted a separate message because my other comment was mostly just insulting you and this one isnt.
letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is obviously not good, but doesn’t apply here. Valve won. The good (easy digital distribution) beat the bad. Guess what, goalposts have fucking moved. Valve is now the establishment, providing a restrictive drm-filled customer-harming system. Now they could still be the new good, and perhaps push the video game sweatshops into less restrictive, less drm-filled, less anti-consumer modes of operation. Baby steps without completely upending the system would be, once again, not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. But, like the vast majority of establishment organizations that have ever existed, thats not whats happening. They were the good, and now they are its enemy, but far from perfect.
Didn’t see any insulting part of either of your messages, so… All good I guess?
Anyway, that saying doesn’t mean where things are should remain acceptable. You’re right that corporations (being made up of supposed humans) don’t like to improve or change once they’re making profit, we’ll collectively need to keep pushing for better. But that’s a given, and based on history, has always been the case.
Still, I agree that pushing binary around beats physical media in theory. I don’t like the lack of control once you’ve got it, but as with all things, a company builds a taller wall, someone builds a taller ladder for lulz.
why is it good that valve can take away a video game you paid for?
valve might be better, but are you actually whining about digital distribution? it’s saving gigatons of co2 emissions on physical delivery alone.
PAY ATTENTION: PUTTING 1s AND 0s ON PLASTIC DISKS SO THEY CAN GO TO A STORE AND SIT ON A SHELF FOR MONTHS BEFORE SOMEONE BUYS THEM AND DRIVES THEM HOME IS A MIND NUMBINGLY STUPID WAY TO DISTRIBUTE 1s AND 0s.
You want a physical copy? Kickstart the physical edition. Complaining that valve setup a digital distribution system that actually works is so fucking dumb it makes my brain hurt.
You’re not wrong, but they also don’t make it easy to print those 1’s and 0’s to physical media once you have them.
but are you actually whining about digital distribution?
they are clearly, clearly, clearly, clearly, clearly, not
arguing this is bad faith, ignorance, or naivety
Has a game on steam ever been withdrawn from people who have bought it? I’ve certainly heard of cases where a game gets pulled from the store and people can no longer buy it, but never where already purchased things have been revoked.
In addition there are games on steam that you can just copy to make a backup of it and it will run fine (I know kerbal space program was like this for example). In those cases you have exactly the same amount of control as you would have for owning a disc, but with all the benefits of digital distribution.
In my experience this happened with a game called Rochard. It’s no longer for sale, but I can download it from Steam whenever I want.
Steam games gets pulled all the time which is perfectly fine. They were talking about cases where the people who bought it would lose access to it, which I haven’t heard of either so I don’t really see why some are bashing steam for something they could do but haven’t done yet.
They’ve already stated that if they were to ever go out of business they would remove the DRM from their games so you can just download them and have them.
They stopped carrying a few games to buy but because I own them I can still get them.
Ah yes the games that I have stored on my PC that mostly don’t have DRM and that I can play in offline mode even while running another game on a different PC. Yep those are the ones that I can lose access to?
Do you have any games from Steam which you can play without Steam installed?
Steam has DRM free games
I’m wondering if they, or you, happen to know some examples.
Yup. Plenty. I haven’t proven it for every game I own but I know it works for Titan quest and other random ones I’ve tried.
That’s cool to know, thanks.
I already wanted a Steam Deck, but was saving up for one of the higher tiers. Then I found out how relatively easy it is to buy the cheap one and add an nvme drive. So, now my savings goal is a lot closer.
EDIT: Fixed some typos
Damn right, I haven’t bought a console since the PS1 but I bought a Steam Deck just because of its hackability. I have plans for it beyond just gaming. Robotics control and FPV streaming is one thing I have in mind.
Also Valve: we’ll make some proprietary components that have major failure points, and then not offer replacements for sale (and if we do, at exhorborant prices).
I’m talking about their VR headsets.
Don’t get me wrong, I love them as a company. But while they’re pushing new industries, hardware is an after thought.
proprietary components
ridiculously stupid take. There are no open standards and commodity components for new inventions to adopt because the damned tech is new.
absurd.
Where did I say I was complaining that they use proprietary components? My complaint is about the availability of said components, which is made much worse by how badly they wear.
