Okay, so smiling is bad. What the fuck is the solution to not look suspicious to cops at this point? Making eye contact is suspicious, but not making eye contact is also suspicious. So what, are we supposed to Sneak 100 past them when we see them from afar now? Is that it?
At which point does a society realizes that maybe we have an issue when people are actively trying to avoid cops even though they are not doing anything that is against the laws? How many people need to be detained over nothing? How many people need to be brutalized with no consequences to their blue aggressors? How many people need to be killed by the “finest”?
I treat cops like a rogue militia. I avoid them when I can, and otherwise, I feel the need to watch my every step because they are completely unpredictable. And for fuck’s sake, I’m white! Needless to say, cops are much less on the lookout for me. When I hear the stories of people from different ethnicities, it’s fucking terrifying.
Okay, so smiling is bad. What the fuck is the solution to not look suspicious to cops at this point?
There’s an episode from the Twilight Zone reboot (S1E3, “Replay”) that plays with this idea in an interesting way. A black mother and son are at a diner with a police officer, and things happen and her son gets shot. But then she discovers that she has this magic camcorder that can rewind time, so she goes back to the diner and tries again, doing things differently. And this time he gets shot for a different reason. So she goes back, again and again, trying different approaches.
It really captures the feeling of insecurity, of being damned if you do, damned if you don’t. And it’s sort of a metaphor for the different scenarios playing out in one’s head, of trying to think of how each action might be misinterpreted or go wrong.
The police, as an institution, should be abolished.
And a new institution put it its place.
And, off the top of my head, just a few things it should do differently is in no particular order
Citizen Oversight boards made up of 7 educated citizens (with no professional or familiar connection to law enforcement), chosen at random, to serve 3 month tours, with 3 local lawyers, also selected at random, and in good standing, to advise on the legal side of things but with no vote themselves. (Cause sometimes just cause its not technically illegal doesnt mean its not horrific and awful and deserving of punishment/reprimand)
national black list, so cops that do bad cant just jump ship to the next jurisdiction over.
Liability insurance, that is paid for by the replacement organization, out of their wages, with no payout caps (because fuck being permanently crippled due to abuse and only getting 30k)
No qualified immunity.
must live in the communities they serve.
no training them to think or behave like their the last surviving member of a super elite commando unit behind enemy lines, and that everyone is their potential enemy.
training must take longer than it takes to become a beautician, including extensive learning of not just what the laws are, but what is expected of them as a servant of the public, behavior and atittude wise.
regular refresher courses, at least 3 months long, every 2 years, to maintain, update, and verify their knowledge of the law and the duty they choose to take up, failing this course is a firable offense.
Then put all the money you save from all of this, and put into social needs and improvements… Which will reduce crime more than putting a bunch of paramilitary wannabe pretenders on the street.
edit
Oh, and one last one… mandatory +20 years to any conviction, for betrayal of the public good and public trust.
I’m with you on immediate abolition of police and dismantling the carceral system, but “figure something else out” sounds very hand-wave-y. Community initiatives, economic reform, and vastly improved and accessible mental health resources will go a long way towards drastically reducing crime, maybe even eliminating many forms of it, but there does need to be some form of framework for investigation and redressal of the rare crimes that do occur
That’s because you are most likely miscommunicating what you mean. When you say “abolish the police” I presume you mean “the current policing institution does not justly enforce law, ensure safety, or act in support public interest and therefore needs to be replaced with an institution that conducts policing justly and accountable”
What people hear is that you’re saying “policing as a concept is wrong and we should not have any institution that enforces democratic law or acts to secure public safety in accordance to a justice system”… Because that’s what the word “abolish” means, to formally and permanently put an end to something. Like “abolish slavery” because slavery is wrong.
Ah I see. I mean sure, that’s fine to consider and think through. Although, there doesn’t seem to be much meaningful difference between “replace it” and “figure something else out”.
But if the plan is to dismantle everything and wing it, I’m glad they volunteered their community to “figure something else out”. Im sure we can learn something from it. However, I suspect they will eventually circle back to having some system of law, some system to judge adherence to that law, and some system to enforce adherence to that law.
Still, I think there’s nobility in willing to sacrifice one’s own security (if not others’, which certainly is already the case in the current system) for the sake of those experiencing injustice/oppression. But there are also prudent and foolish ways to go about it.
In Canada we’re actually grappling with this tension leaning the other way, ensuring justice for those being processed through the justice system. Our bail system ensures people are not unjustly held for prolonged periods of time pre-trial, but the consequence is you have more cases of violent people readily released on bail who then attack someone else not long after. This is exacerbated by an inefficient system where trial dates take so long you’d have to hold someone presumed innocent for months or over a year, as well as an insufficient system without enough support and rehabilitation that helps minimize recitivism.
Okay, so smiling is bad. What the fuck is the solution to not look suspicious to cops at this point? Making eye contact is suspicious, but not making eye contact is also suspicious. So what, are we supposed to
Sneak 100past them when we see them from afar now? Is that it?At which point does a society realizes that maybe we have an issue when people are actively trying to avoid cops even though they are not doing anything that is against the laws? How many people need to be detained over nothing? How many people need to be brutalized with no consequences to their blue aggressors? How many people need to be killed by the “finest”?
