• greenskye@lemmy.zip
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    1 day ago

    What’s the opinion on certain high risk countries where there’s a high likelihood of the artifacts simply being destroyed? If I remember correctly ISIS and other similar organizations have burned or bombed several historical sites before.

    • But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      The only opinion that should matter is that of the people the artifacts belong to.

      “It’s safer with us” is an excuse that’s been abused by colonizers and raiders for too long.

      • merc@sh.itjust.works
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        22 hours ago

        The only opinion that should matter is that of the people the artifacts belong to.

        Which people? The government? So in Afghanistan it’s up to the Taliban? If you don’t trust that the government of a country represents the will of the people, then how do you determine what the people want?

        And, again, which people? Is a totem pole in a museum in Canada the property of the Canadian people? Or is it something that belongs to the Haida people, and it doesn’t matter what other Canadians want? If it is up to the Haida, it is up to the Council of the Haida Nation, or is it up to the band the original artist belonged to?

        What about a Tatar artifact found in Donetsk? Who gets control over that? Is it the Russians since they occupy Donetsk? The Ukrainians because they used to occupy it? Do you have to study the blood of various Ukrainian people to figure out who has the most surviving Tatar DNA?

        • 0x0@lemmy.zip
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          18 hours ago

          If you don’t trust that the government of a country represents the will of the people, then how do you determine what the people want?

          You mean most governments?

      • greenskye@lemmy.zip
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        1 day ago

        What if some of the locals want it taken away for protection, but the government wants it destroyed?

        There’s no clear ‘owner’ in many cases. I think it places where it’s uncertain, then we should prioritize saving the artifacts over the ones that seek to destroy them.

        • pugnaciousfarter
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          23 hours ago

          You will never be able to get everyone to agree on anything and you can’t hold a referendum for every artifact.

          So as far as responsibility goes, barring edge cases, it should be left upto the government to decide, as they represent the people.

          And tbh, this feels like an argument made in bad faith, because this is such a rare case. No government is going to ask for an artifact back and then destroy it. What happened in afganistan and Syria was a tragedy (they didn’t ask for those artifacts back, they were already there) But that only happened because the previous governments had been destabilized by Russian and American influences. (Iraq war - Isis, Afganistan war - alqaeda)

          There’s no clear ‘owner’ in many cases.

          Just return it to the country where it was taken from. And I don’t think there are many cases where ownership is vague, most are pretty plain and clear.

          then we should prioritize saving the artifacts over the ones that seek to destroy them.

          That’s not on you, that’s on their original keepers. Otherwise you are propagating colonial era crimes and justifying them by arguing in bad faith.

          P.s.

          • Museums have a notorious record when it comes to maintaining artifacts (they aren’t shining beacons of humanity), especially the British museum.
          • They also do less than what’s needed to discourage artifact smuggling.
          • watch: https://youtu.be/eJPLiT1kCSM
      • KittyCat@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        In many cases there is no owner, they’re from a completely separate culture that happened to occupy the same region in the past.

    • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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      1 day ago

      Museums should participate in cultural exchange, if a museum feels under threat then they have channels they can trust to protect their artifacts until they can be returned

    • Kühlschrank@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      We have to be extremely wary of people who cite that because it’s so easily used as a justification for artifact theft and can have deep roots in racism.

      • nexguy@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        That’s the question. Where is the line between racism and artifact protection?

        • lath@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          Presumably somewhere between racism and artifact protection.