- cross-posted to:
- brainworms@lemm.ee
- cross-posted to:
- brainworms@lemm.ee
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Fucking do it you cowards.
I think you’re forgetting about Republicans.
Or more than half of the democrats that do Wall Street’s bidding too.
Or the courts that would throw the law out as soon as it gets challenged the first time
Or wallstreet for just switching to hiring people to hold the land for them as third party agents.
Impossible before the age of computers, but now it’s just a spreadsheet.
They should never have been allowed to buy them to begin with.
The second best time is now.
People require housing. Corporations are people. /s
I mean it’s a free market, it’s not reasonable nor desirable to proactively prohibit all possible bad scenarios
edit: to anyone downvoting, read carefully
I read your comment carefully and still downvoted because its an incredibly dumb thing to say.
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Nice username, fam! I’ve not found an Expanse community around here yet, but I see lots of fans
Wtf, I literally just re-watched the scene 5 minutes ago, and I come on lemmy and see this. Are the planets aligned or am I about to die or something?
Final Destination, Expanse style? That sounds… unpleasant lol
I bet you downvote this!
Edit: shit! I meant to say “won’t!” I bet you won’t downvote this!
I only said that because I’m pretty sure 99% of the people here agree with me, you included but are downvoting as a kneejerk reaction.
There’s never a scenario on the internet where 99% of people agree with you…unless you’re just talking to yourself. Just let it go, not like you lose anything with downvotes.
Then you have expressed yourself poorly and have made no effort to correct that.
What the fuck do you think regulations are for? If we didn’t have them companies would skip crucial steps because they are expensive. Take Tesla for example, removing radar/lidar because of expense and they are bulky. But are nessesarry, shit they’re putting mics outside the car to listen for sirens.a
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why is that?
why is it a dumb thing to say? in a free market, it is wise to take all that you can for your shareholders. Maybe a free market isn’t what you desire?
It’s greedy and antisocial. You’re a moron. Capitalism is a stain on world history.
well, that’s kind of exactly what we’re saying. we are stating what laissez faire capitalism is. i agree that it is antisocial, greedy, immoral and a bane of our existence…and really the major thing holding modern society back. i never said i support a free market (hint: i don’t)…just stating what it is. your reply might come off as antisocial (ie morons)
So the way to counteract that would be passing laws preventing it? The thing being proposed?
This is like me saying “my house is on fire! Put water on it!” And someone replying “you shouldn’t do that because the purpose of fire is to burn things” and thinking they’re clever. Nobody here is pro-fire.
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maybe there is some other kind of problem here, because i’m anticapitalism, if you’re reading the correct thread
That’s a really good point. I should be able to buy some people since it’s a free market and it’s just impossible to curb exploitation.
I don’t wanna get exploited! You better be willing to buy me for a fair price…
“Best I can do is minimum wage and some cheap pizza on labor day.” -somebody
Hmmm… Can you tell me how to use my paid leave? I like it when medical leave gets denied because I wasn’t sick enough. Beat me with those loopholes, daddy!
“You get paid leave? Shit. Who fucked that up?”
that is not what I said at all
Looks like people think that’s what you said. Maybe you should consider clarifying instead of just saying “I didn’t say that” or “read it again”.
If the majority of people are “misunderstanding” you, maybe you should consider the possibility that the problem is with what you said, not with the people reading it.
I’ve looked over it, it’s one very simple sentence.
There’s not much I can do at this point, my comment is caught up in the circlejerk train. That’s just the
redditlemmy experienceIf everyone is misunderstanding you, and you can’t figure out how to reword or explain your intention, that’s not a circle jerk. That’s just you expressing yourself incredibly poorly.
Reword it, delete it, or walk away. Insisting people “read it again” isn’t doing anything.
You must not be very familiar with the internet
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Privatize the gains, socialize the losses.
I read carefully, then un-downvoted so i could downvote you again
Now are downvoting because: What they said isn’t true… Disagree with what was said… Missed that they are pointing out a free market does not give a fuck about you; unless you are profits…
Because it’s inaccurate.