There are no open standards and commodity components for new inventions to adopt because the damned tech is new.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Virtual_Reality
There’s been open source VR hardware/software since at least 2015. Development is slow, but still active.
Spacebaaaaallllls! 🎶
A canadian startup is already selling canned air.
Folks in places like china are buying it up presumably due to the air pollution they have. This article says they already cleared 300k in sales and are expanding their product lines to offer ‘flavoured air’.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-vitality-air-sales-update-bottled-air-1.5073762
To be fair, there is a use for it. If your at high altitudes, it may be needed. Hopefully no one should need it to deal with pollution though.
In this particular case its intended literally as portrayed in the Spaceballs movie which is what makes this whole thing appalling.
But yeah, theres other use cases for bottled air.
Maybe companies that manufacture and sell oxygen tanks can get in on the game by driving out of town 20 miles and bottling that air out there and marketing it as ‘Great Outdoors’ bottled air
In areas with bad air, 20 miles is not “out of town.” But companies that bottle oxygen already have the equipment to purify the air even in the middle of that smog.
Meant as a tongue in cheek joke, but sure
Wow. Thought The Lorax was supposed to be a warning, not a guideline to go by.
There’s a CEO in The Corporation (2003 documentary) who literally argues that everything should be monetized. Including air…
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Corporations would have us all subscribe to the oxygen supply if they could.
Elon Musk’s X Mars Colony, coming in 2040.
He watched Total Recall and thought “What a great idea!”.
“Dammit Cohagen, give these people air!”
Something on which we can all agree.
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Sounds like a screamy no context statement in vague cannibalistic threat form, fed made.
Remove barriers to the creation of new firms.
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you have to already be rich for that. instead, eat the rich.
Not necessarily. A bunch of us could band together and fund a bunch of folks who are good at building shit and just commission them to design and build new tractors that are easily repairable – preferably electric too – and then sell them. And this effort could be incorporated as a non-profit, which itself legally can own businesses and those businesses could sell them at a profit, and kill off John Deere’s shitty-ass company and any other shitbirds that want to take away consumers’ rights to own their own products.
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Because it’s idiotic and non-actionable. I didn’t down vote him though. I say go ahead and try it, see how far you get. John Deer has lots of money, it’s not like they wouldn’t act to stop you. They’ll sue you into oblivion and they won’t even need a case with merit to drive your little startup into the ground. They’ll just outspend you, not to mention they’ll have consolidated supply lines that you’ll need and that they will not share. The first rule of capitalism is that competition is not to be tolerated.
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If someone challenges you to a fist fight, don’t fist fight them. They want you to fist fight them because it gives them advantage. They’ve trained and prepared for fist fights their entire life. You are doing them a favor by fighting them by their rules. You have to fight them on your terms, playing your own game. Whatever your game is, that’s the way you have to face them. harrass, sabotage and disrupt. Failing that, guillotines are a very fun game indeed.
taking on a business, with business is like wresting a pig. You’ll both get dirty and the pig likes it.
your definition of “something actionable” is:
- organize $0.5-1 bn in funding (<1 % of deere market cap, seemed reasonable given the cost per unit and r&d time to develop a whole new automotive platform)
- spend 5-10 years developing a new platform, and manufacturing to support anything remotely resembling the scope of american agriculture
- ???
- profit
did i get that right?
cause i think your definition of “something actionable” is a bit far-fetched.
now its fair to say “well didn’t john deere do that?” and the answer is…no. not at all.
You’re incorrect with your item number one, as far as being able to take an invention from the drawing board to actual product ready to be sold.
Under the right conditions it can be done for a lot less is what you’ve stated.
I am “incorrect” with an extreme hypothetical estimate?
on the one hand, :o !!!
on the other hand, where is your plan to replace john deere on, say, $150m (you said a lot less than 500m, so im picking 150 as ‘a lot less’)
That tells you all you need to know about how other people really are.
That tells you all you need to know about how other people really are.
whats the last manufacturing company you started?
Why in the world would I doxx myself just to win an argument?
You’re a prat.
Look up Edison Motors. A literal logger in Canada is beating out every truck company with investors. People are excited and lining up to buy them (logging companies anyway).
What he’s doing with logging trucks can be done with tractors.
You should look up all the companies that failed to do that, then look up survivorship bias.
What is it? 90% of companies fail in under 3 years?
I get it. Still cool to see someone try and try well.
