• VariousWorldViews@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    48
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    1 year ago

    Eating the rich is by far the most eco-friendly approach as it can dramatically reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

    • PanaX@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      I vehemently disagree with this statement.

      We need to compost the rich and use that as a soil amendment to grow heirloom vegetables.

      • Erk@cdda.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        One Elon musk can feed a family for a year.

        One farm fertilized with musk mulch can feed a city block!

    • r1veRRR@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      Ok, are actively working on this? Is your work on it so horrendously demanding of all your attention of every single day, that you couldn’t ALSO go vegan, or vegetarian, or just eat less meat? Eat the rich is just a fun day dream and a lazy excuse to not do what you can (like going vegan).

      Eating the rich would also vastly reduce racism, sexism, classism, and worker exploitation. Can I therefore ignore my negligible personal impact, and keep being racist, sexist, classist, and buy only the cheapest clothes crafted by the most exploited third world toddlers?

  • krayj@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    21
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    This crucially important caveat they snuck in there:

    “Prof Scarborough said: “Cherry-picking data on high-impact, plant-based food or low-impact meat can obscure the clear relationship between animal-based foods and the environment.”

    …which is an interesting way of saying that lines get blurry depending on the type of meat diet people had and/or the quantity vs the type of plant-based diet people had.

    Takeaway from the article shouldn’t be meat=bad and vegan=good - the takeaway should be that meat can be an environmentally responsible part of a reasonable diet if done right and that it’s also possible for vegan diets to be more environmentally irresponsible.

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      That’s both absolutely true and a massive distraction from the point. An environmentally friendly diet that includes meat is going to involve sustainable hunting not factory farming. In comparison an environmentally friendly vegan diet is staples of meat replacements and not trying to get fancy with it. It’s shit like beans instead of meat, tofu and tempeh when you feel fancy. It means rejecting substitutes that are too environmentally costly such as agave nectar as a sweetener (you should probably use beet or cane based sweetener instead).

      So in short eat vegan like a poor vegan not like a rich person who thinks veganism is trendy

      • Awesomo85@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        1 month ago

        “So in short eat vegan like a poor vegan not like a rich person who thinks veganism is trendy”

        But in the context of this conversation, wouldn’t eating like a poor vegan rely heavily on buying products that also have a heavy impact on the environment?

        You would have to buy cheaper products which come from mass produced farms that use TONS and TONS of water! And generate TONS and TONS of carbon emissions during production of those products.

        To be vegan AND advocate for conservation(you can advocate for something no matter your own behavior. That’s the wrong word to use) to claim that your lifestyle is better for the environment than your non-vegan counterparts, you have to have money.

    • usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      1 year ago

      If I source my beef or lamb from low-impact producers, could they have a lower footprint than plant-based alternatives? The evidence suggests, no: plant-based foods emit fewer greenhouse gases than meat and dairy, regardless of how they are produced.

      […]

      Plant-based protein sources – tofu, beans, peas and nuts – have the lowest carbon footprint. This is certainly true when you compare average emissions. But it’s still true when you compare the extremes: there’s not much overlap in emissions between the worst producers of plant proteins, and the best producers of meat and dairy.

      https://ourworldindata.org/less-meat-or-sustainable-meat

      Plant-based foods have a significantly smaller footprint on the environment than animal-based foods. Even the least sustainable vegetables and cereals cause less environmental harm than the lowest impact meat and dairy products [9].

      https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/14/8/1614/htm

    • HubertManne@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      yes. when you look at charts and such. Someone who exclusively ate meat for some reason who moved to chicken would have a greater impact than someone who exclusively ate chicken and went vegan. Sheep did not show up so well either so im guessing ruminants in general are not going to be so hot. Anyway I would encourage folk to keep it in mind and do what they can. I realize go vegan results in many. Well eff it all then but man just avoiding beef is big impact.

      • FermatsLastAccount@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 year ago

        Someone who exclusively ate meat for some reason who moved to chicken would have a greater impact than someone who exclusively ate chicken and went vegan.

        But that first person could have an even bigger environmental impact by becoming Vegan instead of only eating chicken.

          • r1veRRR@feddit.de
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Sure, and if we could only do one, we should choose accordingly. We can do both, simultanously. Exactly like how we don’t have to choose between eating less meat and driving less cars.

          • CantSt0pPoppin@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            This is true, however, not realistic in some parts of the world. For instance, in the United States, Republicans have waged a war on bodily autonomy, which includes the Roe v. Wade ruling and states creating departments to hunt down citizens who go out of state to have abortions. There are also countries where sex education is not prohibited. So, take these things into consideration while thinking about potential solutions. That being said, you are right, and you can do something about it by voting, if you are able to, wherever you live.

