Summary
Many Democrats, especially women, expressed disillusionment and frustration online, viewing the result as a reflection of deep-seated misogyny in the U.S.
Harris supporters highlighted anger that a “felony convicted, twice-impeached” Trump prevailed over a female candidate.
Comparisons to Hillary Clinton’s 2016 loss resurfaced, with many attributing Trump’s win to targeted appeals to young men, including appearances with influencers like Joe Rogan.
The election outcome has intensified concerns over growing right-wing radicalization among young men.
Not “just hates women” it also hates minorities of all kinds.
People always go with the excuse that coincidentally makes them least responsible, unless they win and then it’s 100% all them.
I don’t think that way, personally.
I think that America is just dumb af. Every stance Republican Voters claim to care about: Trump performs worse on. But they were told he was their guy by Facebook, TikTok, YouTube, Twitter, etc. Money won the race.
I think this is basically it. Americans are stupid, immoral people.
They put a proven rapist, convicted felon, and fascist in the White House after he killed a million Americans with Covid and openly talked about deploying the military on our fellow citizens.
Americans are, without a doubt, some of the shittiest people on the planet.
It’s what decades of intentional suppression of education paired with propaganda will do to people.
Let’s not forget the network of churches fomenting regressive lessons, for decades.
The bar probably does go lower than you think for humanity, but yeah we might be approaching all new lows.
Americans are, without a doubt, some of the shittiest people on the planet.
I don’t know about that. But it might be argued that they are really bad considering they have excellent access to information and still chose the path of least resistance, that being information at appeals to their beliefs.
This guy won the popular vote by a 3% margin. We beat him last time by a 4% margin.
But sure… Let’s pretend everyone in America chose this guy last Tuesday.
You could say the same about the people of any country that’s committed terrible acts. It’s easier sometimes to demonize an entire people - fascists do this famously with great success. Trump won, in no small part, because he did exactly this.
So sure, you can do the same. You can call all Americans shitty. Maybe thats the lesson you can take from all of this: It worked for Trump, so why not you?
I don’t agree with this sort of thing, though. I don’t agree with fascist talking points. I think this sort of thinking leads to unspeakable things.
People are seriously underestimating just how stupid the Trump voter is. Sure, 10% of them are selfish, racist, misogynist, pieces of shit. The rest are too fucking dumb to accurately describe. These morons not only have fully submitted themselves to the propaganda bubble world they choose to remain in, but they are willing to believe, and do believe, multiple contradicting lies at the same time. They lack the most basic level of reasoning that many pets have. For example, they will believe that Biden doesn’t exist and is actually an actor, Obama is controlling Biden as president, Trump is secretly president already, that Biden is manipulating everything against Trump, and that Biden is too senile to do anything. It’s not that they think some of these conspiracies could be true, they believe all of it at the same time. Even my dog knows that the treat being in one hand means it’s not in the other hand. Even my dog can understand we live in one reality. These people are dumber than fucking rocks.
Don’t underestimate misogyny / bro culture in the US. Combine that with machismo in some subcultures and the weird religious beliefs that women should be subservient and at home making babies and we’ll never see a female president at this rate.
The fact that “tradwife” entered the lexicon and is popular on social media tells you basically everything you need to know about how many Americans think of women in this country.
I’m not really underestimating it, it’s clearly there and a very huge problem, but if Harris was the candidate offering to cut taxes for the rich and Trump was the candidate threatening to change half of all US Cars to electric in 10 years, then the outcome would be opposite to what it was.
If that was true then Obama would have lost and Nikki Haley would have been the Republican nominee.
Our socioeconomic situation almost 20 years ago isn’t the same as it is now. The Rich are much richer now than then, the middle class existed in much greater numbers, Russia and China weren’t (as much) actively campaigning on the whole US Population’s social media, and fossil fuel companies weren’t at risk of being phased out.
My dude we don’t have presidents anymore.
Don’t overestimate it, either. Even places where that “machismo” is in the dominant culture have managed to elect women as presidents.
You know what the real difference is? Their woman presidents aren’t useless fucking neoliberals.
Yup. Most of Central and South America have already had female leaders.
Yup. This was my conclusion as well. Elon likely turned the tide of the election, and he barely dipped into his available funds.
