Wait he was handed live gun, which was supposed to fire blanks and yet it’s him getting charged and not the propmaster. what the fuck? what am I missing?
He says that Baldwin is unlikely charged for firing the gun but more likely for being a producer who failed to ensure that the set is safe.
The thing is that he right now is being charged for firing the gun not for falling as a producer, that’s why it seems pretty weird like they are really trying to sack him for some reason.
You absolutely can if you have every reason to believe it’s not firing a live round, like say, on a film set, where all weapons are supposed to be cleared with armorers/prop masters.
I love me some Legal Eagle, but this video is 2 years old and at the beginning he says they don’t have the full facts yet and everything is speculative since they don’t know what happened. I’m wondering if there’s anything more recent with more info about what actually happened.
According to a Wikipedia article on the incident it was the armorer that had previous experience with accidental discharges of firearms and I guess it’s the mere point of their presence during filming to make sure all guns are handled safely. Their job was to hand a safe gun to the actor, they didn’t do it and a person died. I don’t fucking see one reason to charge the actor, regardless of whether they happen to be a producer or not, and not charge the person actually responsible for the accident.
I think it would be fair to charge him with reckless endangerment if he was involved with her hiring and there were clear red flags, but producers have extremely varied roles and I don’t know what his personal involvement was.
I agree the set was a mess and whoever was in charge of that side should definitely be charged for endangerment. I don’t know if the most responsible person was Baldwin though, because there were a lot of producers involved and being labeled a producer doesn’t mean you actually do anything. It’s possible that he had more involvement, but I don’t want to make that assumption based on the title of producer alone.
I do think he should have used his influence to do more to make the set safe, no matter what his responsibilities were, and that he was irresponsible in that regard no matter what, but not doing enough isn’t necessarily criminal if he wasn’t the directly responsible individual.
I meant red flags before she was hired, but she should have been fired immediately after these things happened, I agree.
From my own standpoint I can understand how a certain amount of responsibility lies on him too. If I were handed something that looks like a gun or a knife, I would probably check to make sure it isn’t a real gun myself.
Especially in the US, where tragic accidental gun-related deaths and injuries happen every day.
If you hired a professional armorer to handle guns safely and then have had assistant producer check it and confirm the gun is safe then I imagine you would have assumed it actually is.
The scene involved Baldwin’s character removing a gun from its holster and pointing it toward the camera. The trio behind the monitor were two feet (0.6 m) from the muzzle of the firearm and none of them were wearing protective gear such as noise-canceling headphones or safety goggles.
The trio behind the monitor began repositioning the camera to remove a shadow, and Baldwin began explaining to the crew how he planned to draw the firearm. He said, “So, I guess I’m gonna take this out, pull it, and go, ‘Bang!’” When he removed it from the holster, the revolver discharged a single time.
Halls was quoted by his attorney Lisa Torraco as saying that Baldwin did not pull the trigger, and that Baldwin’s finger was never within the trigger guard during the incident.
This would be David Halls, the assistant director.
Then they aren’t headphones, they are earmuffs with noise cancellation.
The insulation in the earmuffs is doing the real work. Noise cancellation by itself isn’t going to protect your ears much at all, if anything.
On a film set I would expect anyone in ear protection like that to use the kind with either external sound amplification (mic on the outside, speaker on the inside, so they are headphones) and/or with wireless audio transmission (bluetooth/etc, speaker on the inside, so still headphones)
Yeah I don’t think anyone reasonable thinks Baldwin purposefully shot that person, it was a tragic accident that was preventable at a lot of levels and while I don’t think he would be culpable were he not producing the film and merely acting in it, the fact is he is because he was
Ok but you have an expert saying “this gun will fire blanks when you pull the trigger, I loaded them, nobody else can touch the gun except me and you under my supervision. When the camera starts rolling in a bit you’re going to point it at that person and fire the blanks in accordance with the script. After the scene ends you hand the gun back to me because nobody else is allowed to touch it”
That’s how movies involving firearms work. If he was following industry and legal standards then he shouldn’t be held responsible as the actor. Maybe the standards need to be changed. Maybe he needs to be held accountable as the producer who hired the armorer. But there needs to be a mens rea for it to be a crime and it needs to be a criminal negligence that we would hold others accountable for if they engage in it without tragedy.