        • HubertManne@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          yes but if you actually convince someone who eats just chicken to go vegan it will have less of an effect if you actually convince a big red meat eater to limit to chicken.

      • Nepenthe@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 year ago

        Do you remember a source for that info? Or at least suggestions? I’m interested to read into it, but I’m not really sure what to even google for that

    • thehatfox@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yes, I think it’s vital to avoid thinking in absolutes over carbon footprints if we are to make real progress. We can argue endlessly over the “necessity” of consuming meat, but that becomes a distraction. Many things are not “necessary”, but most people are not realistically going to live in caves wearing carbon neutral hair shirts.

      We need to continue increasing transparency on the impact of different animal products, so consumers can make informed choices. While also accepting they may not always be perfect.

      • Singar@citizensgaming.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        The only way to stop people from eating meat is to make a vegan food that tastes better than a bacon cheeseburger.

    • Hank@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yeah I barely eat beef anymore, mostly chicken. I don’t want to give up on eating animals, especially since I’m trying to get into shape right now and it would be hard to eat healthy and get enough protein to build up muscle mass.

      • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Do whatever you want but just so you know Arnold Schwarzenegger is a vegetarian now. It’s much less difficult than people think to get enough protein to bulk up without meat unless you’re doing hardcore body building. Beans and rice is a high protein dinner. Peanut butter is amazing for bulking.

  • Move to lemm.ee@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    14
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    In this thread: Shit loads of people who will say they care about the climate crisis on one day, then say they don’t care about the 18.5% of global carbon emissions that the meat industry causes the next day because they can’t get over the decade worth of anti-veganism jokes and memes that they’ve constantly repeated uncritically.

    Individual habits MUST be changed to solve this part of the problem, there is literally no way around that. Getting triggered and writing screeds because you’ve spent decades getting caught up in hate over food choices won’t stop the planet burning.

        • float@waveform.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          Some people have made eating meat and making fun of vegans their entire personality. They buy things and spend time posting on social media about it. It is basically their hobby. Really sad, honestly.

          • Move to lemm.ee@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I think part of it is that, similar to console wars there’s like a consumer choice loyalty thing. But on top of that there’s also a resistance generated by the moral part. And that’s all in addition to the usual resistances to change.

    • Noedel@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Nope, gotta blame “the cooperations” because God forbid you admit cooperations only pollute because of your own demand.

      Animal agriculture is a particularly good example here because literally nothing will ever make meat sustainable (except growing it in a lab).

      • joonazan@discuss.tchncs.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Growing it in a lab is likely worse that growing it in an animal. Synthetic imitations are the only efficient replacement.

      • Move to lemm.ee@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yeah but we need to dial everything back, because we can’t dial all industries back. Every single gain that we can make is worthwhile and this one is easy for almost everyone except those with understandable dietary problems like IBS sufferers and crohns. It’s an area that we could completely eradicate our carbon output in, not just that but certain crops can actually be carbon positive so increasing what we need of them through replacement in diet is actually beneficial.

        If you don’t make the change there won’t be any texture or taste soon because climate change is going to make the food supply collapse. If your country doesn’t have a revolution in the chaos the government will go into rationing and you will have no choice. If the revolution succeeds the new government will do the same. And if that does not happen the country will just be in persistent civil war as people starve and die. These are the incoming realities of climate change. They are unavoidable if action is not taken literally yesterday.

      • Move to lemm.ee@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        This mindset is going to get us all killed. I don’t think you’re quite aware of how serious it is. Climate scientists are now saying that things are happening faster than we ever predicted, they are warning that tipping points will be hit in the next 2-5 years. The time for change is now or literally never.

        and aren’t just using the climate as an excuse to push veganism

        I am not even a vegan. I can see how right this is though. I did smoke in the past though and I know how hard that was to give up, I also know what a load of bollocks excuses I made up to justify continuing it.

    • bloodfart@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      On the other hand, we could always just wait for the rich to tighten meat production and put us all on nutri-loaf.

    • HeuristicAlgorithm9@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      No amount of individual choices can save the planet. The climate change causes by corporations is sufficiently world ending. So even if literally every single person on the planet went vegan it wouldn’t be enough. The idea of a personal carbon footprint was created by BP in order to make people put the blame on themselves. The only way to stop it is mass industrial action. Personal choice, at least at this point, is completely irrelevant.