It would be correct and proper for the government to pass laws to protect the population and prevent bad outcomes.
uhmmm that is the point being expressed here…you all just want to fight. Bro describes the exactly what a free market is and people get up in arms here. That’s like if someone describes what a house on fire looks like and then is accused of being pro-house-on-fire. smh
uhmmm that is the point being expressed here…you all just want to fight. Bro describes the exactly what a free market is and people get up in arms here. That’s like if someone describes what a house on fire looks like and then is accused of being pro-house-on-fire. smh
The point being expressed here is the current system is bad and needs to be fixed.
It’s like if someone proposed putting out a house fire and bro came in saying you shouldn’t put out the fire because that’s how fires work. It’s neither profound nor helpful.
Again, you are arguing with people who agree with you.
I was just saying that as I was about to send my 6-year old out to the corner store to go buy some cigarettes for me, since our free market hasn’t imposed any restrictions on that transaction.
Or if you look at the housing market specifically, in my area at least, I can’t buy a second home in the same area as an individual. I can buy investment properties that I’d need to rent out, but I’m forbidden from owning a second residence for myself.
State, Local, and Federal lawmakers are constantly proactively prohibiting bad scenarios. And in this case, it wouldn’t even be proactive, it’s literally something that’s going on right now that needs corrected.
Homes are for people.
A true Libertarian utopia.
If allowing ordinary people to be priced out of owning homes is your idea of a free market, then fuck the free market.
People are priced out of homes specifically because the market has been kneecapped by bad zoning policy.
Homeowners got theirs and then pulled up the ladder
Gods yes. We can’t predict every sort of bad behavior in the market, only react. Bunch of arm-chair quarterbacks in here, “We should have seen this coming!” Watch 10 people tell me exactly how we could have.
And on this issue, it’s high time to react. Doubt it will happen. :(
Fuck the free market. Fuck capitalism. Fuck you, too.
I could use a good lay
Got money?
It’s not a free market… that’s not an actual thing that can ever exist. It’s a state where the markets are in a perfect, frictionless state, where barriers of entry are non-existent and everyone has equal access to trade on the market… Ignoring petty things like needing to actually source things
It is, in fact, both reasonable and desirable for the government to proactively watch and interfere in the markets before they enter a failure scenario, that’s their job in the market.
It’s often willfully misunderstood, but what you’re describing is a half step from lasse faire capitalism. Which is the idea that a “free market” is a stable state, and we just need to let it settle long enough without interference. But that’s literally psuedoscience…
Looking at companies like Blackstone, who buy up houses at auction, lightly flip them and put them back on the market as high-priced rentals. THEY’RE the big reason for the lack of affordable housing.
Remember that Blackstone and the other institutions are only financing it. These companies have names; like American Homes/AMH, invitation, opendoor and so on. There are a lot of them and they are all given billions to go buy as many houses as they can get their hands on… essentially bottomless pockets. And those are just the large ones. There’s plenty of people churning 100s of homes and letting property management companies do all the work, financing new deals with existing rentals as leverage.
Something like 6% of US Homes are owned by Chinese Investors. More than 1 in 20 homes.
I mean, would it be better if we had a thousand mid-sized car dealership style house flippers rather than one singular monolith doing the same thing?
Blackstone agents are operating at a national scale in a market that’s been flush with speculators and flippers going straight back to the colonial era. The high price of real estate is the consequence of housing as a commodity. There’s no more free land to develop on the cheap and no more suburbs for young people to push out into searching for cheap new constructions. Take everyone at Blackstone out of the market tomorrow and you’ll have a hundred smaller banks lining up to repeat their formula by the end of the month.
So long as cash is cheap, housing is in demand, and REITs are a thing, you’re going to have businesses looking to profit off the difference between sale rates and rental rates as well as the gap between the prime rate and the going mortgage rate.
Did you just scoff at the idea of competition improving a market?