All of us struggling to survive, making an honest living… We’re just seen as trash. Trump, Elon, Jeff… They don’t have to call us garbage. They know we’re garbage. They know it every time they both commit, and get away with crimes, and every time they toss money around with barely a thought.
It’s already so bad… The inflation, the debt, the hours. The average American is no longer hopeful that they might achieve prosperity. What happens when Trump raises our taxes, while cutting taxes for the wealthy? What happens when the war on porn and abortion is cranked up? What happens when hundreds of millions of people become desperate, disillusioned, and disenfranchised?
I think Putin knows. I know. You all probably have some idea.
Help the people around you as much as you can, everyone. Don’t let the country descend into chaos. Even when countless Americans hate us for it, we have to help even those people.
You know Canada used to make fun of America as a daily pastime. We stopped doing that and now look where we are.
I just assumed that started as a reactionary movement responding to South Park.
They think right of progressives makes them Republican. When it really just makes them a liberal.
Don’t overgeneralize. Many of us [edit: US citizens] are not that stupid [edit: and didn’t vote for this dumpster fire].
And as one of those I don’t appreciate the random asshole insults.
Edit: Calling an entire country stupid when you can’t parse that this comment was saying that a large chunk of us didn’t vote for Diaper Donnie is very ironic.
You’re going to get a lot of random asshole insults as a Trump Voter on this instance, pal.
I didn’t vote for Trump ffs… Calling the entire country stupid is an insult to millions of people who knew better. Apparently I didn’t make that obvious enough. Yeesh.
Our country is 52.3% absolute morons, I think I was generous.
And that statement is accurate unlike the previous one.
Well 71 million Trump voters over 244 million eligible voters is 29%.
Let’s just say the vast majority of the country are morons
I will absolutely agree with that.
But a lot of people in America are stupid. And it’s only going to get worse as these same people continue to vote their children out of a free public education.
Yep, that’s all true.
Reading comprehension and logic on Lemmy is nearly as bad as Reddit. I left Reddit for a reason and Lemmy is just turning into a communist version of the pseudo intellectual garbage heap that is Reddit .
Honestly, I feel we have a huge disinformation problem. A war really where billionaires, Russia, Iran,and China are on one side and we’re on the other. They treat it like a war while we treat it like a small infestation. So many Republicans I speak with bring up reason why they support trump that are reasonable: Better economy, Protecting children, protecting rights, protecting jobs, reducing crime.in a vacuum, cool candidate. Except that many of the strategies he utilize to accomplish those goals seems illegal or unhelpful. Even worse, who cares if he could and would accomplish those goals, He tried to overthrow the government. Yet all the Republicans I know view that as untrue. Mainly in the form of, “I don’t hear about it much, so it’s either fake news,or not really a coup”
Why? Because they get their news from faux news and social media that have focused on keeping those negative aspects of him buried. And both of those things have huge reach.they are the eyes and ears of these voters, how can they not believe their eyes and ears that tell them that Trump is great?
Until that problem is dealt with, we can’t have an informed population that votes. Instead we will have a large group of uninformed voters. It’s not their fault, they’re just some of the first casualties in this disinformation war.
I saved a comment from u/allmhuran posted to r/news on 2016-06-24:
"Australia has had five prime ministers in five years, the poor yanks look as though they’ll have to choose between two options both of which have more disapproval than approval, and the UK leaves the EU. It seems like a ridiculous amount of instability. One might even call it absurd.
But it’s not surprising.
You can’t feed a society exaggeration, hyperbole and propaganda for over a decade, and then claim surprise when people don’t seem to be making rational decisions on the basis of well established truth.
There’s a cost associated with not telling the truth. There’s a cost associated with polarized, adversarial public discourse. There’s a cost associated with media more concerned with profits than the public interest.
It is, apparently, time to pay the piper."
There’s a cost associated with media more concerned with profits than the public interest.
Media: good thing we’re not the ones paying the price! Continue current heading, profits ho!
I think education is a factor here as well. People collectively seemed to have started just taking any sources word as objective truth with no rationalisation or justification. The fact we now have google forcing ai answers onto people that are factually wrong or unreliable and most just don’t question it is emblematic of the problem. People lack critical thinking now.
Very well stated. We need to operate within this reality instead of the fantasy land created by those who will be fine either way.
And what’s the suggestion here? I’m not getting it.