      • Djennik@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        The only way to do this is to not buy products that are incredibly harmful to the climate and voting for politicians that want to sharpen climate policy. Industries won’t regulate themselves. Acting like the consumer/voter can’t do shit is just straight up lying and results in inaction.

        • HeuristicAlgorithm9@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          I never said anything about not voting for industrial action. But if you look at it logically, if there’s no industrial action with or without consumer choices the world burns, but if there is industrial action then with or without consumer choices (partly because the industrial action would alter what choices are available) the world has a chance to survive. So in our current situation devoting energy and thought to consumer choices is not just pointless if you would otherwise be working towards industrial action in any capacity it is actively detrimental (hence why BP created it as a concept)

          • Djennik@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Again who is going to work towards industrial action? Not the industries… That’s not how capitalism works. Do you really think that asking them to be more climate friendly will work?

            Industries listen to two things: money and policy. And I’m not even so sure about the latter. Vote at the ballot and vote with your wallet.

            If you don’t want to change, the CEO of BP won’t either because he’s still getting those tasty dollars out of your pockets at the pump and through government aid.

            • Gutless2615@ttrpg.network
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              How do you think regulations work?? The poster is correct, no amount of individual action will save us. We need to collectively fight for regulations that force - not ask - businesses to change. “That’s now how capitalism works” — what does that even mean??

  • Another Llama ⓥ@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    11
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    A couple of people have spoken to me before about wanting to cut back on, or completely cut meat from their diets, but didn’t know where to start. If anyone reading this feels the same way, here’s some fairly basic recipies that I usually recommend (Bosh’s tofu curry is straight up one of the best currys i’ve ever had - even my non-vegan family members love it)

    Written:

    Videos:

    Tofu is also super versatile and is pretty climate-friendly. there’s a bazillion different ways to do tofu, but simply seasoning and pan frying some extra/super firm tofu (like you do with chicken) with some peppers and onions, for fajitas, is an easy way to introduce yourself. Here’s a little guide for tofu newbies: A Guide to Cooking Tofu for Beginners - The Kitchn. If you wanna level up your tofu game with some marinades here’s six.

    Lentils and beans are also super planet friendly, super cheap, and super versatile! You’ll be able to find recipies all over that are based around lentils and beans so feel free to do a quick internet search.

    Sorry for the huge, intimidating wall of text! I do hope someone interested in cutting back on meat found this useful though :)

  • bossito@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    I upvoted because this message still didn’t reach everyone, but I guess it’s just that people are in denial… like, isn’t this obvious? And weren’t there already dozens of studies proving it?

    • marmo7ade@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      1 year ago

      I got the message and I don’t care. Humans evolved to eat animals. B12 is an essential vitamin whose primary source is meat and dairy. The entire country of India is B12 deficient because of their diet:

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6540890/

      For humans to live, other organisms must die. We are part of the cycle. You want to preserve the biosphere that allows humans to survive? Reduce the number of humans. I am child free.

        • sicjoke@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          1 year ago

          Agreed, but it’s too easy to come after plebs like me and my eating habits when comparably private air flight is responsible for orders of magnitude more co2.

          Me turning down my heating or eating less bacon is not going to have the kind of impact that big corporations, government, and super wealthy could have if they curbed their destructive habits.

          • NotAPenguin@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            How do we hold evil corporations accountable if not refusing to give them our money?

            We can do better in our own lives while advocating for bigger change.

    • ██████████@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      people ate meat for MILLIONS OF YEARS with negligible global warming effect from the animals

      vegans going start blaming the Assyrianz for inventing husbandry before blaming Exxon Mobile BP

      like dude pick your battles

          • Spzi@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Certainly if we also stop indirect subsidies like the failure to internalize externalities. Include the climate damage caused in the price tag, and people will love a veggy curry instead.

        • ██████████@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          I am a vegan bro I hate meet Because I don’t like the taste. I hate vegans trying to turn a food PREFERENCE into a snobbery high horse thing. dude eating Factory Farm Veggies is just as bad if not worse (see Monsanto)

          Maybe Boop A Pipeline if you are truly morally superior

          • NotAPenguin@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            arrow-down
            7
            ·
            1 year ago

            Veganism is not a food preference, you are not vegan.

            Veganism is a stance to avoid harming non-human animals.

  • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    I was just talking about this idea with a friend. We decided it would be political suicide in the US for anyone to suggest eating less meat.

    People would literally rather see the world burn than give up their chicken nuggets.