One big monopoly looks no different to the consumer than a cartel of mid-sized dealerships. You’re not fixing the underlying speculative demand issue, just changing the number of participants in the speculative racket.
The solution is to make hoarding rental properties an unattractive investment. Put an escalating tax on owning multiple residences. If the 5th property is at 40% tax every year it’s no longer a money maker in a competitive market. Put the money towards tax rebates for single mortgage interest. Now you have buyers back in the market and landlords looking to sell.
Home 1 : 100%
Home2 : 133%
Home 3: 175%
Home 4: 250%
Home 5: 325%
Excellent suggestion. I don’t mind people having a second home or a couple of rentals, but more than that is just greed.
Put the money towards tax rebates for single mortgage interest.
Or just use it to construct new multi-family units that are sold at cost of construction.
Yes it would be better. Monopolies are bad. Near monopolies are bad. The more market power a company gains the more they can charge for no reason at all except “fuck you pay me”.
Monopolies are bad.
Cartels are equally bad. Unless you change the economic incentives in home building and real estate speculation, you are - at best - changing the discrete number of people who get to participate in the profiteering. I don’t particularly care if one national guy or fifty state guys get to ratchet up my housing prices. Big Number Goes Up all the same.
Absolutely. Especially since we just caught them colluding to raise the market price.
There WOULD be more suburbs to develop if we were allowed to work remotely. I would gladly move to the developing suburb of bumfuck-nowheresville if I could go there and keep my job, but I have to stay within a reasonable commuting distance of the nearest metropolis.
Monopolies are bad.
So are cartels.
So why are you advocating for one?
For the same reasons you are, i guess.
So preying on the victims of the growing wealth innequality and income gap. That will surely accelerate the decline of civilization.
Well said, people think that making certain companies go poof will suddenly resolve issues for a long time, without thinking about resource availability, the circumstances which led to the sutuation and the customers who enable them.
Which is the exact reason the government is supposed to step in when there’s this kind of excess in the sector. Especially regarding a need like housing.
Capitalism and its endless profit motive should never be near the things that have direct effect on people’s well-being and livelihood. All the human basic necessities should be capitalism free, housing, healthcare, education… etc… If you want to built a better and healthier nation of course, but no one cares about the nation, money is above everything to these sick fucks.
Why stop at the basic necessities? Put all art into a public museum for example
Achievement unlocked: socialism
Though I absolutely don’t mind!
I kind of agree, but has this ever been done successfully? It seems to me at some point you disincentivize work to the point it all collapses
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Right. Examples?
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Don’t have time to separate the wheat from the chaff today. But I understand if you don’t have any actual sources to back up your assertions.
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So you say, and yet you still offer nothing.
It’s social democracy. It’s a slight socialism under a capitalist umbrella where social services are untouched by capitalism. All of Europe operates this way.
It’s a fair question. The first universal basic income experiments have just begun in the last few years. Based on this article there’s been a little success at least.
https://globalaffairs.org/bluemarble/multiple-countries-have-tested-universal-basic-income-and-it-worksI think we’re only recently getting to a level of technology that we need less human workforce and can still prosper when inevitably some choose not to work.
Thanks, I am in favor of UBI, but like anything else I think the cost of everything will just rise to eat it up. With various trials going on, we should have better data soon
But like, you bring up “human basic necessities” and soon the old arguments about Maslow’s Hierarchy rear their ugly head.
How does this limit a corporation from doing the same thing?
So a hedge fund doesn’t do it, but a specific company does the same thing and that’s fine. What am I missing?
The bill would require hedge funds, defined as corporations, partnerships or real estate investment trusts that manage funds pooled from investors, to sell off all the single-family homes they own over a 10-year period, and eventually prohibit such companies from owning any single-family homes at all.
It does include corporations. For instance the Bezos thing we’ve been hearing about the past couple days would be covered:
Arrived, a young real estate company backed by Amazon.com Inc. founder Jeff Bezos, has just announced its entry into the single-family rental fund space. Arrived currently operates a fractional real estate investing platform that has attracted nearly half a million retail investors since its launch in 2021. The platform allows these investors to purchase shares of single-family rental properties with as little as $100.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jeff-bezos-backed-real-estate-151102586.html
Just so it’s clear, they want to turn our homes into a mini stock market.
