I feel like the idea that women are otherworldly creatures instead of people and seeing someone being nice to their partner as “the man having tamed a female and convinced her to treat him well” has a lot to do with his problem.
I hate how much that is preserved socially, there’s no good reason why that hasn’t gone away at least a decade or two ago.
It’s learned helplessness. Once they get rejected 15 times in a row for being a weirdo or something similar, they start to think in that instead of either reflecting back on the experience and trying to be better, or looking elsewhere.
Simply going from zero self improvement to nonzero may not be enough. That’s why we call a situation like this a hole. A person in a hole needs to climb to get to ground level.
well yeah i get how you can start doubting yourself after that. sad as fuck.
Totally agree. I’ve been in a relationship for 5 years now, and it most definitely didnt involve me trying to tame her 🤣
It was just luck to meet. We both liked each other. That’s literally it.
The important feat is making yourself into a person that the other person would like to have in their life and makes their life better.
Yeah, seeing them as a person seems like a crucial part in that equation.
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Don’t forget the flowers
Where was there talk of taming women?
Right around when he referred to her as a “free masseuse”.
There wasn’t, that’s what it sounded like to me, you’re welcome to disagree, angrily if you feel like it.
There wasn’t. FierroGamer got way too many upvotes for his stupid comment.
Cool! I didn’t know I was getting good numbers. That’s how I read the thing but you’re welcome to disagree, I certainly don’t read “convinced a woman to touch him gently” as someone recognizing the woman is a person who might’ve chosen to do so without convincing the same way she chose to rub his shoulders too.
OOP is a 30yo forever alone virgin posting to 4chan, I think this kind of perception of women is par for the course. At least the outcome wasn’t totally terrible and he walked away without offending anyone, probably the best we could hope for.
Yes. Being isolated is a result and a cause of strange views of other people.
It’s a positive feedback loop that one needs to accept massive discomfort — on the part of the re-integrating person and on the part of the normal people they’re re-integrating with — in order to escape.
Avoidance of disturbing others is a key part of men self isolating.
It definitely reeks of incel energy, which is unsurprising considering the source.
Yeah well that’s kinda what happens
Of course people want make this guy into ultra Hitler and blame the situation entirely on him.
If it wasn’t clear, I wasn’t saying he’s the most horrible person in the world but rather that his issue is most likely linked to the way he sees women.
I also could’ve sworn I made a point about it being a societal issue rather than just that individual’s
you were plenty clear. I have no idea what that person read.
Funny thing, how the words “blame” and “power” refer to exactly the same thing.
Anon imagining a giant, insurmountable gap between his life and his coworker’s life is a huge part of the problem.
He has a job, goes to the gym and apparently he is able to experience emotions. Also, a seemingly well-adjusted person inviting him home immediately suggests he is able to make a good and trustworthy impression.
He can jump the gap easily, he just doesn’t know it, so he’s timidly staring to the other side and imagining what it must be like to live there.
If you think you’re flawed, unattractive and unworthy of love, you can easily remain untouched way into your adult life, just by sabotaging yourself.
He is looking over the fence seeing the grass being greener.
But doesn’t notice the gate
Well sometimes you need help to see that gate. If he has not seen the gate yet then how will he magically see it now until it is pointed out
Of course, the gate may just look like a fence to them.
Let’s be honest here, given that we have a partial, biased peek into anon’s life, there could be a myriad of reasons that make that apparently small gap a far more serious problem. He may have a notoriously ugly face or body, he may suffer from heavy anxiety at the tought is becoming intimate with another person as a result of trauma, he may have atypical nonverbal communication, he may not want to form a connection with someone he doesn’t really have much in common with, he might be a mysoginist. These possibilities would limit his options a lot, and looking for someone when you’re supposedly doing everything right but still having so much trouble is painful.
If not saying Anon shouldn’t look for tools to actually find a partner if he wants to put in that effort, but that we shouldn’t underestimate his difficulties.
Also, maybe he has body dismorphia which destroys his self confidence and therefore limits his contact to women even more.
Anon’s co-worker would probably be willing to try and help him, especially given that he was helping them. The social nature of humans is our low-key superpower.
Evolutionary biologist here.
The social nature of humans is our high key superpower. It’s an increasingly common position that our individual intelligence is at least in significant part a side effect of an evolutionary arms race in an increasingly complex social environment, and that this was added to by the multilevel selection dynamic of increasingly cooperative groups. See EO Wilson for more details, as he’s one of the more prominent biologists who studied the phenomenon.
