A fallible state institution that has made many documented mistakes in the past is still given the power to murder prisoners who are in its custody and under its protection. It’s barbarous.
America is hellbent on the concept of punishing criminals over rehabilitation while also having an objectively unfair justice system. The cruelty is the point sometimes, and it’s very unfortunate that people still think this way.
The Lethal Injection idea was from interviewing a veterinarian who of course refused to implement it, as did every Medical Doctor in the USA because of fucking course nobody would touch breaking the oath in such a way with a ten foot pole. The result is a bunch of untrained amateurs carrying out the procedures and an extremely low success rate leading to unjust and unnecessary pain and trauma.
I imagine all the other methods they come up with to follow a similar series of events.
Thank you for stating the truth. I live in USA, and it hurts.
Weird stuff, Americans
I dont support the death penalty in any way (well, maybe guillotine)
Its the vengeful right wing christofascists that love it. Unfortunately, they are overrepresented in our governments.
Front accounts of when the guillotine was used often and publicly, there was seemingly voluntary movement for up to two minutes. Imagine the hell that is searing pain from nerves cut and exposed to air while you black out screaming silent and breathless.
Dropping a 2 ton weight made of tungsten onto someone’s head is about as instant and painless as possible. We can kill better, we have had the technology.
Dropping a 2 ton weight made of tungsten onto someone’s head is about as instant and painless as possible. We can kill better, we have had the technology.
Are we talking about the mashinator?
Just the pro life crowd being inhumane. Nothing to see here.
To be fair, insofar as execution methods go, nitrogen asphyxiation is far far far and away the most humane.
So, like, it is an improvement? It’s less inhumane than they were being at any rate?
I don’t know if you can call any execution method even remotely humane.
Even if you know it isn’t going to hurt, you still know you’re going to die. There’s no escaping that part.
I didn’t say it was. I said it was more humane.
If an execution is going to happen, I think doing it in the most humane way possible is better than torturing them to death. That’s a positive switch, even if it’s still bad.
People keep saying this, but it seems like this execution proved that it’s not true.
How so? Cause the dude was vigorously fighting the guys holding a mask to his face to try and stop them from killing him? I don’t think that’s evidence that nitrogen asphyxiation is painful. Dude did the same thing with the lethal injection, and they never even managed to get the needle in.
the humane part, to me, is the struggle.
The inhumane part is putting someone through that and saying, “Good job.”
Oh, for sure. And I agree that the death penalty is fundamentally inhumane. I also understand that justice is hard to manage and measure. Idk, I’m drunk and not paid enough to have to make hard decisions like that, and for that I’m very much appreciative. :)
To be fair, killing a blank slate is different than killing a guy everybody wants dead
2 problems here. Firstly a fetus is not alive so can’t be killed. Secondly I didn’t want that guy dead.
Hi, pro-choice mathematician who’s done biology work here. Fetuses are alive. Fetuses are composed of living tissues. If a fetus was not alive, it wouldn’t grow. If a fetus doesn’t grow it can’t be born. You will never win an argument with an anti-abortion nutjob if you get basic facts wrong. The reason a fetus doesn’t have the same moral weight as the human it needs to live off of is because fetuses aren’t sapient.
1 - it’s still stopping the existence of an organism and preventing a human life from happening after it already started to happen. Call it not killing something, but we’re basically arguing semantics. I’m pro choice, but I mean, own what you are doing. It’s not exactly preventative it’s reactive.
2 - idk and idc who this hitman guy is, I meant your usual death row guy who viscously killed/etc multiple people in a horrifying way. Someone an overwhelming majority of people would have no problem with being killed. Someone who has demonstrated we permanently need out of society and has spread suffering. I’m anti death penalty, but not because there’s any love lost with those people - only because we convict and kill the wrong people sometimes.
we’re basically arguing semantics
Well yes, but you referred to terminating a pregnancy as “killing a blank slate”. The use of the term “killing” has obvious emotional connotations which you were co-opting to support your position. If you’re going to do that then you need to be prepared to defend the appropriateness of that particular verb.
I meant your usual death row guy who viscously killed/etc multiple people in a horrifying way. Someone an overwhelming majority of people would have no problem with being killed.
You’re assuming that people generally support killing repugnant criminals, which is not the case. There are some truly awful people in the world, and they may well “deserve” to die, but I do not wish them dead. I think you may find that this is a fairly commonly held position in contemporary society.