“So many Republicans I speak with bring up reason why they support trump that are reasonable: Better economy, Protecting children, protecting rights, protecting jobs, reducing crime”
Except Trump has done none of these things. These people are lying to you, and probably to themselves.
That’s the point I’m trying to make(but didn’t do well). Successful Media is telling Trump can, has and will do these things . If they’re told this repeatedly, with no other sane opinions, of course they will believe it. Worse still, they’re also told views to the contrary are completely false and should be disregarded
The worst part is all of those claims can be easily debunked, but not a one of them will ever believe it.
Don’t take the word of a fascist at face value. They don’t argue in good faith. They are all racists and sexists, every single one. They’re just too cowardly to say it to your face.
Completely untrue. Their good intentioned. They just are given news from an alternate reality where Trump is not fascist, racist, and is so smart. When you don’t hear bad news on someone, how can you know their bad?
I’ve had conversations with 4 different people who just happened to go mask off in the last few days. Please stop believing liars.
That’s sad to hear. Not the people I know. Your experience isn’t a reflection of everybody else’s
Unless that the large portion of americas population that thinks the ultra rich are awesome suddenly stops thinking that way then it’s gonna be a difficult battle.
My favorite is “America is a deeply sexist country!” followed by “But misogyny didn’t contribute to this defeat at all!” by abstainers.
You can’t say that it didn’t contribute at all. I don’t think anyone is. And if they are, they’re stupid. But trying to boil it down to just that answer is even more stupid.
Harris retained more male Biden voters than female.
Capitalism is eating people alive. And people are fuckin sick of it. The democrats are the one party that actually pretends to try to appear to be on the “right” side, but will throw the working class under their campaign bus the minute the big money donors pull on their strings. So the betrayal people feel from the dems is fuckin palpable.
That, I think, is the biggest contributor. We are told they are the ones that will actually do good, but then get in office and “stay the course,” so their voters turn on them. Then we get people like trump and bush in office, and people are disgusted, so we hold our noses and vote for the democrats. But they’re Lucy and we’re Charlie Brown, and the cycle starts all over again. Meanwhile, the Overton window keeps lurching to the right, capitalism scorches the earth and robs us blind, and we all get more desperate. People are angrier than ever, and feel even more betrayed because it’s increasingly clear to more and more people that we have no one in our corner.
But here come the democrats again, telling us we’re on the right path, that we just have to trust them and their incrementalism nonsense while they try to court some nonexistent right-leaning swing voter. They fucked up bad on that last point this go round. They turned their backs on us in a big way to parade the Cheneys around telling us they were going to put republicans in the White House even if the democrats win? What in the fuck were they thinking?
Meanwhile, the Overton window keeps lurching to the right, capitalism scorched the earth and we all get more desperate.
Yes, tell me more about how much more conservative we were during the Biden administration than during the Bush administration. I’m all ears.
Dem leadership are feckless, spineless, and utterly out of touch. But that even left-wing voters slurp up shit propaganda that helps the right-wing because it sounds truthy is probably the most damning indictment of the American electorate.
One could make the argument that the leftists are right, and the people who keep supporting the democrats as they continually walk us down the path toward collapse are the ones that are slurping up propaganda about the system being able to save itself.
Look at the long list of anarchist and leftist thinkers. They’ve been ignored and shunted off to the side since the late 1800s. Arrested, killed, devastated by state propaganda. Assassinated, vilified.
All the while, democrats have been walking hand in hand with the republicans, defending the rotting corpse of capitalism as it drags us all under. We’ve had answers as to why so many are suffering. But those answers are a threat to the ownership class and the prevailing order. And I would argue that not upturning that order, instead opting to vote for the “lesser of two evils” no matter what, is 50% responsible for the situation we’re in.
You said it yourself. You want spineless, feckless, out of touch leaders so that we can avoid spiteful, hateful leaders. The spineless, feckless out of touch bunch was courting the spiteful hateful bunch. Because throughout history, liberals will reach for the fascists when the cry for true change to help the people become deafening. Look at France. Right now. The liberal, trying to hold onto power and the standing order, formed a coalition with the right wing, instead of the left wing that won the majority of the votes. Look at Harris, parading around the fuckin Cheney family when people were really just asking them to stop slaughtering children in Gaza and the West Bank.