Our social nature is powerful, sure. Sweating, though…
Sweating is what allows you to survive in most climates as well, what is wrong with it on that front? It even helps with pheromones delivery, double whammy! )
Would be great and all if I weren’t sweating every time the temperature goes above 10°c
You can train for that
Or just move to a colder climate
A place that stays below 10c year round isn’t a cooler climate it damn near a polar climate.
Pro tip: use Fahrenheit, you can go way higher.
Well, its okay not to win in the natural selection) Luckily for people we do not have to adapt to an environment, we have means to either change it or move to another, more fitting one. You are evolved for higher latitudes, did you consider moving to an icy region?
My horny ass was waiting til coworker and his wife asked to get fucked by op
A+ for the literary exercise. Authror played us like a fiddle. I still love these greentexts, even if they’re fake. All good fun.
Yeah I definitely thought it was either going into full threesome fantasy or that OP would get a boner or do some other high IQ move on the wife.
Maybe they would have if op hadn’t ran out! At least that’s what I’m going to imagine…zip
Same homie same
Definitely looks like that’s where it could have gone.
I wanted to give you an upvote, but you are at 69 right now an I couldn’t bring myself to do it.
You might wanna try dating apps, its often easier than most would like to meet swingers and couples looking for their third, their unicorn. But negotiating a threesome is more difficult than most of them are ready for.
Oh you sweet bean. I really want to comment on this and not be dismissive. But I am quite old and very sexualy experimental. I’m polyam with two partners and I’ve been a bull for couples before. But thank you for trying to direct people that maybe less knowledgeable then myself. Keep being kind!
Hehe. Keep living that awesome sex life!
A 22 year old that’s married with a house?
Lol
Just said his house. At no point did I interpret this to mean he owned it. If your a renter you still refer to it a my house when inviting people over.
“hey, wanna come over at my landlord’s house?”
What a dumbass, had that masseuse chick right there and he married a building
Renting exists.
Yeah these creative writing exercises are getting very creative
He could be in the military. I know a few people married with houses in the US at about that age, and the story fits.
He’s fucked his life up 3 times then
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My fiance put the down payment on our house and had us moving in when she was 23, so it’s definitely possible even on meager income. We don’t have the nicest house in the world, but it’s good enough and we got lucky on the timing, it would cost us a lot more now, only 5 years later.
To anyone who is in the position of anon, the task is simple, just spend time with them. Treat them like people, which is what they are, instead of something to be won or to be won over.
Mutual respect, common principles, and a spark is all that’s really needed. Understand that while you may be interested, they might not be. Would you really want to be with someone who doesn’t genuinely want to be with you? Probably not, so just keep going. You’ll get that spark eventually and things will kick off. Until then, be a good person and treat everyone with respect.
The whole confidence game is a bit misleading too. Confidence comes from being proud of yourself, more than anything. If you’re not proud of yourself, perhaps that’s an area to improve. Do things that you’ll be proud of, and become someone who is confident in the process. Understand that not everyone will be impressed by your achievements, and that’s ok. It’s not a competition.
Any person who will shame others for their interests probably aren’t worth knowing.
If you have serious struggles with confidence and relationships, there’s no shame in seeking help with the council of a friend or from a professional.
Be well.
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Got it, hit the gym in VR chat
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To anyone who is in the position of anon, the task is simple, just spend time with them. Treat them like people, which is what they are, instead of something to be won or to be won over.
For OP, who is lacking massively in experience with both intergender emotional connections as well as intergender physical intimacy, your methods are unlikely to work anymore. Most age-appropriate women for him are going to be looking for an experienced man, and will be revolted by his lack of experience.
And yes, even my wife (46) confirmed this in a recent conversation last year, and she’s pretty darn progressive. Beyond a certain age - usually around 22, but it differs with each woman - most women start getting turned off by any inexperience a man might have with emotional and physical intimacy. By this age, women begin to want and prefer an experienced man who has proven his worth with prior relationships.
Why? Because an older man without experience practically screams “I am an exceptionally poor choice for you” precisely because no other woman has decided to take a chance on him – this is an actual preselection sexual strategy found in almost all women.
Sure, he might still find someone. But at his age, the likelihood that he’ll be chosen for any reason other than being an ATM and/or a surrogate father to children who aren’t his, is statistically about as close to 0% as he can get. He has about as much chance of finding a truly good and loving woman (who is still single, childless, and not below the half-plus-seven rule) as he does winning the Powerball several times in a row.