I treat cops like a rogue militia. I avoid them when I can, and otherwise, I feel the need to watch my every step because they are completely unpredictable. And for fuck’s sake, I’m white! Needless to say, cops are much less on the lookout for me. When I hear the stories of people from different ethnicities, it’s fucking terrifying.
But hey, gotta protect the rich somehow, I guess.
There’s an episode from the Twilight Zone reboot (S1E3, “Replay”) that plays with this idea in an interesting way. A black mother and son are at a diner with a police officer, and things happen and her son gets shot. But then she discovers that she has this magic camcorder that can rewind time, so she goes back to the diner and tries again, doing things differently. And this time he gets shot for a different reason. So she goes back, again and again, trying different approaches.
It really captures the feeling of insecurity, of being damned if you do, damned if you don’t. And it’s sort of a metaphor for the different scenarios playing out in one’s head, of trying to think of how each action might be misinterpreted or go wrong.
Pick up that can
Ep3 wen
Urgh… yes
honeyofficer…As it turns out, avoiding the cops – or even looking like you’re avoiding the cops – will also land you in hot water
Okay, so do not exist at all in the presence of cops. Somehow. Got it.
If they kill you, technically you don’t exist anymore.
Honestly, how fragile and weak you have to be to be triggered by being looked at. If they are that scared, they should remove their eyeballs.
Oops there’s cops everywhere, guess the winning play is to not exist in the first place
People scream at me when I say “abolish the police”. Even radical progressives. To me the solution is obvious but nobody wants to listen.
I agree with you.
The police, as an institution, should be abolished.
And a new institution put it its place.
And, off the top of my head, just a few things it should do differently is in no particular order
Citizen Oversight boards made up of 7 educated citizens (with no professional or familiar connection to law enforcement), chosen at random, to serve 3 month tours, with 3 local lawyers, also selected at random, and in good standing, to advise on the legal side of things but with no vote themselves. (Cause sometimes just cause its not technically illegal doesnt mean its not horrific and awful and deserving of punishment/reprimand)
national black list, so cops that do bad cant just jump ship to the next jurisdiction over.
Liability insurance, that is paid for by the replacement organization, out of their wages, with no payout caps (because fuck being permanently crippled due to abuse and only getting 30k)
No qualified immunity.
must live in the communities they serve.
no training them to think or behave like their the last surviving member of a super elite commando unit behind enemy lines, and that everyone is their potential enemy.
training must take longer than it takes to become a beautician, including extensive learning of not just what the laws are, but what is expected of them as a servant of the public, behavior and atittude wise.
regular refresher courses, at least 3 months long, every 2 years, to maintain, update, and verify their knowledge of the law and the duty they choose to take up, failing this course is a firable offense.
Then put all the money you save from all of this, and put into social needs and improvements… Which will reduce crime more than putting a bunch of paramilitary wannabe pretenders on the street.
edit
Oh, and one last one… mandatory +20 years to any conviction, for betrayal of the public good and public trust.
Abolish the police, today. Empty the prisons. Replacing them with something else just continues the problem in a new way.
Does crime suddenly become an issue? Then figure something else out.
The current system doesn’t work, so end it. A single day’s delay means innocent people suffering and dying, so end it today.
I’m with you on immediate abolition of police and dismantling the carceral system, but “figure something else out” sounds very hand-wave-y. Community initiatives, economic reform, and vastly improved and accessible mental health resources will go a long way towards drastically reducing crime, maybe even eliminating many forms of it, but there does need to be some form of framework for investigation and redressal of the rare crimes that do occur
Theres that pesky lede you buried while crying about disagreement.
That’s because you are most likely miscommunicating what you mean. When you say “abolish the police” I presume you mean “the current policing institution does not justly enforce law, ensure safety, or act in support public interest and therefore needs to be replaced with an institution that conducts policing justly and accountable”
What people hear is that you’re saying “policing as a concept is wrong and we should not have any institution that enforces democratic law or acts to secure public safety in accordance to a justice system”… Because that’s what the word “abolish” means, to formally and permanently put an end to something. Like “abolish slavery” because slavery is wrong.
Nope.
Okay, if it’s not either of those, what do you actually mean then?
He wants to get rid of police now, and empty all the prisons now. and have no replacements. typical buried lede
Ah I see. I mean sure, that’s fine to consider and think through. Although, there doesn’t seem to be much meaningful difference between “replace it” and “figure something else out”.
But if the plan is to dismantle everything and wing it, I’m glad they volunteered their community to “figure something else out”. Im sure we can learn something from it. However, I suspect they will eventually circle back to having some system of law, some system to judge adherence to that law, and some system to enforce adherence to that law.
Still, I think there’s nobility in willing to sacrifice one’s own security (if not others’, which certainly is already the case in the current system) for the sake of those experiencing injustice/oppression. But there are also prudent and foolish ways to go about it.
In Canada we’re actually grappling with this tension leaning the other way, ensuring justice for those being processed through the justice system. Our bail system ensures people are not unjustly held for prolonged periods of time pre-trial, but the consequence is you have more cases of violent people readily released on bail who then attack someone else not long after. This is exacerbated by an inefficient system where trial dates take so long you’d have to hold someone presumed innocent for months or over a year, as well as an insufficient system without enough support and rehabilitation that helps minimize recitivism.