This bill won’t pass.
We already live in a completely fucked up dystopia, most people just haven’t realized it.
That sounds like the perfect opportunity to work in property management because the owners will be so diffuse that you could be very lazy and they would be none the wiser
If we actually had a democracy, there would be a total of 0 people against this. It’s so incredibly unfavorable to want corporations to buy houses for profit.
There are people profiting from this either by owning the investment firms e.g. through stocks or by working in them in highly paid positions. In a democracy, the majority might be for such a law, but certainly not everyone.
0 souls then
Inb4 the Republicans vote it down
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Nancy Pelosi’s husband is literally one of these real estate ghouls.
Please do. I’d love to see more supply.
it’s cool they had the idea. hopefully they act on it
Please make it happen, it’s an important first step
Now what’s the chance of this actually passing?
Via referendum? I say 80% chance of a majority.
Congress? 5% is generous
Eh maybe, I can see the attack ads now though.
Special interests in Washington want to destroy the value of your home by placing strict regulations on home ownership! Government beurocrat fat cats wants to put themselves in charge of who can and can’t buy a home! Don’t let the big wigs in Washington destroy your homes value and strangle your children’s future and their inheritance! Vote no on proposition 1! This ad paid for by free homes for all real Americans (a Koch industries subsidiary).
Never underestimate peoples ability to vote against their own interest when partisanship get involved.
With a divided Congress, the bills are unlikely to pass into law this session. But Mr. Smith said legislators needed to start a conversation.
:|
How exactly does Mr. Smith propose a conversation begin with a bunch of seditious asswipes???
It’s probably not intended for them, it’s another issue they want in the media to bring people to the polls next year
First he has to go to Washington…
Dad joke extraordinaire.
Lol
Well, yeah. That’s how politics work. Or should.
Get the issue in front of the people, get them talking. Like we are now. Give one side a chance to say, “See what we tried and got shot down!” You gotta start somewhere.
This is the first I’ve heard of such an initiative and I’m all in.
I wonder which side doesn’t want it to pass /s
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Who ever tabeled this needs to run for your president. Seriously
Step in the right direction, hope some version of it gets passed.
The Republicans won’t let it happen.
I’m sure they’ll have plenty of democrats helping, too.
Wall Street is not the problem, a lack of new housing is, according to David Howard, the chief executive of the National Rental Home Council, a trade association. The country needs anywhere from 2 million to 6.5 million units of new housing, according to various estimates.
“Policies really need to be shaped and crafted so that they support the production, investment and development of new housing,” Mr. Howard said. “I think bills that work against that ultimately are just going to perpetuate the challenges we’re already facing.”
While I certainly disagree with this person on some of their specifics, and don’t necessarily agree with the “teeth” of this bill (10k per home owned isn’t that much in the grand scheme of things, and can just be priced in to an already out-of-control market), seeing a trade organization argue for the actual long-term solution bodes really well for the future of solving the housing crisis.
That’s crazy that they say we need more housing when there are so many empty houses sitting on the market from corporate real estate investing and other house flippers. “Wall Street is not the problem, a lack of new housing is” really sounds like the guy with gasoline and matches in hand saying “it wasn’t me” at the scene of an arson fire.
A significant problem isn’t just the lack of housing, it’s the lack of affordable housing. Builders keep building single family homes in spread out suburbs which is problematic in its own way. But not everyone could afford those homes regardless of whether they are buying or renting.
Investors owning single family homes is a big problem, the bigger problem is exacerbated but not explicitly caused by that. Affordable housing simply isn’t available in places where it’s needed. That’s why people say we need more homes.
Not just single family homes. They could be building starter single family homes, but those are cheap. They could be focusing on middle class family single family homes, but those aren’t as profitable as the luxury housing. They focus on luxury housing both in single family suburbs, and when they build apartment buildings in the cities.