Isn’t following that same path, regardless of the recorded history of a fascist outcome the more likely candidate for “slurping up propaganda?” Blaming the electorate for their entirely reasonable wants being ignored.
This is exactly how fascists have come to power. Through a desire to maintain the status quo and an uneasy alliance between liberals and the right wing. Defenders of the status quo thinking it’s better to go fascist than to challenge the prevailing order. Blaming the people who want real change when the people you were voting for lurched right is the definition of succumbing to a propaganda campaign.
Women should just fucking leave their Trump voting husband/boyfriend and should go no contact with their Trump loving fathers, brothers and sons. Seriously if the men don’t stand behind their women why should these women even support their men.
Go let them wallow in misery. And let them fight over the remaining nut job women who voted for Trump. The Trump male to Trump female ratio doesn’t favor these men in the dating scene.
These men who are meant to be protectors of the women in their lives have committed the ultimate betrayal of selling them out as slaves. What vile creatures. How could anyone stand to be in the same room as a man who did that to you. That would make me sick to my core.
They don’t value women enough to consider that a loss.
For them, all of the smart women shutting up or leaving is probably beneficial.
Genuinely curious, what about all the women that voted orange?
stockholm syndrome
Not really a thing:
4b baby
4B no babies.
Some will. Some can’t.
Theres always adding visine to your abusive husbands coffee
We lost because of a lack of blue votes but what, 40% of the US basically voted to have them as property?
I actually concluded that and that the Democrats have no fucking clue who their fucken base is. Jfc. They should all just register as Republicans if they want to keep moving right like this.
Democrats don’t really have a base. It’s not progressives, if that’s what you’re thinking, we don’t have the numbers for that kind of sway. You can see this clearly in how many House seats we hold.
If there is any base to dems, its white collar suburban soccer moms. But it’s not actually that either, they’re just one of the biggest segments.
Exactly; “Democrats” are the party of the “not Republicans”. With how far right the Overton window has shifted, that covers a LOT of the political spectrum, much of which is in opposition.
And yet, the Overton window isn’t wide enough to fight a tiny slice of window, which is “far right fascists”
That’s the point; the different groups are just as likely to fight each other as the far right, which now has an entire party to itself.
Doesnt matter anymore. Have you seen what these lunatics have been saying as potential members of his cabinet and beyond? Anyone who voted Democrat is in danger at this point. The rise of the American Reich.
I’m certain thier base is whomever votes at this point. If the GOP dissappear tomorrow, I’m concerned they would start putting up nazi flags.
Harris didn’t move right! She supported expanding the child tax credit, legalizing marijuana, codifying Roe, etc.
She did campaign with Cheney, but didn’t endorse her or promise her a position of power or adopt any of her policy preferences. The whole point was to signal “Trump is so dangerous that even the most conservative leaders are setting aside their disagreements to support me.”
Moved right on the border.
Women, immigrants, racial minorities in general, LGBTQ people, muslims, the poor, themselves, it’s pretty much everyone at this point.
Trump voters are misogynistic assholes, that’s a given, and pay off the reason the Dems shouldn’t have been trying to get them… But it’s not like a bunch of people who voted for Joe went and voted for Trump… He didn’t get more votes this time. Millions of Biden voters just didn’t show up… And I don’t believe for a second that they didn’t show up because they just didn’t want to vote for a woman
It does suck that this country has so many misogynists… But they are a known factor and can/should have been planned for… that’s not what cost Dems this election
“Republicans hate women.” Plain and simple. Saw it on a t-shirt and just had to have it. God bless the truth coming out💙
Lots of young women actually voted for Trump. Go figure: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/yes-trump-improved-young-men-drew-young-women-rcna179019
That’s what they mean by America hates women. It includes women too.
Saying women can’t be sexist is akin to saying black people can’t be racist. Of course they can, and I saw segments where they were interviewing Trump women at rallies and they were saying shit like women are too emotional to lead a country. It turns out people can hate themselves.
I heard an interview with a woman who said she voted Republican because, on the one hand, abortion “isn’t that big of a deal” and ought to be left up to the states, but on the other, “doctors shouldn’t be allowed to abort babies after they’re born.”
So this person thinks that doctors are murdering babies… and that should be allowed on a state by state basis. Which… boy oh boy, I’m not sure what to even do with a mind that works that way.
Internalised misogyny and all of that.
Wild.