Ok but you have an expert saying “this gun will fire blanks when you pull the trigger, I loaded them, nobody else can touch the gun except me and you under my supervision. When the camera starts rolling in a bit you’re going to point it at that person and fire the blanks in accordance with the script. After the scene ends you hand the gun back to me because nobody else is allowed to touch it”
And not only that, but also producer (David Halls), whose job was to double check the armorer’s preparation of the gun, confirms it is safe. I think people claiming this was in any way Baldwin’s fault are taking a piss
I think they’re people who understand basic firearm safety but don’t understand extenuating circumstances or the fact that movies tend to use real firearms shooting specialized ammunition.
And the fact is that if you hang out in weird places you’ll meet people who think they know what they’re doing with a gun and really need to be following the first rule of firearm safety (don’t point it at shit you don’t want to destroy). People like the sort who bring unloaded guns into the bedroom or who point them at friends as a joke. You know, morons (and I say this as someone who does do dangerous shit for fun). But there’s a difference between touching an electric wire because you shut off the circuit yourself and touching one because a master electrician assured you it’s safe.
George Clooney has said that on the sets he’s been on, both the prop master and the actor check the gun. If a scene requires someone to shoot towards the camera, a transparent barrier is placed in front of the camera, even when it’s blanks being used. You don’t rehearse a scene with a gun that’s capable of firing, you use a dummy gun for that. A real firearm isn’t handed to an actor until just before the camera starts rolling, not while they’re just setting things up.
These are sensible precautions to take, they just weren’t happening on Alec Baldwin’s set. The reasons for these precautions is that the “master armorer” can screw up. People complained about lax gun safety before the incident, the complaints were ignored.
Exactly. Safety comes in layers and therefore assistant producer David Halls was supposed to double check the gun after the armorer prepared it. He failed at it, the armorer failed at their job and it’s theirs and only theirs fault.
Wait he was handed live gun, which was supposed to fire blanks and yet it’s him getting charged and not the propmaster. what the fuck? what am I missing?
It’s never as simple as you think.
Analysis of the events and circumstances, and commentary by a lawyer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXmAeMQCvZQ
He says that Baldwin is unlikely charged for firing the gun but more likely for being a producer who failed to ensure that the set is safe.
The thing is that he right now is being charged for firing the gun not for falling as a producer, that’s why it seems pretty weird like they are really trying to sack him for some reason.
deleted by creator
When you fire a gun, and it hits someone, you can’t be that surprised when you are charged with that.
You absolutely can if you have every reason to believe it’s not firing a live round, like say, on a film set, where all weapons are supposed to be cleared with armorers/prop masters.
… and the actors. At least, that has been reported as the usual way.
I love me some Legal Eagle, but this video is 2 years old and at the beginning he says they don’t have the full facts yet and everything is speculative since they don’t know what happened. I’m wondering if there’s anything more recent with more info about what actually happened.
Legal Eagle? Let’s french this up a bit and call him L’Eagle.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=wXmAeMQCvZQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
So, there is a part where he’s an executive producer and may have ignored warnings regarding safety.
According to a Wikipedia article on the incident it was the armorer that had previous experience with accidental discharges of firearms and I guess it’s the mere point of their presence during filming to make sure all guns are handled safely. Their job was to hand a safe gun to the actor, they didn’t do it and a person died. I don’t fucking see one reason to charge the actor, regardless of whether they happen to be a producer or not, and not charge the person actually responsible for the accident.
I think it would be fair to charge him with reckless endangerment if he was involved with her hiring and there were clear red flags, but producers have extremely varied roles and I don’t know what his personal involvement was.
Clear red flags, you say? https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
I agree the set was a mess and whoever was in charge of that side should definitely be charged for endangerment. I don’t know if the most responsible person was Baldwin though, because there were a lot of producers involved and being labeled a producer doesn’t mean you actually do anything. It’s possible that he had more involvement, but I don’t want to make that assumption based on the title of producer alone.
I do think he should have used his influence to do more to make the set safe, no matter what his responsibilities were, and that he was irresponsible in that regard no matter what, but not doing enough isn’t necessarily criminal if he wasn’t the directly responsible individual.
I meant red flags before she was hired, but she should have been fired immediately after these things happened, I agree.
Let the legal system do its thing. The prosecutor will still have to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt of the crime they allege he committed.
From my own standpoint I can understand how a certain amount of responsibility lies on him too. If I were handed something that looks like a gun or a knife, I would probably check to make sure it isn’t a real gun myself.
Especially in the US, where tragic accidental gun-related deaths and injuries happen every day.