    I’m not even hardcore vegetarian. I looked at the situation and agreed it’s hard to ethically justify eating meat. So I started eating less. I’m down to pretty much just “sometimes I get a pizza slice with a meat topping if there’s nothing good without meat”. Maybe I’ll cut that out too one day.

    • gmtom@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      If you could tell the average American, with 100% certainty and undeniable proof that going vegan for a month would save the lives of 1,000 children, they would go out, buy as much meat as possible and eat it smugly in front of you and ask you repeatedly if it’s triggering you.

    • EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Very true, but vegans are still gonna shit on you for cutting out less that 100% of animal products from your life. Idk how they can be so desperate to be superior to others that they would actively discourage improving your lifestyle just because it could be even better

      • AngrilyEatingMuffins@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 year ago

        I’m killing half as many creatures for my transient pleasure as I was last year.

        Oh, why not just stop murdering entirely?

        HOW DARE YOU TRY TO SHOVE YOUR BELIEFS DOWN MY THROAT

        • Spzi@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’m killing half as many creatures for my transient pleasure as I was last year.

          Oh, why not just stop murdering entirely?

          Sorry, it does not work that way. Each way of doing agriculture kills creatures. There are insects, rodents, snails and birds harmed in any landscaping operation, wether the end product is meat or plant.

          All you can do by changing your diet from meat to plant is a gradual change. You kill less and do less harm, which is great. But you still kill and do harm, that’s just how these things are.

          Maybe a kill-free diet is possible with food synthesized in sterile labs, but the resources for that also have to come from somewhere.

            • Spzi@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              1 year ago

              I know, and that’s a great reason for a plant based diet.

              But read again to what I replied:

              I’m killing half as many creatures for my transient pleasure as I was last year.

              Oh, why not just stop murdering entirely?

              There seems to exist the delusion of kill-free agriculture, when the best we can achieve is to kill less.

              • Vegoon@feddit.de
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                We know that we have a Impact on others but shouldn’t the goal be to keep it a minimum?

                Animal industry is the intentional killing and abusing of animals. Animal feed is the biggest part of crops grown, for those crops all kind of animals are killed on a big scale. Veganism is about reducing the impact, stopping the intentional killing and reducing the unavoidable impact as much as possible. There is no delusion of a “zero impact vegan” it is just a construct for people who want to justify not changing them self.

                • Spzi@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  We know that we have a Impact on others but shouldn’t the goal be to keep it a minimum?

                  Yes, completely agreed.

                  There is no delusion of a “zero impact vegan”

                  Maybe I misunderstood the person I was initially responding to, but I understood them as exactly that, when they said what I already quoted two times.

                  It’s also not the first time I encountered this attitude. Maybe they don’t actually believe what they say, but then my critique is directed at the wording. There is no zero kill diet (although plant based diets are clearly much less harmful than other diets).

                  Occasionally, some vegans bring up this idea and react very sensitive when confronted with how it’s false. Maybe that defensiveness is fueled by cognitive dissonance which we mostly know from the other side.

      • FermatsLastAccount@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 year ago

        Vegans don’t eat animals for the sake of the animals, because they believe killing them unnecessarily is morally wrong.

        Saying you’re only going to eat animals once a day is like saying you’re going to halve the amount of violent crimes you commit and expecting praise for it.

        • Spzi@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          1 year ago

          It depends on wether you’re actually concerned about the animals, or about yourself.

          If you’re concerned about the animals, 100 people reducing by 10% is exactly as good as 10 people reducing by 100%. The difference is, 10 people don’t have to feel guilty. But no animal benefits from that.

          • FermatsLastAccount@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Those 100 people would still be eating 90% as many animals as they were before. People don’t need to eat animals to live, so expecting praise for eating 10% less is pretty funny.

            It’d be like a criminal deciding to decrease the amount of crimes he commits by 10% and expecting people to encourage and praise him.

  • BeeOneTwoThree@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    People can’t think critically over why they prefer meat over vegetables. They just think they do it because hurr durr meat tastes better or you need protines.

    If they actually think about the fact that they have been eating meat for every meal since they were a child they might understand that it is just a habit they have formed.

    I strongly suggest to those people to try to have 1 dinner a week without meat or fish. It has nothing todo about taste and all about habits and what you are used to.

    Try to challenge yourself a little bit and you might get a better perspective over these things.

    • ragepaw@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      2 days ago

      Saying someone is “hurr durr meat tastes better” is wrong is so dismissive of other people and completely insufferable.

      I agree, people should eat less meat. We often have meals in my house that don’t feature meat. But guess what, I think meat tastes better.

      The best way to alienate people and turn them against your point of view is to be an insufferable twat.