You start off strong and then go fully off the incel cliff at the end there
Provide a specific criticism. Right now you’re attacking tone.
You start off strong and then go fully off the incel cliff at the end there
Ah, yes. Because resorting to an ad hominem is just such a good option when a reasoned counter argument is impossible to provide.
Interesting how you reach for a tool used almost exclusively to shame men into compliance with the narrative. Especially since it is impossible for me to be an incel in the first place - I am married, FFS. I just refuse to be blind to reality and facts.
I agree that it limits the number of woman that might be options.
But you are making it sound neat impossible. And that that is just not true.
Somebody will be out there who sees something in op. It might take a bit to find her, but honestly, as long as he learned to treat her as a human beeing and not as an asset to aquire he’ll be good.
I met my wife with 36 while she was 38. There are reasons she was single. There where reasons I was a single.
We have been the happiest couple I can imagine and I can’t fathom how much luck I had.
Don’t give up. Learn to be a descent humans. The rest will fall into place eventually.
You’re making one very serious assumption that ruins your entire argument.
You assume that all women 22+ are going to have the same opinion as your wife.
You’re assuming that I’m speaking exclusively about lonely men, not even stopping to consider that the advice I gave would have any use to women.
Factually, there are plenty of lonely women, ladies who may never have been kissed, etc. The difficulties that would lead someone to be in the position of being, for lack of a better term, a 40 year old virgin, are not exclusive to men.
There are entire communities dedicated to people who are “forever alone” (so far), with other people who are the same.
And that’s not even considering all of the other types of intimate relationships people can have.
It’s so arrogant to think that your small, isolated and anecdotal experience is the only way things are, or could be. Then you use that anecdote to essentially tell people who are in that position that they’re essentially without hope. How cruel. Even if your words had merit, throwing in the face of people trying to give people genuine advice is simply one of the worst things you could have done.
Clearly, your mother never told you that “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all”.
Enjoy your ratio.
Can someone get me in contact with green text anon guy? I’m a licensed massage therapist, I’m a woman, my hobbies are working out and he likes working out too and it was so poignant how he responded to that massage and he appreciates women and massage and health and his reaction to being the sad lonely third wheel was so heartbreaking and he deserves love.
Don’t choose a guy to fix him, it does good for neither of you.
She might be intending to help him, not be with him.
This.
Unfortunately, this old quote is true far more often than not:
Women marry men hoping they will change. Men marry women hoping they will not. So each is inevitably disappointed.
This was a truly wholesome response, not that garbage that reddit considers a wholesome moment
Hey i like working out too
Loneliness epidemic. Anon is not alone. I mean, he is alone in a way, but he is also not alone in a different way.
Totally.
I’m there right now in a way. Between pandemic, being single, and living off-grid in the woods…
It’d been 2 years since I had any physical contact with anyone. Was visiting a friend a few weeks ago and they hugged me when I left. I had to pull back because I could feel the emotions building. Until that moment I hadn’t realized how lonely I was and how much I missed being close to another person. Didn’t think I had the desire to date again but now I know I have the need.
I was expecting surprise threesome but received surprise depression instead
Anon flew so close to the sun and didn’t even know how hot it was.
I have quite a bit of sympathy for this man. Never being loved or touched makes for a broken mind. As repugnant it is to say I’m relieved he turned his misery into self hatred rather than anger to those around him. Hopefully he will either find someone or ages out of the desire for romantic companionship thus ending his turmoil.
What the fuck are you talking about. Self hate is surely not helpful for anything and definetly not for finding people that like you or turing into a decent person. smh
Self hate can go three ways: deterioration, motivation, or repression.
Deterioration is the worst outcome for the individual. Self hate becomes learned helplessness which can cripple a person’s mental state.
Motivation is usually the most productive. Using that self hatred as a starting point to address personal issues. The original author stated they were going to the gym on the regular, considering what they wrote I would conjecture self hatred might be the motivation there.
Repression varies in harm to an individual. You either accept and move on about negative aspects about yourself or you ignore them outright. It’s the bottling up of negativity, not addressing the underlying issues. This is the way some people handle criticism, which can be disastrous for society when powerful people keep adopting this method.
Now to address your statement about self hatred not being helpful for finding someone or becoming a decent person; not processing negative emotions isn’t healthy and a girlfriend isn’t going to be a magic fix for the author to be happy.
Ahh so the real reason Jeff Bezos is so successful is because he was never hugged as a child
Nice long paragraph. First you tell the reader that self hate has three different outcomes without any backup for your presumptuous claims and then you want them to take the rest at faith value too. Thats asking a little bit too much.
