Tariffs are not a new concept and have been used historically to build economies. Top China analysts in the Obama administration credited its economic rise to protective tariffs and high barriers to entry for any foreign companies to sell in country.
I’m probably a bit older than most lemmy users and remember when tariffs were a major talking point for democrats as a positive thing to protect American jobs. Hell, growing up in the Midwest, all my dad and his buddies that worked union jobs had to vote democrat because of their aggressive tariff policy to protect their jobs.
So what if trump is right about tariffs and it reinvigorates the American economy? Will people find another reason to credit the success to? Will it be the end of blue collar voting for the democrats?
Edit: Markets are rebounding hard, I bought low, glad Lemmy is full of pseudo intellectual economic morons. How is Lemmy going to cope now?
We’ll never know
Tariffs will be super hard on american economy. There is no universe where current tariffs and migration policy wont mean stagflation from hell. But that’s a price that might be worth/necessary paying. However, if american blue collar are able to organize, there is a possibility that blue collar salaries will keep up with inflation and that implies economic power is transferred to the working clas (supply and demand will be on the side of blue collar at least). Transfer of economic (and political) power is very much needed if the US democracy shall survive (or return from the dead).
But it’s all a big gamble for sure. Chaos and feudalism/fascism is probably the most likely outcome. Everything is so complex that it’s impossible to know for sure. Hopefully evolution has empowered us with enough accurate intuitions.
And the last time they have been used by the US in 1930, they ruined the economy.
How in depth would you like to understand the level to which across the board tariffs from the united states are going to fuck not just the united states economy but the global economy? Education at this level is not free.
That would certainly be quite surprising. The expression of Trump being right is flexible enough to be interpreted in various ways.
The only plausible way would be if he achieves some largely meaningless concessions and the media spins it as a win. But if the American electorate gets the idea that the US can get free stuff by throwing a fit, then any agreement is not worth the paper it is written on.
Well, I guess that’s the answer. If Trump achieves anything positive with this, then the reaction with be self-destructive.
Do you have any particular scenario in mind that ends with Trump being vindicated?
Brother you should take a step back from politics if this is the depth of analysis you’re capable of.
Most people who aren’t right-wing nut jobs know how to admit when they’re wrong about something and how to be happy for something that actually is a positive for the majority of people who aren’t already rich, regardless of how that result was achieved.
Tariffs are normal, they encourage a strong local economy that doesn’t get screwed over by a dominant economy that decides to use the trade relationship against the local economy, but they haven’t been “aggressive” since the last time they were used as an act of war and ended up causing a depression.
Tariffs are normal, they encourage a strong local economy that doesn’t get screwed over by a dominant economy that decides to use the trade relationship against the local economy
But America was that dominant economy, right up until the tarrifs were imposed. Now it’s more like we’re brexiting ourselves.
Right? Like I’d LOVE to be proven wrong and for this to actually help our economy and the middle class. It’s just that I’m realistic and can see that this is much more likely to lead us to a recession instead
Ignoring whether he is or not, as that is a DEEP dive into world economics, the response would have some variance, because nothing is monolithic, but I expect the prominent responses would be for supporters to cheer and gloat, for the independents to cheer and hope, with timing deciding the midterms, and for the opposition to drop it and focus on all the other problems with Trump.
I feel like that’s going to be the response. When stocks were dropping “THIS IS BECAUSE OF TRUMPS TARIFFS!!!” And now that they are going back up they will say “Well…. There are a lot of factors that go into global economics and it’s not a monolith”
Saying ‘the response’ is kind of pretending it’s a monolith. There will be a lot of carefully considered discussion, regardless of what the result is, because that’s what adult humans do. Then there will be the great lumps of BS that are projected by party mouthpieces and parroted by the party followers. I’m less interested in the social media chatter as a response and more interested in the response from the other countries.
China’s choice to place export restrictions on things like Yttrium and other rare earth metals, when they control ~3/4ths of the world’s supply, could put companies around the world out of business or under Chinese soft power. Some of America’s biggest blue chip companies are reliant on those materials. China is not going to make it easy if even possible to get those elements for US companies. Companies in Europe and Asia could also be targetted with it as an implementation of Chinese soft power.
