• masquenox@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    45
    ·
    1 year ago

    while fascists gleefully vote republican.

    If I was a fascist, I’d vote Dem - fascism just gets more traction with liberals in the Waffle House, and Dems are utterly ineffective at actually doing anything to stop fascism anyway. It was Trump whipping the fascists into a froth while a lib was in the Waffle House that brought antifa into the streets - not Trump actually humiliating himself on a daily basis in the Offal Office.

    Fascists just gets more from a Dem regime - the Dems are doing a fine job strengthening fascist institutions. If Pig City was being constructed under Trump, the resistance to it would be ten times stronger.

    None of this means you are wrong, of course (you’re not) - but if voting can stop fascists it simply means the political institutions aren’t ready to hand power over to them just yet. They are working on it, though.

    • Cowbee@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      34
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Accelerationism works both ways, I suppose, but there legitimately are fascists in the republican party.

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        27
        ·
        1 year ago

        but there legitimately are fascists in the republican party.

        Doesn’t matter. The actual fascists doesn’t matter. The thing to be concerned about isn’t the fascists themselves - what matters is the liberals that will hand power to the fascists if their precious status quo is threatened enough.

        The thing about fascists that nobody except leftists seem to understand is that fascists serve a very distinct purpose in the classical liberal nation-state - they don’t exist in a vacuum as some kind of “aberration”. Fascism cannot exist without threatened capitalists funding them. Fascism cannot exist without liberals handing power to them to maintain their precious “Law & Order.”

        There is no such thing as “grass-roots fascism” - it’s all coming from above.

        • Asafum@feddit.nl
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          It makes sense, but I think the downvotes are from people feeling like this is victim blaming as opposed to recognizing what you’re actually saying.

          It’s not Johnny Democrat going to the polls that’s allowing fascists to take power, it’s Joe Manchin protecting his own wealth by “allowing” a “friendly fascist” to take power, or pass a bill, if it means stopping a Bernie Sanders from taking office or stopping a popular bill that would cost him potential profit. Unless I’m the one who’s misunderstanding lol

          • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            13
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            1 year ago

            The downvotes are from reasonable people who understand that this kind of cynicism is privileged teenager nonsense.

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            13
            ·
            1 year ago

            Unless I’m the one who’s misunderstanding lol

            No, you’re not. If voting could undo fascism it wouldn’t exist. If the wants of the majority of people in the US actually counted the US would be a place we couldn’t even imagine in this reality - and so would the rest of the world.

            downvotes are from people

            I got the exact same response in 2016 as well… even leftists who should have known better hysterically accused me of “accelerationsim” for stating that a Trump presidency would energize the left - which it did (mysteriously, without any “accelerationism” on my part at all).

            I don’t blame them… people are grasping at straws. It was the same in 2016.

            • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              11
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              yes, we could have preserved basic human rights for women by just voting for them directly when we had the chance, but it’s much more entertaining for me if a bunch of people suffer needlessly to achieve the same goal

              How fucking privileged can you be? This isn’t a fucking game. Grow the fuck up.

              • masquenox@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                8
                ·
                1 year ago

                for women by just voting for them directly

                Are you talking about a certain neocolonialist prodigy of notorious mass-murderer Henry Kissinger, perhaps?

                Do tell, liberal - how many lives in the 3rd world would you sacrifice for your venal and hollow “girlboss” fake-feminism?

                • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  9
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  My farts smell better when they are uncorrupted by any semblance of nuance or pragmatism.

                  Yes, we all understand that you’ve smugly absolved yourself from the burden of real statecraft by being smarter than everyone, but I assure you that plenty of vulnerable people still think your privileged shit stinks like hell.

                  • masquenox@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    8
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Again, liberal - how many lives in the 3rd world would you sacrifice for your venal and hollow “girlboss” fake-feminism?

        • pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          Yes it does matter; millions of people will die if Trump wins a second term. Don’t lie to our face by claiming it doesn’t matter.

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            1 year ago

            millions of people will die if Trump wins a second term.

            Probably. And if the US political establishment actually manages to dig out a competent fascist, many, many more than that will die or have their lives destroyed (which has never been an unusual thing in the US at all - or anywhere the US does “foreign policy”).

            Your problem isn’t Trump. There’s a lot more (and much viler) where he came from. Your problem is the political establishment that allows his existence - will they be allowing you to vote on that any time soon?

        • SomeSphinx@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          “the actual fascists don’t matter” …There’s no way you just typed that in good faith.

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            1 year ago

            Lol! It’s quite hysterical - the one minute I’m arguing with people who don’t believe anything in the US could possibly be fascist, the next I’m arguing with people who believe fascism can be stopped through voting.

            No - the fascists don’t matter as far as your actual vote is concerned. You can’t “establish” fascism through voting. How much power the fascists get depends completely on the political establishment regardless of how the voting goes. You’ve had four years of Biden and the fascists haven’t grown any weaker, have they?

            When you vote for a liberal you are basically voting for them because they pinky-swore that they won’t hand more and more power to the fascists (never mind them actually doing something about the fascists because they won’t) - but they don’t need your permission to do so. You have to understand that they, being political elites, will inevitably be incentivized to do so.

            There’s a good reason we call US “formal” politics a glorified “good cop/bad cop” routine.

    • Pelicanen@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      1 year ago

      If Pig City was being constructed under Trump, the resistance to it would be ten times stronger.

      I think I once would have believed this but I do not anymore, and I wouldn’t be willing to bet the lives of all people who aren’t white, heterosexual cis-men on a resistance suddenly appearing. If anything, it seems like people are more willing to normalize, or at least look away from, atrocities than I would have ever imagined in the past.

      • Dinsmore@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Feels like for months all we heard about was kids in cages and how terrible it was (under Trump). Now nobody says a gd thing (under Biden). Seems like it’s only acceptable to fight against fascism when it’s “the other team.”

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        1 year ago

        and I wouldn’t be willing to bet the lives of all people who aren’t white, heterosexual cis-men on a resistance suddenly appearing

        You won’t get the chance to bet on it - it is simply the direction in which the US political establishment is careening. By all means, vote your conscience - hell, I’ll vote with you - but don’t be surprised when that doesn’t alter the course much… or even at all.

        If anything, it seems like people are more willing to normalize, or at least look away from, atrocities than I would have ever imagined in the past.

        Certainly - but then, again… a lot of us always have. That’s how we ended up here in the first place, isn’t it?