Wow, that’s a cool little company. Also, “Stealing Tesla’s Ideas”, ha.
Related to the sibling comment, good ideas are rarely the whole story to a company’s success. Execution (and luck) matter.
I’m going to need to read up more on them. The jump from “regular truck drivers who do repairs” to “so we put a locomotive drivetrain in our truck” is too big and I think it’s really the key to them getting off the ground.
Your have to be rich yourself to get away with reading the rich.
Sounds like another industry in dire need of competition. Makes sense that they’re fighting tooth and nail to keep a deathgrip on what they’ve still got (for now).
There’s plenty of competition; the problem isn’t the proprietary firmware, it’s the expensive parts. You can still fix 99% of a machine yourself, you might have to get a tech out to put a CANbus ID into the computer so a new part that you put on works.
But it still comes down to the fact that the competition don’t make as good/productive of a machine, and parts availability, even if they are expensive, is key. I’ve paid $1000 for a part I could make myself on a mill, but it would take me a day and I’d lose $100,000 of lost production on that machine because rain is coming.
I don’t think anyone’s suggesting that right-to-repair replaces repair options from the OEM, but it’s a critical option to have in a functional product support ecosystem and Deer’s trying to cut it out entirely.
That’s fair, there’s definitely more to it than just having the capability when you’re also dealing with weather and other factors that impact your deadlines. I’m not a fan of equipment manufacturers who exploit their stranglehold on their customers even though I see why it happens.
Very interesting to hear a user’s perspective.
This is probably the first time I’ve made a comment like this on a thread about Deere that hasn’t been downvoted into the basement. People don’t want to hear about what the ground truth of this situation is, they want to hate a company that they haven’t ever actually dealt with.
Don’t get me wrong, I would like to see Deere stop some of their practices, particularly using opensource software like Linux to power their devices and then selling them at steep prices to farmers that sometimes barely have enough money to fix a tire on one of these machines. But the “unrepairability” of Deere equipement is massively misunderstood by most of these armchair warriors, including Rossman.
On the plus side, the uproar has given us the ability to go buy a diagnostic computer from Deere now for the low, low prices of $26,000. It takes a lot of $100 tech visits to make that pay.
There is competition - New Holland, Massey Ferguson, Case IH, etc… The problem is that despite all the anti-consumer nonsense John Deere still tops the lists as the best option.
Deere has the most massive dealer network in the U.S./Canada. So when looking for a part farmers have an easier time finding them. In other places of the world the competition is much more fierce and they don’t compete as well.
As for quality of equipment, Deere makes stuff about average. It’s not terrible but it’s not great.
Other companies have specialized in some things and make vastly better equipment.
New Holland/Massey F has the best swathers and bailers.
Kubota has the best small tractors.
CLAAS has the best choppers and combines.
Deere has the most massive dealer network in the U.S./Canada. So when looking for a part farmers have an easier time finding them.
I have no doubt that this is caused at least partly by the decline of keeping spare parts on the shelf in a warehouse, something most companies did before everyone shifted to ‘just in time’ inventory management because it saved money up front.
But as it turns out ‘just in time’ doesnt work so great when a farmer needs a part right this moment since it relies on ordering then shipping only whats needed.
It probably made Deere’s dealer network look pretty good by comparison since they (presumably) stock parts that another farm store down the road doesnt carry.>
There’s also legislation ( at least in Canada) that requires a manufacturer to have parts for machines less than a decade old to be readily available. A “machine down” order is 3 days or they can explain to the ag minister why they can’t comply.
I wouldn’t trade our 569 for anything else. We’ve had Case and Heston balers, they’re kinda meh and break way more often than if seen on our Deere’s. As for the rest, well parts availability is king.
I’ll move my goalposts a bit then. The industry needs more significant competition for that top spot. It’s not an area I know much about though, just what I’ve picked up from discussions like this about how they respond when people get the crazy idea that they own the equipment they paid for.
query because I am not a farmer: Is Deere tops because they make products that are superior / better bang-for-buck, or is it just hometown advantage of no shipping/delivery overhead, tarrifs/taxes/import fees etc?
Honestly I don’t know. All three I listed are American or have American production facilities (New Holland was founded in PA, and still has a facility there, but is owned by an Italian company).
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TIL Kubota is the Brother Printers option for tractors. Good to know!