Another issue to consider is the recovery itself. The market always craps its pants when Trump speaks because the thing the market loves is predictability and Trump is unpredictable. It’s hard to say how comfortable the investor class will be with taking risks on new investments when one announcement from the oval office can drop share prices to a new 52 week low.
Facing all this, it’s hard to care much about the chatter from party loyalists.
deleted by creator
This thread is an example why Lemmy wont succeed as the new reigning image board.
Yeah you definately sound a lot older than most lemmy users, what are you doing lurking here creep. Don’t you have a bingo game to attend or something
I believe the tarrifs are good. Though for other reasons than Trump. The current (previous) situation is super unstable and unsustainable. It basically require a global US monopoly of violence (which was the case for about 30 years). Trade imbalance implies war (as stated by Keynes).
However, the arguments of the Trump administration are completely false and uneducated.
We’ve all been drenched in neoliberal propaganda for about 50 years (disguised as science), so it’s not weird people are unable to think outside of the box on this matter.
Also, super valid question. Don’t get the down votes.
How did you make it through life with such a blatent lack of critical thinking skills? Your comment history is full of these dumbass takes. I mean my God man. You sound like a fucking cartoon character. Neoliberal propoganda disguised as science? What the actual fuck does that even mean? Take off your tin foil hat and take a walk man. Clear your head. Jesus christ. What has happened to our world where no one believes in science? It’s fucking science man. Not everything is a political conspiracy. Not everything revolves around a political agenda. Some things just exist, like science. Reading comments like this make me want to jump off a bridge. It’s hard for me to accept that there are actually people that fucking gullible and stupid. I mean do you just listen to the people screaming the loudest? Do you have no concept of logic or reasonability?
Nothing you said can even be considered a coherent thought. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Take them meds bro.
Do you even believe in meds? Or is that part of the “neoliberal science conspiracy” too?
I believe in meds and I believe in science. Especially the science of complex systems. I don’t believe in political philosophy branded as science. The reproducability metric of social sciences and political economy is so bad that the complete field should move into humanities and philosophy (which isn’t bad, but it isn’t science). Aspiring sciences.
I mean it isn’t a secret that huge amounts of resources has been poured into neoliberal think tanks since the 70s. It’s an ideology which justifies the rich getting richer. Such stuff always get at lot of funding. It’s inherent.
I don’t think I’m the one who’s in lack of critical thinking here Mr 420.
He is not.
A tariff is a tax that increases the price of imported goods.
Tariffs are used to push people toward domestic alternatives to imported goods.
However, today, there are no domestic alternatives to most important goods.
So, all it’s doing is increasing the burden on the average person.
Companies are not going to invest in domestic production. They are going to spend that money lobbying to have tarriffs removed. Because guess what? Once tariffs go away, consumer prices are not going to go back to what they used to be. Instead, megacorps are going to pocket the difference as profit.
companies are not going to invest in domestic production
$1.1 trillion already committed to building in US. Not sure what you are talking about
Source?
Yes, as you said, they aren’t a new concept. We have plenty of evidence, of countries that tried that again and again. We know what he is doing is stupid.
Besides, your theory on tariffs won’t even get to be tested. Kidnapping people at random on the street and sending them to concentration camps has an overwhelmingly larger impact on the economy than the tariffs. People from outside of the US will only focus at this if you start to invade other countries, but at this point, nobody inside the US should be concerned with tariffs, at all.
He isn’t. He can’t be; not the way he has handled them.
Bringing industry and manufacturing back to US soil is actually not a bad idea at all but it’s a problem that needs to be tackled smartly and over a period of time so businesses can react. He is trying to force decades worth of economic migration in the span of a few months. For (hopefully) obvious reasons, that is impossible and the US economy is about to collapse.
And considering Trump, along with Musk at DOGE, have systematically destroyed economic and social safety-net programs… the aftermath of this is going to be catastrophic. The only way Trump is “right” about these tariffs is that they are an intentional sabotage of the US economy so him and his wealthy backers can cash out as the walls come crashing down. That is the goal and it’s going according to plan.
