Trains would definitely be a great choice. But in a lot of places in the midwestern US, the economic realities of fixed transit infrastructure are tricky.
Not impossible. I’m definitely not saying that. But they’d require more regulatory steps than a robust bus network, for instance.
Yeah, I know. But the last two were accomplished largely by fiat. Which should be impossible in the US, though…you know.
And the pre-WW2 US had the advantage of essentially being pre-suburbs. Now sprawl means that the cost of adequate rail connections increases exponentially while the tax base increases linearly.
Again, like I said before, this is not impossible. But it will require a concerted effort to reverse a century’s worth of underinvestment in urban areas, white flight, and stigmatization of multi-family living; and right now, we’re doing the opposite of all of those things.
No, of course they don’t stay the same. I’m not asserting that at all. In fact, that’s a big problem in a lot of places with huge road networks and proportionally too-small tax bases. But they’re already there, and upkeep is cheaper than building new.
Plus im guessing that rail cost includes power delivery infra and actual engines/cars.
Power delivery, maybe. Engines and cars, probably not (at least not meaningfully), since the numbers I’m seeing are for extensions to existing lines. But we don’t need to worry about adding gas station costs or the costs of car ownership to that, because those are privately-owned (and thus privately-borne costs).
We’re not talking about societal cost here. We’re talking about why localities don’t do this. And the answer is, because it’s expensive: the upfront cost for a massive public works project that won’t be finished until after the current office-holders are no longer in public service would be at or above a billion dollars.
Added bonus: private ownership of some portion of transportation costs means that the localities can offload a good chunk of the cost to the people in a way that makes them feel like they have “freedum!”
Trains would definitely be a great choice. But in a lot of places in the midwestern US, the economic realities of fixed transit infrastructure are tricky.
Not impossible. I’m definitely not saying that. But they’d require more regulatory steps than a robust bus network, for instance.
Tell that to the pre world war two united states, porphyriato era mexico, and literally siberia.
I’m so glad roads are flexible and free.
Yeah, I know. But the last two were accomplished largely by fiat. Which should be impossible in the US, though…you know.
And the pre-WW2 US had the advantage of essentially being pre-suburbs. Now sprawl means that the cost of adequate rail connections increases exponentially while the tax base increases linearly.
Again, like I said before, this is not impossible. But it will require a concerted effort to reverse a century’s worth of underinvestment in urban areas, white flight, and stigmatization of multi-family living; and right now, we’re doing the opposite of all of those things.
Im glad the cost of car capable roads and their maintenance, plus fuel and vehicle subdidies, stays the same no matter what. That’s so lucky.
No, of course they don’t stay the same. I’m not asserting that at all. In fact, that’s a big problem in a lot of places with huge road networks and proportionally too-small tax bases. But they’re already there, and upkeep is cheaper than building new.
Is it?
The state of Michigan expects to spend $24,093 per lane-mile to maintain their roads. By contrast, the cheapest light rail line in the world costs $150 million per mile to build. Assuming that new rail line lasts for 6,000 years and never needs a single cent of maintenance, it might just barely break even with the financial cost of maintaining an existing road.
But induced demand means the cost of more road is part of the road.
Plus im guessing that rail cost includes power delivery infra and actual engines/cars.
So add the cost of every gas station to that number. Add the cost of the cars and their maintenance, or some dubiously calculated fraction thereof.
Add the maintenance cost of driveways and garages. Of parking lots. Of parking structures.
Induced demand is a good point, but the cost of building new lane-miles of road is “only” about $5 million per mile. (In Florida; I can’t find exact numbers for Michigan, but the variance is unlikely to be dramatic.)
Power delivery, maybe. Engines and cars, probably not (at least not meaningfully), since the numbers I’m seeing are for extensions to existing lines. But we don’t need to worry about adding gas station costs or the costs of car ownership to that, because those are privately-owned (and thus privately-borne costs).
We’re not talking about societal cost here. We’re talking about why localities don’t do this. And the answer is, because it’s expensive: the upfront cost for a massive public works project that won’t be finished until after the current office-holders are no longer in public service would be at or above a billion dollars.
Added bonus: private ownership of some portion of transportation costs means that the localities can offload a good chunk of the cost to the people in a way that makes them feel like they have “freedum!”