What encrypted messenger do you use most that isn’t Zucking Meta’s Whatsapp and Signal?
Edit Also, besides iMessage and RCS. Sorry thanks
SimpleX
matrix. it’s not perfect, but it’s the least shit option i’ve found so far. in the poorly paraphrased words of bjarne stroustrup, “there are only two kinds of chat protocols: the ones people complain about, and the ones nobody uses”
What do I use the most or what do people use the most? I use Matrix the most as most of my friends are on it (+ have it bridged with some chats that aren’t on Matrix). Then after that SimpleX. I don’t know what the most popular encrypted messengers among the general population, except for the ones you listed, are.
Matrix/Element :)
I may not know much about software development & programming itself however, I feel like I did my part here.
+1 for Linux folks.
Awesome! Thank you for that!
This! With bridges you can even have all your chats from different chat networks in one app.
Exactly! Thats my next step :)
Matrix, Briar, SimpleX, Threema
I wish I could use Matrix on my phone without it eating my battery 🫤
This is the way.
Out of curiosity, what’s wrong with signal?
- Requires a phone number
- Depends on Big Tech’s servers
- Got founded by the US government
- Seems to absolutely love Big Tech because they hide the APK download page quite well[1]
- It’s centralized
I use my own Snikket server to communicate with people using OMEMO (Signal Protocol). No phone number requirements, no centralized server, no Big Tech, just you and the people you write with, with your privacy fully intact. Just like in the good old days (as it should be to this days, greedy f*****s).
[1]: signal.org/download > Android redirects you to Google Play Store. signal.org/download/android > Download for Android redirects you to Google Play Store. signal.org/install redirects you to Google Play Store. You’ll search “forever” to find the “download APK file” link until you give up and using a search engine: “signal apk”.
Not until then you’ll find signal.org/android/apk. And when you visit that page, a link to Google Play Store is listed on top, and below it, in the “danger zone”, you’ll find the APK download button. Yes, exactly, the Signal team wants you to be on the “safe zone” by downloading the app through Google Play Store.
“focus on privacy” my ass. Close to forcing someone to use Big Tech shitty stuff is NOT focus on privacy.
Sorry, rant is over. Now breakfast time.
Thanks for the info! All good points. I’ll keep snikket bookmarked for when I’m more competent in my server/self-hosting abilities and revisit how I chat.
What is the difference with xmmp , conversations , prosody?
XMPP is the universal standard when it comes to chat servers. WhatsApp is using it, just to name 1 example.
Conversations is a client for XMPP servers.
And to add to all of that the user experience is bad.
how’s the chat history with snikket? I had issues with prosody, namely multiple devices coming and going and maintaining the same chat history between all of them, as well when there’s a disconnect (device gone forever, new device connects)
just skimmed their confusing web site, it’s free for selfhosting, right?
The chat history is there until you change client/device and got a new set of keys. New encryption keys can’t decrypt messages and files sent with a previous keys.
Snikket is FOSS, so yes, it’s free when self-hosting :)
sorry for reiterating, so cross-device sync is totally impossible? or just something you don’t use?
If you login to your account on your Snikket server on all the devices you have at home, and you remain logged in for all the time you use your Snikket server, everything will be synced over all these devices.
Let me explain it further. You login to your Snikket server on 3 devices (desktop, laptop, and smartphone) and you use only these 3 with no re-installing the operating system and not factory resetting the smartphone, you will keep getting the history on these 3 devices - synced.
But you decide to try out a new XMPP client, let say monocles chat. Since that client is new for your account, that client will get its own encryption key. Because of this, monocles chat can not read anything you and the contacts you have communicated with. This also applies when you re-installing the OS or do a factory reset.
End-to-end encryption 101.
Let say this would not be the case and monocles chat do see the history of all of your chats, that data must remain on the server and can be decrypted by the new client with maybe a master encryption key of some sort. This is not end-to-end encryption 101. That would be a security breach.