Are brother printer still good? I thought they started doing the ink DRM thing and other bullshit too.
I have a brother color laser from 2013 that’s still printing awesome. toner cartridges are $200 for all 4 colors, but I only replaced them in 2015, 2019, and at the beginning of this summer - getting a few thousand pages out of each, conservatively. it’s not a glossy photoprinter, but if you just need high res document prints, I cannot recommend it enough. wifi, cat5, driver is built in to windows 10/11, works fine with android and linux too.
I run a multifunction colour Brother as well. I’ve used it with Brother and various other brands of toner without issues. It will keep printing even if a cartridge is empty. Finding consumables is easy. It runs great from Linux (duplex scans and prints), Windows and mobiles through the LAN. It’s a great machine. You can even override the “low toner” alarm and basically double the life of your cartridges (maybe shake them a bit beforehand). You just swap them out when the quality visibly degrades. I think I bought it for about 400€, it was well worth it.
yup. I never thought I’d feel evangelistic about a brand of printers but holy hell did everyone else race to the bottom of the shit barrel in this entire category. so here we are, praise brother lol, they’re COMPETENT.
Sorta. My old MFP Brother apparently has a firmware update available that makes it aware of the toner brand and I just ignore it. It’s not as bad as HP where a low level of ink turns the machine into a brick.
My 5 year old brother color laser is awesome. Cheap to run and toner doesn’t dry out, and it doesn’t wake up in the middle of the night and clean (i.e. use up) the ink.
However having seem comments like this, I think I will hold off on any firmware updates.
Fuck John Deere and their anti-self repair bs.
The individuals using these machines don’t have time to wait for some tech to find the time to get to BFE, Kansas.
EAT THE RICH CAPTIALISM SUCKS
Louis Rossmann in his natural habitat.
Is he airbrushing his thumbnails? , he’s so shiny
Being able to repair products you own gives you a natural warm glow
I’m sure those competitors will successfully sue them for <1% of their yearly profit in damages, plus they’ll suffer a single employee’s salary amount in fines.
They only seem popular on high subsidy farms.
Yeah I don’t know how anyone could compel themselves to buy one. Do they really have that much of a monopoly on the industry? Is their tech that much further advanced? I genuinely don’t know.
What is the best, more ethical alternative? Growing up my dad had New Holland and we liked them. Eventually I’ll be going more rural and choosing a route to take and it sure as shit won’t be John Deere.
One? Probably not. A fleet of 5-20 to tend a thousand or more acres, I can see that. They’ve basically got the things able to run on autopilot for many processes
I remember my grandpa casually telling a story one time when our family went out for pizza. He talked about how all the farm animals in the village and surrounding villages in Mexico suddenly died, and then John Deere came around selling tractors. This would’ve happened around the late 1950s I think. I have no idea if this is true or not.
Does this dude severely lack sleep or something ? I don’t understand why his eyes are like this.
Lol he actually made a video about it once because people kept asking him. He said that he went to a doctor and they said he was just ugly.
I dont watch this guy’s videos that often, but coincidentally I saw that one.
Thanks.
It’s not easy being the only man in the world fighting for right-to-repair laws. Every company he exposes, more life is drained from behind his eyes.
Soulless company used life steal.
Joke aside , his work is really impressive but his fight is already lost if most people just consume ( unrelated , fuck printer companies ) and accept their fate. We need aware citizens and there’s not many of them. We’re kinda doomed.
People accept DRMs and planned obsolescence as if they can’t fight them. They don’t know their strength and thzt if they decide to boycott these shitty companies they’d die.
More like New York bureaucracy
Erm… That’s a thing, but lay a little more context on us.
Hochul isn’t enough to sink the movement, at all. We’ve conquered a foothold into enemy territory (and I mean those words), it’s been sabotaged to be smaller than expected, but so it goes.