Yea, once someone rapes a child and tortures 3 people for hours before burning down a house, I’m philosophically fine with killing them. I didn’t think that part was too much of a hot take.
Fair enough about you perceiving a connotation about the verbage, but also, it’s killing something lol. If what I just did to this ant in my kitchen was killing it, then it’s what’s happening to that fetus.
You said “a guy everyone wants dead” which is obviously never going to be true.
I’m sure this sounds odd to you, but in contemporary society it kind of is a hot take to want someone dead.
Any rights a fetus has are outweighed by the mother’s right to bodily autonomy.
When it comes to mixed bag news this is as mixed as it gets. If we’re gonna execute people, we can at least do it as humanely as possible.
Yup. Morality and efficacy of the death penalty left totally aside for the moment, I’m shocked it took this long to use nitrogen instead of the clusterfuck cocktail that’s tortured so many people to death.
One of my state senators introduced a bill that’d let inmates choose execution by a firing squad made up of members of the legislature. Like ‘If you want to kill them so bad, you pull the damn trigger.’
Isn’t going anywhere but I like the sentiment. Real Ned Stark energy.
While that “sounds” good in theory. Many gun nut conservatives (of which many of the legislators come from) would actually welcome the chance to kill another human without representations…
There’s an argument that if you make it less violent, then people will be more willing to accept execution as a valid punishment.
That ignores, of course, that execution favorability has been dropping for 100+ years despite the methods becoming (or at least attempting to become) more humane.
Why? If we’re killing people, then who cares how they go? They won’t remember. Only we will remember.
Is this better because we feel less guilt when they don’t scream?
What matters in anyone’s life? Why do you care if I tie your hands together, hang you by a hook in my basement, and punch you in the dick repeatedly every day for 20 years? One day you will die and won’t remember so why does it matter?
But until I die, it matters. Because that is all any of us have, the time until death.
But if death is imminent, and you stick a finger in my butt, who will know or care but you?
Just because someone’s death is imminent doesn’t mean we should torture them, or else why bother keeping this society going? Any society that treats its terminal members that way is certainly not a society worth keeping around.
If you care that much, maybe we should just not kill them. Seems weird to care how they die, but not that they die.
Correct, we should not kill them.
Which this isn’t, in my opinion. It’s just nicer for the killer and the onlookers. But it’s not a dignified death. If you’re gonna kill people in the name of justice, let them stand up and shoot them.
If you can’t stomach seeing or doing that, then maybe that should tell you something about the death penalty in general.I would WAY rather drift off to sleep forever than be shot to death.
Did you read the article?
By all reports death by nitrogen is death by induced seizure, which sounds like what happened.
I did read the article. He was holding his breath and shaking around.
Death by nitrogen hypoxia isn’t something we invented for executions. I don’t know why news articles are pretending that it’s this brand new untested method of killing people.
I wonder if the shaking around was an attempt to break the mask’s seal. Maybe this method could be improved by using one of those assisted suicide nitrogen pods.
He was holding his breath and shaking around.
Which kind of shows it isn’t all that humane, doesn’t it? He was desperately trying to cling to life.
I mean, there’s nothing humane about killing someone who knows what’s happening and doesn’t want to die.
If my life were ever going to be ended in an intentional manner, this is the method I would choose.
Yea but it’s still better than the ‘lets paralyze you so we feel humane and have your veins be lava for 12 hours as you disintegrate’ evolved option we use.
I’m right there with you though, how the fuck is it that we don’t just put people under like before surgery, and then cut off their access to oxygen? Or a quick gunshot, or a shot with that cattle killing gun? The whole thing is so fucking stupid to me
I’m against the death penalty personally, but the whole thing is so unbelievably absurd to me.
Also, obligatory ayyyy Alabama represent, we made BBC News again
how the fuck is it that we don’t just put people under like before surgery
You need meds for that, and a qualified anesthesiologist.
I think the best way to go, besides snu-snu (nothing will top that method), is to IV enough carfentanil to kill an entire city into the person. Even those with massive opioid tolerances can’t withstand a dose like that. It’s why the fentanyl epidemic was so deadly here.
Makes sense to me (in a world where we’re doing the death penalty. I’m against it, it’s just a ‘if you’re gonna do it, what the hell are y’all doing it that way for’).
Someone rocked my world by pointing out they can’t get doctors involved because of their oaths, which I guess makes sense. But its also still another unbelievably absurd element of this
I’d go for the nitrogen thing, plus a massive dose of mushrooms just to set the mood.