There are many sources for motivation and i would dare claim self hate is not motivating anyone. Overcoming self hate might give you motivation but thats the key aspect. Its like saying being poor or starving are good motivations. No they are not. Getting better is.
Your whole wall of text sounds like something a mediocre motivation guru would tell people on youtube. If you ask me, you are talking out of your ass, maybe because you overcame your own self hate (which i very much hope).
If you would tell me you struggle with self hate i would tell you to get help. Professional if you can manage.
You don’t seem to understand loneliness much.
I’m one of the loneliest people in the world. I’ve been this way for decades. Whether or not I understand loneliness I can’t say, but I’ve got plenty of experience in it.
We can tell. Keep it to yourself. Your misery only demonstrates you’re deeply out of touch. It does not give you special wisdom or understanding of how other people operate or feel, no matter how much you like to imagine it.
You sound like a lonely person indeed.
You’re projecting.
What’s a “khv wizard”?
Kissless handholdless virgin. Basically “never been kissed, never held hands, never had sex.” There’s a running internet joke that if you’re still a virgin by the age of 40, you get rewarded with wizard powers.
30
Kissless handholdless (I’ve seen some say hopeless} virgin
I thought the h stood for hugless.
I’ve seen it used for either. KHHV means both.
How come such people don’t understand that they might need help, professional help?
Is it shame or they don’t understand there might be a serious problem?
I am/was in a similar situation. Getting better is such an insurmountable thing when you’re there. When things have been so bad for so long that they’re not just normal but comfortable in a terrible way, just telling a friend about it is extremely difficult to do. Even if you can gather together the will to try to seek out professional help, you probably won’t keep it long enough to actually make that far. And, some part of you that you’re desperately trying to keep quiet is telling you that if getting help is that easy then you’ve just wasted your life laying around being helpless and useless and shitty when it could have been better and that’s something else weighing down the “kill yourself” side of the scale. You’ve been accepting it and coping with it for so long that it’s the only future you can ever see yourself having.
I think a lot of them don’t believe therapy can change anything about their situation.
They don’t think it has anything to do with their mental health. They believe that them being lonely, unwanted and unworthy of love is just the natural state of things and all they can do is learn to cope with it. And as long as they can function and get by most days, that’s as good as it will ever get for them. So in their logic, therapy makes no sense because there’s nothing to improve.
The very low default state of being is very accurate. It’s how you survive when things are that bad, you can’t hope things will get better because that won’t happen and it will only push you lower than you already were when you inevitably give that hope up again. You are incapable of being close to people, because it’s just not possible to support you. You’ll just end up dragging them down. Trying to find a relationship is just not something you’re capable of, and yet you still resent the loneliness. You either blame yourself and the depression gets worse, or you blame the people you couldn’t have a relationship with anyways because you can’t try and really go down the road to inceldom.
It’s not like most people going through this are unaware of their mental health problems. It’s just that the thought patterns you’re stuck in keep you stuck in them. Getting help seems like a herculean task, and you will never have the strength to attempt it.
And get help where? I have different issues which I even have a proper diagnosis for and even then no therapist will even put me on a waiting list. The few times I have gotten in to see a therapist I only got a few sessions before they all basically started shoving me out the door. I’m mostly functional and not actively suicidal so I’m just not a priority. They all have people with worse issues that need to be helped so I’m at the bottom of the triage list. OOP is working, excercising, and socializing. They’re even more functional than I am. No therapist is going to so much as give them the time of day if my experience is anything to go by.
I don’t know in what state psychological help is where you live, but today the are more options for that than ever before. But yeah I’m sure it’s difficult.
I’m in the US and actually in a state where medical care is literally world class (I live less than an hour from the Mayo Clinic) so I’m probably even more lucky than most people as far as options go.
A lot of the issue is what insurance will cover. I can’t afford to pay a couple hundred dollars out of pocket every week to talk to a therapist. But the options my insurance covers also just so happen to be the options everyone elses insurance covers so they are all booked solid with people who are in far more critical condition than me. In general there just aren’t enough therapists to go around so those that are available need to focus where they are most needed first. I get that. It’s literally no different than hospital triage. It’s just hard not to see it as being told that your issues aren’t bad enough that anyone cares. Or even worse, maybe you’re just faking it.
or both and maybe even some other things
Man that’s a rough read
Haha relatable
Sadly I can relate to anon.