According to the home builders, if you aren’t rich, they won’t build you a home.
The funny thing about empty yet “unaffordable” housing is that if the market actually works correctly it gets lowered in price until a buyer is found.
Good luck with that… They’ll just stick them in REITs
You would think so. But the reality is that large companies would often rather let a property sit empty than devalue it by accepting a lower amount. And when they control enough of the market that there’s no good competition, it breaks the whole “free market” thing.
You or I would be hurting (I presume) if we owned a property and weren’t living in and weren’t making any money off of it. These holding companies just see a line on a spreadsheet under the “assets” column.
I did say “if the market works correctly” for a reason.
A lack of housing is very explicitly our problem. Houses that are empty are not unowned.
Until housing is no longer seen as an investment, which can only happen if we are allowed to build sufficient housing, housing will continue to go up in value, and thus more people will invest
Anyone who sees their home as their “nest egg” is part of the problem.
So you build 500,000 new homes and blackstone or other companies buy 450,000, meaning you only actually generated 50,000 new homes. No, corporate interests are the vast majority of the problem with housing. Your neighbor renting out their house after buying a 2nd isn’t the issue.
Assuming some large capital group buys all those homes, they’re going to do it to try to make money off of it.
More supply means lower prices
Constraining supply, either by not building, or by buying everything available, means higher prices, so they don’t have to sell as many houses to make the same revenue.
Gonna go ahead and throw out that people whose job it is to make said revenue saying that selling more makes them more revenue makes this not track
Until housing is no longer seen as an investment, which can only happen if we are allowed to build sufficient housing
It can happen through legislation.
Yes, legislation that changes zoning policy and incentivizes building.
That would be the neolib solution, yes
So, the correct one.
The head of an organization that represents landlords is advocating for building more houses. Now why do you think that is?
Because they want to build more to make more money.
Please explain how this is a bad thing? This is rental org explicitly stating that the lack of supply is hurting their growth and profit.
That means they believe that the supply/demand curve is so out of whack that cheaper housing will make them more money.
This is absolutely and 100% a win-win.
Because I believe, in general, landlords are a bad thing.
This guy is getting priced out of the market by big money hedge funds the same way he prices out families looking to buy their single homes. Making housing “affordable” by increasing the supply of new houses disproportionately benefits the wealthy. After all, if you have $100 million you want to spend on property ownership, would you rather buy one hundred $1 million properties, or one thousand $100,000 properties of the same size?
You want to make housing affordable? Stop letting parasites like these buy dozens of houses.
Making housing “affordable” by increasing the supply of new houses disproportionately benefits the wealthy.
Some people need to imagine how they can get cheap thingies while the people who they bought from still make a profit. Does this matter? With cheap houses they will have many children which will push for more houses until either the earth becomes just houses or their demands are squashed and they become sardines.
Does this matter?
Yes lol.
Also, fun fact, we can build really tall things.
Goodbye
Lmao
The trade organization is arguing for investment into their market rather than regulations that would improve the efficiency of their market. The bill is likely a negative for them, and they want something that would be a positive.
The situation is not caused by a lack of number of houses. It’s caused by the lack of efficiency in housing. It’s more beneficial to leave units empty than to fill them because there’s little penelty (and sometime incentives) to do so. There should be something like a land value tax that pushes for more efficient use of land, not investments that push for less efficient use.
The trade organization is arguing for investment into their marke
This is the only solution to the housing crisis. We have too little housing. We need more.
The situation is not caused by a lack of number of houses
This is not supported by math.
There should be something like a land value tax that pushes for more efficient use of land
Stop, stop - I can only get so erect! I’d absolutely love to see more of a push for LVTs, but we both know that’s our fantasy and not a serious discussion in the near term.
why were they ever allowed to do this? why should the system allow you to gamble on houses?
Because they saw an opportunity to fuck America again after imploding Wall St in 2007-08.
Rampant unfettered capitalism only cares about the money they can make, never about the people’s lives they destroy.