Rev. Jeff Hood, Smith’s spiritual adviser, was at Smith’s side for the execution, and said prison officials in the room “were visibly surprised at how bad this thing went.” “What we saw was minutes of someone struggling for their life,” Hood, attending his fifth execution in the last 15 months, told reporters. “We saw minutes of someone heaving back and forth. We saw spit. We saw all sorts of stuff from his mouth develop on the mask. We saw this mask tied to the gurney, and him ripping his head forward over and over and over again.”
All our technological advances as a society and this is the best we can do?
Everyone who would actually know what they are doing in executions (doctors, pharmaceutical companies, veteranarians) have looked at it and said “this is barbaric in concept, no matter how humanely you do it, we will have no part in it”. What you are left with is people without the relevent expertise, who do not have a problem with the barbarism, figuring out how to do it.
State sanctioned murder with torture included for free. They did it the conservative Christian way…
I also read that they starved him first so he won’t choke on the food if he vomits it out.
It’s not the best we can do. It’s what sadistic people choose to do.
No, the best we can do is the guillotine, but people don’t like severed heads.
Or just shooting someone in the head with a high caliber rifle is probably better. Maybe it’s an urban legend, but I’ve heard the brain can survive for a few seconds after being beheaded. Best to just destroy the brain as instantly as possible.
.
so cheap
“We’re giving out longer prison sentences and cutting taxes and budgets, make it work.” - Red state legislatures every two years
In November 2022, Alabama officials aborted his execution by lethal injection after struggling for hours to insert an intravenous line’s needle in his body.
In Smith’s second and final trip to the execution chamber on Thursday, executioners restrained him in a gurney and strapped a commercial industrial-safety respirator mask to his face. A canister of pure nitrogen was attached to the mask
This doesn’t sound very professional!?
Someone else mentioned in another comment here that medical professionals can’t purposely kill someone because of their oath, so I’m guessing the people administering these execution methods are literally unqualified to do them.
I’d argue that a doctor would also be unqualified, since their entire qualification revolves around not killing people.
But yeah, one major problem with the death penalty is that it is carried out by people who have no education or training in that matter.
No one goes to school to learn the trade of an executioner.
Professionals won’t participate because that’d break their hippocratic oath. That just leaves schmucks like me and you to try to figure it out.
I don’t see what’s wrong.
I used to draw blood and was pretty competent when conditions were right but I was sometimes surprised by how hard was to find someone’s veins. It wasn’t uncommon to try several times and have the person complain that both their arms hurt from all the needling. lol
And as far as the method of execution goes with the respirator mask, it sounds very standard as far as the “exit bag” method goes. I’d even say that it’s a step up from a plastic bag over one’s head.
I’m just wondering why not use one of the assisted suicide nitrogen pods.
Who knows, honestly, but my guess is that besides costs and practical reasons, they didn’t want to make a bigger scandal. I think their main concern is that these people are very pro-death so long as it’s not under people’s own terms and the pods seem like a symbol of that. How neat it would’ve been if they had used the pod, though!
Came here to ask the same question. Are the pods more effective (aka quicker/less traumatic) or do they have the same results?
why can’t they just give them an insane amount of opiates rather than all this odd shit
(if we have to kill people, which we shouldn’t)
I know a lot of people die accidentally this way, but I wonder if it’s always peaceful. I had to take oxys once and - granted, the dose was minuscule - I experienced some pretty intense paradoxical effects for a while before I noticed any degree of sedation. Would giving 100x guarantee immediate sedation and respiratory shutdown, or would they be convulsing and puking everywhere on their way out?
You know that sleepyness where you literally cannot keep your eyes open and keep dozing off? That’s what an opioid overdose is like. If you gave someone a bunch of morphine, they’d fall asleep and soon after stop breathing.
Some people experience different levels of nausea from different kinds of opioids, so some level of discomfort will exist in some percent of the population without either testing out the different opioids on the prisoner or giving them an anti-nausea drug.
32 minutes. Huh.
Richest 3rd world country
deleted by creator
I think the Christian way involves lions. Or inadequate healthcare.
Lions were how Christian’s were killed in the Roman games before whatshisass converted
Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it’s Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it’s Turkish delight on a moonlit night
Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you’ve a date in Constantinople
She’ll be waiting in Istanbul
I thought that’s stoning to death. The brutality is key.
