Pyotr Alexeyevich Kropotkin (December 9, 1842 – February 8, 1921) was a Russian anarchist and geographer known as a proponent of anarchist communism.

    • Ashyr@sh.itjust.works
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      11 months ago

      But they don’t have to look the way they do now.

      I’m fine with detaining dangerous people, but it shouldn’t be arbitrarily awful. There should be a focus on rehabilitation for those who can be and safety for those who cannot.

      • punkisundead [they/them]@slrpnk.net
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        11 months ago

        I think prisons are such an integral part of how many societies work that changing them significantly would either be ineffective in achieving its goals or challenge the status quo too much to be implemented. Thats why many that fight for prison abolition also want change im other parts of society like abolishing the police or capitalism.

      • punkisundead [they/them]@slrpnk.net
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        11 months ago

        Im fine with detaining dangerous people, but it shouldn’t be arbitrarily awful.

        I dont want to start an argument, just add some thoughts and questions that i wouldnt be able to answer myself. I think I can understand this idea but I see many problems with it being implemented, because imo its just super hard to decide if someone is dangerous. And additionally, what exactly means dangerous, who decides if someone is dangerous or not dangerous anymore and is detainment really the best way in dealing with it or is it maybe just the easiest?

        Also I would like to add, detainment is like a super awful thing. You dont even have to make it worse on purpose for that.

        • JacobCoffinWrites@slrpnk.net
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          11 months ago

          I’m not the person you asked but these are questions I’ve been thinking about too as I grapple with discussions around abolition of police and prisons.

          I’ve known people who were driven to move states by a persistent and threatening stalker because nobody would do anything to stop the stalker, right up to a cop casually recommending they get a gun and take care of it themselves. I think the perception of ‘dangerousness’ is ripe for abuse, but I also I think if your society doesn’t have a mechanism for physically separating violent or threatening people from their victims, you’ll either get people trying to solve their problems through violence themselves, or you’ll end up with the Nazi bar problem, where decent members of your society flee your more problematic ones. The PTSD subreddit was full of discussions around the dread people felt at the impending date of their abusers being released from prison. Prisons are a terrible system, and I know the justice system puts victims through the wringer. But for some victims of abuse, rape, and other violence, knowing the people who hurt them cannot reach them seems to be pretty critical to their recovery and basic health. So how does a better society provide that basic safety?

          Exile seems tempting but I think it’s worse, it has the downsides of still cutting the person off from their life and any resources that helped them regulate or mitigate their behavior, with the added problem of basically foisting them on the society’s unprepared neighbors, and of being harder to enforce.

          Counseling without detainment may leave too much room for them to escalate, intimidate, or change tactics, at which point we’re kind of back to the victim either fleeing or taking matters into their own hands.

          I’d also love answers to this

      • Pratai@lemmy.ca
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        11 months ago

        Many, but not all- do offer rehab programs for those that can be.

        • tofuwabohu@slrpnk.net
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          11 months ago

          This depends on the country a bit, but in general, prisons are the opposite of rehabilitation, despite the countries running them telling the contrary.

          How gets one rehabilitated when they are pulled from their home, their job, their social surroundings? Supposedly, people are rehabilitated into society - the one they are excluded from and have no access to in prison. Especially in longer sentences - no internet access, years of societal and technical disruption, societies change in the absence of the prisoners. When they get released, they usually have to start over but with the worst conditions - while rehabilitation in prisons claim to help them go l with their standing.

          Rehabilitation taken serious would look completely different. Prisons are preventive custody and everything else is an excuse to distract from that fact. Some people may try their best in helping prisoners, but they are working against a system that destroys the chances instead of rehabilitation.

          • Pratai@lemmy.ca
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            11 months ago

            The idea is for it to be an undesirable place to be. Not a $10K/rehab spa.

            Don’t do things that put you there.

              • Pratai@lemmy.ca
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                11 months ago

                I said they offer programs to rehab people- NOT spa treatments and one on one therapy sessions. It’s a prison. A place that isn’t supposed to be desirable.

                Tons of ex-cons speak of the benefits of rehabilitation through the prison system. The ones that talk shit- don’t want it.

            • cerement@slrpnk.net
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              11 months ago

              if you are rich, they are a spa – if you are poor, they are only punishment – there is no rehab involved in either case

            • punkisundead [they/them]@slrpnk.net
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              11 months ago

              The idea is for it to be an undesirable place to be.

              A prison with decent living conditions only seems desirable today because homelessness, poverty, food insecurity etc exist.