I mean moreso on the life steal;
He’s been dealing with NY screwing him for years after they misfiled his business - they didn’t merge his temp license into his actual license once he received it, so when he filed taxes it only applies to the real business license and not the temp license. Because he had the real business license, he no longer had access on his account to see the temp business license. That temp business license then started missing years of tax filings, and they put a lien on his business. Once again, he never knew because he didn’t have that business license on his account. Also, he did not get any mail because whoever fucked up merging the licenses in a spreadsheet did it to 400+ businesses and also replaced the address for all of them with some random PO box in another state. That meant that for years he’d been getting denied for loans to try and expand his business unlike other businesses in the same field, because of something he could never have known about. The only reason he did find out was when he decided to move his business to Texas for a number of other NY related reasons (e.g. them trying to stop him doing business for selling abandoned laptops because he didn’t register them even though he didn’t need to, not giving or responding to inquiries for permits, etc.) And only then once he sold his business and had 1M sitting in his bank account did the bank act nice and give him am agent who then relayed that there had been a lien for almost a decade
Yeesh. People wonder why us new Yorkers are such hard-asses out of the gate, then you see this kind of fuckery.
Nobody protects us better than ourselves, especially when it comes to the shitbag NYPD.
Thanks for the background on that, his shop wasn’t the only one getting the squeeze that I used to frequent. I mean hell, Chinatown is a shadow of it’s 1999 self.
probably a combination of fatigue, aging and genetics, there’s nothing wrong with it
I said nothing about it being wrong. I genuinely wanted to know because he’s the only person I’ve ever seen with these constant fatigue eyes.
Check out Steve Mould on YouTube, his science explanation videos are actually fantastic, and his eyes look like he’s not slept in a week, permanently. Just how he looks, it’s so strange 😂
He does look like it but our friend above is on a whole another league. Lol
He’s Batman and forgot to wipe off the eyeliner
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Gotta be a raccoon somewhere down the family tree.
The only logical explanation.
he looks normal to me. he looks like he is not wearing makeup while on a camera, but aside from nixon comparisons that isn’t a crime.
Google FourTet he is a DJ/Producer and he is like Louis’ twin.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=uE9X4Vx3xb0
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
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Nice try on inserting political circle jerk comment into a non partisan issue.
“Way to politicise this political issue!” - Morons everywhere
This is inherently a political issue, because partisan policies enable this sort of abusive behavior from John Deere in the first place.
If you can’t see that, then you don’t understand the full breadth of the situation being discussed, and probably should avoid commenting on it. There’s no point in popping into a conversation to say “I don’t understand anything that’s going on, but here’s what I think about it anyway”, because nobody cares for uneducated opinions. Unless you’re just fishing for an internet argument, in which case I recommend maybe just sticking to a Roblox forum or something else that’s more to your speed.
Which side is fixing it for you?
what do you fail to understand about what i said… or is that ass just too cozy inside…
Governor Hochul sabotages NY right to repair bill, right on schedule
Thats Another video from Louis
Get educated instead of shilling your brain dead politics, boy
so you don’t understand the direct causal relationship between Republican politics, and deregulation… that’s what you’re telling everyone here… that your head is too buried to see that…
you need to understand that when you speak, it mostly just sounds like farts, son… you need to try to speak more clearly…
this is why no one needs to take your concerns seriously…
Keep on doing the circle jerk clown
maybe reality is sad because when you open your eyes, all you see is the inside of your own colon
Why is u this hurt?
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I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
This is the natural result of what we vote for every two years.
Is it? I don’t remember seeing a guy running for Congress that promised he’d prevent huge corporations from running rough shod over everything.
People like saying stuff like “just vote better”, but the fact is the vast majority of people that run for any office are pro-big business because that’s their background and the lobbyists give them lots of money to get elected. Where’s the anti-big business guy going to get his money to run? And without money, you sure aren’t winning.
Through lobbying, corporations have us all by the balls. It doesn’t matter what side of the isle you’re on; both sides have basically been endorsed by big money.
I don’t remember seeing a guy running for Congress that promised he’d prevent huge corporations from running rough shod over everything.
What we need is ranked voting so someone like that might have a chance on the ballot.
We need to vote on bills directly, having representatives is stupid.
Campaign finance reform is necessary to tackle big business interests out for regulatory capture. Shift some of that subsidy into funding campaigns so the little guy stands a chance against them and their billionaire club.
The result of vote is only as good at the voting system used and the people voting. A more representative voting system leads to more public representation in government, which would likely improve the lives of the voters who will vote next time.
You’re much more optimistic than I am.
I’m not sure about that. A party that ‘wins’ under first-past-the-post/winner-take-all is unlikly to change the voting system such that they would be less likely to get into power next time. I have no idea of the path to changing the voting system. I hope intoducing people to other voting systems helps.