You have to be sinless to chuck the first stone, so the early church would drag people off and stab them in the alley. (Incidentally, this was how Jews took care of it at the time because Roman’s kind of frowned on other people getting in on it,)
When the church became a power… they switched to burnings, hangings and other “creative” ways to torture people to death.
Civilized countries don’t execute criminals and somehow don’t experience more criminality or unacceptably high incarceration costs as a result. Capital punishment is an outdated cultural practice like slavery, genital mutilation or child brides and has nothing to do with the administration of justice. It is cultural and nothing else. They like the killing. They believe in the killing. It has no other purpose.
I don’t know why much of the discussion is about the method of execution. Would it matter how they were fucking kids or beating slaves in Alabama or that they were doing those things at all? State executions are barbaric and indefensible in any form.
I don’t see why they do any method other than a bullet or the lance gun thing they use to kill cows/sheep/etc by launching a spike into the brain. Surely that’s the quickest and painless method right?
People have been known to survive bullets to the brain. I’m unsure of how big the lance is, but it may be survivable as well. There’s the famous story of Phineas Gage surviving having a large iron rod accidentally driven through his skull, for example.
Sure, if you shoot someone in the head from 20ft or accidentally drive a rod in someone’s brain that might occasionally be a survivable event. But if you aim from closeby, with the intent of ending someones life? Chances of survival are slim to none. (With a mercy shot being an option if that’s the case)
I’m vehemently against the death penalty, but there are about a thousand ways to do it ‘better’ than the US is doing right now (it just wouldn’t be as neat/clean, which apparently is more important to the people in charge)
Have you seen the way animals are slaughtered?
I’m going to follow this advice
Quickest route to becoming vegan is discovering the cruelty done in your name.
yea I’ve done this before but couldn’t handle it, too intense for me
Quickest and least painful is probably the guillotine. Immediate drop in blood pressure to the brain might give you a few seconds of consciousness after it happens, but you’d be in too much shock to feel any pain. You wouldn’t be slowly choking to death like this fellow.
So, a gas chamber? Back to 1938, are we?
The method itself is not problematic.
I’d argue any method of killing a living being against their will is problematic…
Sure, but that’s not what we are talking about.
No, you’re arguing the decision to kill a living being against their will is problematic, in which I wholeheartedly agree.
To be able to call the method problematic implies you find killing against will acceptable.
This particular method (inert gas asphyxiation) is absolutely not problematic when killing people that choose to do so: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarco_pod
The method
What about imprisoning them against their will?
If they are danger to others, sure.
So it’s okay to torture people if they’re a danger to others, but not kill them?
If someone is eminent danger to others and there is no other option, it’s ok to kill them to in my book. But no it’s not ok to torture people at al. But I make a difference between torture and imprisonment: since I think prisoners deserve humane conditions and rehabilitation should be the goal, prison should not be like torture. If your prison is torture you doing it wrong.
What happens when people commit more crimes because the consequence of imprisonment is not enough of a deterrent?
Murder is still murder, no matter if it’s legalized.
And an execution is a premeditated murder in cold blood, even a systemic one. It’s pretty much the worst kind of murder.
And yes, every kind of murder is problematic. Using gas chambers just gives it the correct appearance: state sponsored serial murder.
Do you struggle with context, hypotheticals, or both?
You seem to have no arguments for your opinion, otherwise why would you have to resort to personal attacks?
These kinds of comments are usually the internet equivalent of a white flag.
It isn’t an opinion, though, you are simply failing to follow the conversation. I said “the method itself”, which implies that I am comparing this method to other methods and NOT discussing whether or not capital punishment is ok.
And you are not getting the point. Every method of killing people is terrible and inhumane. There is no humane way of killing people, because the very act of killing people is inhumane.
The only humane method is one that doesn’t kill or harm people.
What if they want to be killed?
Jesus fucking Christ
Strong comment, thanks.
Archive link because there is a non skippable ad block blocker.
I didn’t get any of this using uBo…
I’m on an Android phone.
Android Firefox supports uBo and many other extensions. It’s the only way I browse YouTube on my phone nowadays.
Me too, with uBo installed on Firefox.
Brave browser works well on an android phone and blocks ads without any issues (including YouTube).
The only extra steps you’ll need: Toggle off “sponsored images” on the New Tab settings. Toggle off the “Brave rewards icon” under “Appearance” settings.
