City’s like Amsterdam are not build for cars. They are allowed but it is mostly people on foot and bicycles. Going over 30 is not possible and dangerous.
On the contrary: Amsterdam was rebuilt for cars in the 1950s-1970s, then re-rebuilt for bikes because they realized that they had made a terrible mistake.
So… it’s not currently built for cars.
The point is, it’s not an “oh, it’s just 'cause it’s old and historic and couldn’t possibly be replicated anywhere else” thing. It absolutely can be done everywhere; the only difference is that Amsterdam is one of the few places that’s had the, frankly, good sense to do it. (I almost wrote “political will” there, but when you consider the fact that car-centric design doesn’t even fucking work for car drivers themselves, it really is more a matter of competence than ideology.)
it’s just 'cause it’s old and historic and couldn’t possibly be replicated anywhere else
Not sure why you’re so insistent on replying to your own strawman argument. The statement is “Amsterdam is not built for cars”. That’s it. That’s what you replied to…
We’re were getting a 20 mph limit for most roads in our UK town (until it was scrapped yesterday) and the local Facebook groups are acting like they’re turning us into an open air prison.
Apparently having shops in walking distance is a Chinese conspiracy, and we must reject the climate emergency, and other such frothing at the mouth…
There’s no point to allowing private cars in cities anyway. Just ban the lot of them.
The only exception i can think of are people with impaired movement that are fit to drive though. But for this we dont need full cars.
There are a few others I can think of but most of those revolve around rare events like moving in or out or buying furniture.
So - how do they get in and out of the cities?
Public transport?
What’s so strange is that still you will find big Toyota, Audi and Mercedes vehicles parked in the center, even though it’s not handy to move that way in the city
i misread that, and thought the entire country was going to implement it. this really does make a lot of sense (in this particular city). but i woudn’t go around and limit traffic in every city to 30km/h like some politicians in germany tried to do.
I’m not aware of any german politician wanting to implement a general speed limit of 30 in every/any city. Instead there is an attempt to allow cities/mayors/city planners to implement speed limits on individual streets for a variety of reasons. As of now many reasons like noise, risk to other road users, even schools/kindergartens in the vicinity are often not sufficient to warrant an individual speed limit according to road traffic regulations.
The workaround Germans seem to have discovered is to have roadworks that last indefinitely.
30kph in every city centre makes sense. It’s safer for everyone, including drivers. Nobody wants to hit a cyclist or pedestrian and you can see more at this speed, and have a shorter length to stop.
It also encourages people to take ring roads if they need to be on the other side of a city and need to have their car there.
Why not?
Wales implemented it country wide. Almost all 30mph limits are now 20mph.
That sounds like a big mistake. I can understand like, 48 km/h per hour in highly populated areas, but going below US school speed limits is going to create lots of offenders (maybe that’s the end game). I can ride faster that 30 km/h on my bike. I can continually do that with as little as a 5% decline from the horizontal axis.
Loudly and visibly changing the rules doesn’t “create offenders”. Offenders aren’t victims of changed rules.
It has been shown time and again that lowering speed limits in cities reduces traffic accidents and emissions at close to no costs to the flow of traffic.
My own city (in Germany, so it really was a heavily-criticized decision) lowered the speed limit on one of the major arterial roads to 30 kph. It is one I have to use regularly, and oh boy, let me tell you: I was soooo opposed to the change. Yet, it really only changed how fast you arrive at the next red light. There is literally no discernable change in how long it takes to pass that street, especially during rush hour. Traffic just got a little more fluid.
It is, however, the street with the most speeding tickets in town. I regularly see one or two mobile speed cameras along the way. And I’ve never been fined. You got to wonder…
Offenders aren’t victims of changed rules.
I’d say they are, if the rules are shit. In this case though the rules are fine imo.
I mean even if this speed limit was shit, it’s not like speed limits in general are invisible and people don’t know what happens if you break them. Every offense in this case is self-inflicted and not caused by the limit itself.
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Actually, I have…
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You’re right, now that you mention it
It is, however, the street with the most speeding tickets in town.
Is it still built like a 50km/h street? If yes then there you have your answer.
What’s your argument?
Streets in Europe are (with few exceptions) narrower than in the US. Is there a natural consequence for speed limits? Does it take some kind of special mental capacity to follow legal speed limits in streets that perceivably could be traversed faster?
Does it take some kind of special mental capacity to follow legal speed limits in streets that perceivably could be traversed faster?
In fact yes it does you practically need to be a superhuman: Narrow streets feel unsafe and drivers automatically slow down. In the US speed limits, where they don’t build streets according to the intended speed but much wider, are set to lower than what the engineers want you to drive at because they expect speeding.
US speed limits are also inconsistent, and the signs announcing them are practically invisible. Have a video.
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Typical walking speed is about 2.5 to 3 MPH suppose your government legislated a universal walking speed limit of 1.5 MPH. I think you can easily see that ridiculous laws create offenders, and the offenders are the victim of bad laws.
Bad faith argument much?
And now back to the real world…
Wait school zone speed limits in the US is higher than 30km/h ?
In my country school zone speed limit is usually 20km/h and there are tons of residential areas as well as more and more cities that restricts big portion of their roads to 30km/h.
This is mostly done to reduce noise pollution as well as mortal accidents.
Remember the american mentality:
As soon as children are born, they don’t matter any more.
Also you are only allowed to drive as fast as to not endanger others. Children are not reliable and predictable. In front of a school during school hours driving at the speed limit is still reckless.
Cars shouldn’t be allowed around schools at all.
Parents need a way to drop off and pick up their kids, especially if it is a time other than school hours- the kid is sick, has a doctor’s appointment, etc.
Not in most of europe, where kids can usually go to school by themselves, either by walking, biking or public transport. It’s all about city planning.
Helicopter parents driving their children to and from school are a big nuisance and safety concern here.
If your child is very sick, walking, biking or public transport would not be the best way to get them out of a school.
There have to be excemptions for those very rare cases of course. Just like there are for fire trucks in case the school building is on fire.
But if children are too sick to walk, an ambulace might be a better solution perhaps?
Thankfully Amsterdam isn’t the first city to do this and most of it is also limited to 30 kph anyway, so we actually this will work out fine.
I can ride faster that 30 km/h on my bike. I can continually do that with as little as a 5% decline from the horizontal axis.
5% is pretty steep, I wouldn’t be surprised if one could reach 30 kph without pedaling at all.
5% is pretty steep
found the dutch person
5% is pretty steep, I wouldn’t be surprised if one could reach 30 kph without pedaling at all.
Technically you can reach that with any amount of drop per distance where the speed gain exceeds drag as long as you don’t specify how long the incline is.
where the speed gain exceeds drag
That’s the question.
I shaved my body and only cycle naked to achieve minimum drag
Just so I can crash into kids faster on an incline
Also 30km/h with a 9kg bike isn’t 30km/h with a 1600kg toyota when you hit someone
If you want to go fast go around the city
Many major European cities already implemented this, and I’ve yet to hear of a single one where it turned out to be “a big mistake”. Can anybody from these cities report (e. g. Helsinki or others)?
but going below US school speed limits is going to create lots of offenders
That’s not really relevant in Europe.
You obviously never been to Amsterdam
30 km/h is somewhere around the point where pedestrians can walk away from a collision with a car. Not unharmed but likely without broken bones.
Yes you can bike faster, but a bike has much less mass so they’re less dangerous for pedestrians in collisions.
Actually there’s so much road crossing from people and bikes in Amsterdam that cars kind of already go to 30km/h in most streets