Your argument stops being valid the moment you said probably
If you hired a professional armorer to handle guns safely and then have had assistant producer check it and confirm the gun is safe then I imagine you would have assumed it actually is.
You’re hopefully missing someone on set, unlike Baldwin
The armorer trial was pushed back to Feb 21st of this year.
And even though it’s a prop, it should still be handled as if it was loaded at all time, not point it at anyone unless necessary, etc.
It may not entirely be his fault, but he was still careless.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_shooting_incident
This would be David Halls, the assistant director.
Since when is noise-canceling headphones protective gear, lol?!
Since… about a decade ago? Noise cancellation/reduction has been an available feature in earmuffs marketed to firearms users for a while now.
Then they aren’t headphones, they are earmuffs with noise cancellation. The insulation in the earmuffs is doing the real work. Noise cancellation by itself isn’t going to protect your ears much at all, if anything.
On a film set I would expect anyone in ear protection like that to use the kind with either external sound amplification (mic on the outside, speaker on the inside, so they are headphones) and/or with wireless audio transmission (bluetooth/etc, speaker on the inside, so still headphones)
e.g. https://www.amazon.com/PROHEAR-Electronic-Protection-Bluetooth-Amplification/dp/B07YSM7N97
Should still not be called headphones when their primary function is hearing protection.
Yeah I don’t think anyone reasonable thinks Baldwin purposefully shot that person, it was a tragic accident that was preventable at a lot of levels and while I don’t think he would be culpable were he not producing the film and merely acting in it, the fact is he is because he was
It has to be someone’s job to make sure guns on set are safe
Of course the armorer’s job, but safety comes in layers. It’s in a way everyone’s job to apply basic precautions, especially when you’re handling one.
Treat all guns as loaded to minimize the potential for harm.
Ok but you have an expert saying “this gun will fire blanks when you pull the trigger, I loaded them, nobody else can touch the gun except me and you under my supervision. When the camera starts rolling in a bit you’re going to point it at that person and fire the blanks in accordance with the script. After the scene ends you hand the gun back to me because nobody else is allowed to touch it”
That’s how movies involving firearms work. If he was following industry and legal standards then he shouldn’t be held responsible as the actor. Maybe the standards need to be changed. Maybe he needs to be held accountable as the producer who hired the armorer. But there needs to be a mens rea for it to be a crime and it needs to be a criminal negligence that we would hold others accountable for if they engage in it without tragedy.
And not only that, but also producer (David Halls), whose job was to double check the armorer’s preparation of the gun, confirms it is safe. I think people claiming this was in any way Baldwin’s fault are taking a piss
I think they’re people who understand basic firearm safety but don’t understand extenuating circumstances or the fact that movies tend to use real firearms shooting specialized ammunition.
And the fact is that if you hang out in weird places you’ll meet people who think they know what they’re doing with a gun and really need to be following the first rule of firearm safety (don’t point it at shit you don’t want to destroy). People like the sort who bring unloaded guns into the bedroom or who point them at friends as a joke. You know, morons (and I say this as someone who does do dangerous shit for fun). But there’s a difference between touching an electric wire because you shut off the circuit yourself and touching one because a master electrician assured you it’s safe.
George Clooney has said that on the sets he’s been on, both the prop master and the actor check the gun. If a scene requires someone to shoot towards the camera, a transparent barrier is placed in front of the camera, even when it’s blanks being used. You don’t rehearse a scene with a gun that’s capable of firing, you use a dummy gun for that. A real firearm isn’t handed to an actor until just before the camera starts rolling, not while they’re just setting things up.
These are sensible precautions to take, they just weren’t happening on Alec Baldwin’s set. The reasons for these precautions is that the “master armorer” can screw up. People complained about lax gun safety before the incident, the complaints were ignored.
The scene they were filming involved him pointing the gun at the camera. The person who got shot was standing behind the camera.
Alec Baldwin claims he did not pull the trigger, and this was corroborated by the assistant director on set.
Exactly. Safety comes in layers and therefore assistant producer David Halls was supposed to double check the gun after the armorer prepared it. He failed at it, the armorer failed at their job and it’s theirs and only theirs fault.
And someone’s job is to control that this person does their job properly. Which is the someone’s boss who delegated the task.
In other words, an executive who assigns a task to someone is responsible to ensure it is done properly.
Yep, AD David Halls’.
Public scapegoat.
Edit: Alec Baldwin is a known Democrat and caricatured Donald Trump famously on SNL. This is clearly a hit job on him because of his stance.