Lol this mfer can make them into breeder slaves from Mad Max Fury Road and they’d just vote even harder for him next time.
It’s just joever, people prefer authoritarianism over freedom, even reproductive freedom or bodily autonomy, they are sheep that need to be led where to go and told what to think.
It’s really beyond time for this sort of disinformation to fuck off.
Harris lost because she’s a neoliberal, full stop. Scapegoating it as sexism means you learned fucking nothing and will only keep losing.
If you think sexism wasn’t a significant part of this, I don’t know what to tell you. Of course it was. Biden wasn’t better than her in any way and he won against Trump. Despite the fact that practically no one was excited to vote for him. It’s baffling you’re even questioning this.
Biden wasn’t better, Trump’s issues were just more in the forefront of people’s minds. They asked themselves “do I want more of this” and said no. Since then there have been rose colored glasses that make people think he was good for the economy and they’ve forgotten the chaos. And now the “do I want more of this” question is moving against the Democrats and a candidate that was reticent to truly separate herself from “this”.
Anyone who wasn’t fully aware that Trump is the worst candidate ever… Is
totoo(damnit) dumb to have made it to a polling station.They all wanted a rapist in the White House.
Is to dumb to have made it to a polling station
I agree with you, but can’t pass up calling out the irony here.
It’s funny, but my phone being shit to type on isn’t ironic.
Not really what happened. Trump kept basically the same voters. As has been pointed out 5000 times, this election was lost because millions of Democratic voters stayed home. One of the primary reasons, which is slapping us in the face, is her gender. There simply isn’t a world where sexism exists where this wouldn’t have played a not-small role.
Whether sexism was an important part of it or not isn’t the point.
The point is that if we allow that statement to pass unchallenged, it will take over the narrative, none of the necessary reforms will happen, and the world will continue to get worse.
Right we can only talk about one thing. Fair.
We can talk about the one thing that’s important, or we can talk about mostly-irrelevant bullshit that not only fails to solve the problem, but actively works against solving it by serving as a distraction. I mean, if you just fucking love failure and losing for some reason, I guess you could do the latter, but why?
Absurd
Any sane adult should have beat Trump. He won because 72 million Americans want fascism.
no, he won because 20 million Americans played chicken in Americas only car and we fucking lost.
I kinda think the 73 million who voted R might be the bigger problem here.
they are a problem, but terrible people will be terrible and nothing will change that.
20 million voters figuratively said, “no, fuck you we want nothing to do with this system.” even though they are literally a part of the system.
it’s like negotiating with a toddler. ˢᵐᵃˡˡ world view with BIG ambitions.
Half of the reason government exists is to stop terrible people from being terrible. Religion is supposed to reign in the terrible people too, American Evangelicalism just creates terrible people.
yeah… Government exists to control the society. They say the government is the will of the people, but that’s been a lie historically for many, many, many years.
Religion is the antithesis of government. Religion is meant to control the will of the people. to direct it and hone it to a fine point.
Historically, if you look at the impact that religion had on systems of government, you can see that there’s definitely a negative impact where one becomes weaker.
The point being, both systems of government and religion are tools in which to control the fate of man. The reason why American Evangelicalism creates terrible people is because there are terrible people leading American Evangelicals.
And the reason why the American system of government supports terrible people is because it was modified to support terrible people. The same terrible people leading American evangelicals.
If we had any hope in making impactful change, it would have started with education.
Now, my fear is it’s too late for education. And what comes next will be horrific.
I think we definitely are in agreement here. My one quibble is I don’t know that religion is the antithesis of government so much as a more primitive form of government. The earliest religions were a form of law enforcement in world without police or judicial systems.
If it’s just you and someone else alone in the wilderness, why shouldn’t you just kill them and take their stuff? There are no consequences. Religion adds the consequences. “God will punish you. You’ll burn in Hell/Hades/Tartarus.” Why shouldn’t I steal? “It’s a sin.” Why shouldn’t I sleep with my neighbors wife? “It’s bad karma.” It’s all just laws enforced by a mythological father figure instead of a real guy with a gun.
Once all the smart, wealthy, moral, and ethical people flee the US that can flee the US do flee the US I’ll finally be able to get a job!
