Blah blah ecofascist doomerism. We can live harmonically with nature and have for most of our history. Our current consumerist society isn’t compatible with sustainable and responsible practices but that isn’t a forgone conclusion or intrinsic to human behavior. That’s not to say that we aren’t on a bad path, we absolutely are and a great many organisms are going extinct because of us, but ascribing a moral value to our very existence is the wrong move.
Not true.
Humans always reproduced to the absolute limit (set by their agricultural technology and the bodies of women). The reason why this didn’t wreck the environment is because that limited population was too small to turn 50% of land into farmland, they didn’t know how to burn large amounts of coal and they didn’t have the technology to produce harmful chemicals.
But i agree that humanity (or any other species) has no value. Saying humanity has value is like saying the white race has value. It’s pure aestethics, it’s not worth it to make anyone suffer for that.
My understanding is that this is not true. The big factor seems to be infant mortality, as that drops so does the average number of children per breeding pair.
Women’s mortality was also not the problem. The probability to die in child birth was '‘only’ 0.5%
But if we dig deeper, we find that only 10% of children made it to their 20s, and the reason for that was famine and disease.
So those that kept the population growing lived under conditions where the reason why their children died was because they could not feed them or keep them healthy. And if we take the 0.5% of maternal mortality, and apply it to those responsible for the population growth (those that made it into their 20s), we get a rough estimate of 50% effective maternal mortality. So it was the agricultural technology in combination with war, disease and child birth that kept the population low.
And that’s what i meant: They lived in a situation where 80-90% of their friends had died of famine, disease and war, and under these horrific conditions they still produced 4.5 to 7.5 children per woman, which kept the population growing (slowly). As soon as that limitation was lifted, the population shot up.
Personally, i don’t see any planning in that. They just had as many children as they could before they died, not worrying about how they would feed them.
Blah blah ecofascist doomerism. We can live harmonically with nature and have for most of our history. Our current consumerist society isn’t compatible with sustainable and responsible practices but that isn’t a forgone conclusion or intrinsic to human behavior. That’s not to say that we aren’t on a bad path, we absolutely are and a great many organisms are going extinct because of us, but ascribing a moral value to our very existence is the wrong move.
Not true. Humans always reproduced to the absolute limit (set by their agricultural technology and the bodies of women). The reason why this didn’t wreck the environment is because that limited population was too small to turn 50% of land into farmland, they didn’t know how to burn large amounts of coal and they didn’t have the technology to produce harmful chemicals.
But i agree that humanity (or any other species) has no value. Saying humanity has value is like saying the white race has value. It’s pure aestethics, it’s not worth it to make anyone suffer for that.
My understanding is that this is not true. The big factor seems to be infant mortality, as that drops so does the average number of children per breeding pair.
Turns out you are right. At least on the surface.
But if we dig deeper, we find that only 10% of children made it to their 20s, and the reason for that was famine and disease.
So those that kept the population growing lived under conditions where the reason why their children died was because they could not feed them or keep them healthy. And if we take the 0.5% of maternal mortality, and apply it to those responsible for the population growth (those that made it into their 20s), we get a rough estimate of 50% effective maternal mortality. So it was the agricultural technology in combination with war, disease and child birth that kept the population low.
And that’s what i meant: They lived in a situation where 80-90% of their friends had died of famine, disease and war, and under these horrific conditions they still produced 4.5 to 7.5 children per woman, which kept the population growing (slowly). As soon as that limitation was lifted, the population shot up.
Personally, i don’t see any planning in that. They just had as many children as they could before they died, not worrying about how they would feed them.