However, letting you export the chat history from the other clients and importing the chat history to monocles chat, that would be much better. Because then it is you who decides if you want to keep the chat history or not. You will be in control over your own data. This is a feature I miss in XMPP clients.
appreciate the effort, but kinda went overboard with the deets :) I run several prosody XMPP servers so I’m familiar with the underlying tech. what you describe should be feasible with it as well, but there are constant issues with devices not being able to access history, so I was wondering if things were better on your end.
so, based on this, I’ll spin up a snikker docker and try it out for a coupla weeks, see what’s what. many thanks.
edit: turns out this snikket thing is conversations (standard XMPP client) and prosody (XMPP server) with different branding.
For example, some people don’t like that it’s centralized. It’s not like e-mail, where you can register with any provider and then cross-communicate. Moxie wrote more about this here
Understood. Thank you. It’d been some time since I’ve scrutinized Signal. It was a set-it and forget-it type situation.
aside from the dogshit UX and the uber reliance on Evilcorp’s infra, having more than two devices (I know, shocker in this day and age!), the arduous migration process to a new device, the limited chat history (I think it’s 40ish days) and many more.
same way Telegram adamantly refuses to implement E2EE, and not only that, it actively prevents 3rd party devs (a number of clients are FOSS) from implementing it on their own.
both PJ Harvey and durov respond the same way when asked about any of them things - smokescreens, FUD, whataboutisms, etc.
any of them things woulda been acceptable in 2015, here’s a PoC looking for funding, limited devs and resources; remember TextSecure and RedPhone? nowadays, they are nothing short of malicious.
XMPP with OMEMO?
I can’t even get my social circle to switch from WhatsApp to Signal, let alone anything else. I use Conversations, a feature rich XMPP client for select stuff.
I essentially did this with Facebook. People still fucking contact me on Messenger.
while i agree, i figure most people would be really annoyed with this
Good, they can delete WhatsApp to fix that. What is your solution and how many times has it actually worked?
no, they can’t, thats not how this works. we haven’t solved this.
So, try this.
i don’t really want people pulling this type of stuff on me, and i don’t feel like doing it to others. i don’t feel like its a solution either.
You’re not looking for a solution.
I have tried them all, I just use XMPP through Cheogram (mobile) and Movim (desktop in browser) now. I have had success getting my contacts to switch since I never bugged them about any other messengers before. Plus I am willing to follow through with ultimatums of abandonment and they are well aware of that.
If you have any actually normal friends (no offense) you’re going to have to use the regular phone network. XMPP has the best phone network gateway, I’ve bought like five Soprani.ca numbers. No it doesn’t encrypt the regular phone network.
Delta/Arcane Chat is cool but due to everyone basically being an admin-level user in the chat, I strictly use it as a home base for real homies. I mainly use it to run one gajillion bots, check my emails, run Mastodon/Misskey fork accounts in one location, and send stuff/WebXDC apps to myself.
You can’t seriously replace the social media monopolies or the phone network yet. I even run some Telegrams (don’t make fun of me) and control them with the Delta Chat bot. People just need to get used to “backing up” their social graph with secure options, and not just saying whatever pops into their head outside them
Wrong, WhatsApp and iMessage fail to include a libre software license text file. We do not control them, anti-libre software. They ban us from fixing backdoors. Stop repeating their scam.
??? What does that have to do with what OP asked
Encrypted? Not for us, when we do not control it.
OP never claimed the encryption of WA and iMessage “work for us”. They just said they were encrypted. That’s a neutral statement.
They think OP gonna spell it all out, like we got no brain.
what do you mean by “spell”? what do you mean by “brain”?
You should know what a brain is used for.
Me? XMPP.
Most used? Depends in what circles. Telegram is popular in some. SimpleX and Session in others. XMPP in free software circles. Matrix in others.
Telegram should not be considered an encrypted solution, due to the opt-in nature of their encryption. The owner regularly collaborates with law enforcement, as well.
Matrix is the only one I actually use other than the rest.
There is also XMPP, SimpleX, Threema, Briar, cwtch, Tox, and Delta Chat.
Besides your list? Matrix via element or elementX. I’ve been test driving arcane chat, which is decent enough, but too new to be widely used enough to really say much.
Wire.