Completely agree, but I’ve been seeing so many similar sentiments on Lemmy since the election. Today I saw someone comment, almost word for word, that there was no problem with Kamala’s campaign - the issue was simply that Americans are too stupid. Someone else on a totally different post commented that this election proves the Dems could run Jesus Christ himself and half the country would still reject him. And those are just two examples. This is one of more unhinged meltdowns I’ve ever seen.
Dems could run Jesus Christ himself and half the country would still reject him
I mean, that is undeniably true, but we’ve known that for a lot longer than two days.
Dems would never run Jesus Christ because they only run sellout genocidal cartoon villains
???
My bad, that was a little aggressive. Dems wouldn’t run Jesus Christ because he would be perceived as a socialist
What they meant to say was “I stayed home because I pretend to care about Palestinians, but just killed them even more rapidly” because they are a hollow fake moral warrior
I voted, not that it mattered in the slightest, I’m not in a state where my vote means anything
GeNoCiDe
I get the anger from dems against those who didn’t vote but honestly that’s more on the democratic party for not putting forward a candidate that earned those votes than anything else. Neither candidate is “entitled” to votes, just because the other candidate is abhorrent. I do think things will get considerably worse now and that’ll hopefully teach those who didn’t vote that yes that can happen and they should vote but the decision not to isn’t on the electorate, it’s the party that felt like they deserved votes they didn’t earn.
Dem party has no obligation to court voters that won’t show up. Dems should not even bother with that segment ever again. This is why Dems were trying to convert more centrist republicans that do know how to show up and vote.
That’s stupid. People won’t show up tp vote for a party that doesn’t represent their values and the dems aren’t just entitled to votes because trump is the opponent. You can’t win an election on just “the other guy is worse”. You need policies that galvanise your voter base and actually makes a difference in their lives so they don’t feel voting for either party is a waste of time. Objectively trump is worse but it’s on the dems to convince the voters of that and they failed horribly.
Sure, go ask the average turnip voter if her neoliberal stances were why they voted for the rapist, 34 time convicted felon who cages children, is literally traded on the stock market and has nothing but praise for dictators, in fact who expressed his desire to be one multiple times on the campaign trail.
You folks are so desperate to not blame the majority of people who chose to either vote for that, or were at least comfortable with him as their leader.
It’s not “just” that, but it was the deciding factor that made this all moot from the start.
The people who voted for trump are, in their DNA, at their core, bigoted cowards that wouldn’t have been swayed by anything else - She has a vagina and she’s black - That’s all it was ever going to be.
" I was this close, Bill… I just wanted more policy details… More time… If only they didn’t make me vote for trump".
The people who voted for trump are, in their DNA, at their core, bigoted cowards that wouldn’t have been swayed by anything else - She has a vagina and she’s black - That’s all it was ever going to be.
" I was this close, Bill… I just wanted more policy details… More time… If only they didn’t make me vote for trump".
My Trump-supporting mother, mother-in-law, father-in-law, sister-in-law and sister would all cite “abortion is murder” and “criminal illegals” bullshit before Harris’ vagina or skin ever came into it.
I almost wish the Dems had run Biden despite his terrible debate performance so that people wouldn’t blame the Dems losing on Harris’ vagina and skin color instead of her terrible campaign.
Trump did about as well as he did in 2020, that Harris lost is because she did worse than Biden did in 2020. Fear of Trump wasn’t as fresh to animate the base and she only really courted moderate republicans and middle class white women in the latter stages of her (short) campaign and that hurt turnout and turnout is the most important thing for Dems.
I think like this, the only time Trump lost, was when racing against another white cishet dude, just more white and old than him, more respectable so to speak, he even was a previous VP. Harris had that same feat in the list, among lot of qualifications. Patriarchy is real, 10 million voters that showed up for him, didn’t for her, and I can’t help to draw the same conclusions here. This is what you get when you let your country lean to the right year after year. After witnessing this defeat, I’m now sure 100% that USA is not going to have a woman as president in my lifetime. The only way for this to happen is both Dems and Reps present woman candidates, so you will be forced to pick a woman one way or another. And Reps are not going to present such candidate in my lifetime.
You morons pick the clown over the woman, so far 100% of times it happened. White, latino and black men are still mostly male chauvinists, and that shows. A woman very qualified for the job is not fit for being president. If you want this to change, conversations about misogyny need to happen among your friends and family, denying this will not make it disappear, dumbfucks.
