People talk about filter bubbles, but there’s a nuance here: on Lemmy, you’re not being served up whatever the platform owners think you should see from an opaque algorithm. You’re going to, by default, see cesspool content. You have to choose to block it.
But that gets back to something similar to OP’s statement. As in, you can spin up your own instance (though a not entirely trivial process), or you have the freedom to choose an instance that matches your style [edit: and people tend to gravitate towards an instance admin policy that matches their preferences].
Some people want some content blocked - e.g. NSFW, or even NSFL. Or even better, slap a label on each content item, which rather than have to choose between the binary options of forcibly remove or allow fully, offers each person their own choice to view or not. PieFed even has a NSFL/gore/gross tag that you can set, though only for posts ATM not comments.
I find the Fediverse really friendly in regards to NSFW/NSFL content, in that it is both here but virtually never unlabeled (ONCE in the last year iirc there was a particular spam account that got through…). Politicial or extremist content not so much unfortunately, so we’re back to blocking or defederating, for those for whom consent of the reader of their messages means little to nothing.
To me Lemmy.world is just a place to login, I forget how I even got here. But I really don’t think of it as one instance vs others or care how it compares with others. The content is what matters, and if I finally understand it correctly the content is everywhere.
Mostly that’s true but not entirely. The common analogy is that the Fediverse is a bunch of pirate or free trading ships passing in the night, each passing messages from one to another until they all have all of the messages - “federation”. However, some captains have some bad blood between them and other captains and refuse to pass messages from them along - “defederation”. And for good reason I need to add, bc if outright illegal material were to make its way onto your “ship”/computer then you could be in big trouble, like literally with the FBI or other equivalent governmental agency in other countries. Or imagine that some captain decides to send out a virus - not all of these captains are apparently ethical!
In practice, any captain of a ship can decide which messages they want to pass along to share with others vs. keep private solely for themselves (their own internal set of users). And likewise they get to decide which messages to receive too - like none from a particular source, or maybe only some if they are structured a certain way. And then on top of all of that, Lemmy.World in particular has decided to edit certain messages to filter out banned keywords that they deem offensive to their users.
So like an irl example is that a few years ago a bunch of people/captains decided to create Alt-Right instances, and these spewed forth violent rhetoric and pedophilic content throughout the Fediverse - which in addition to being not nice was highly illegal. So rather than allow that to get us all in trouble with the FBI, in response all the other captains/instances decided to block/defederate from them. In theory I suppose you could spin up your own instance - becoming captain of your own ship - and you could choose to receive to those messages (but again, be careful about content that is literally illegal!). Although actually I think those instances may have shut down in the meantime, deciding to switch to the likes of Truth Social, so they probably are not around anymore to be federated with even if someone wanted to. Still, to be on the safe side, every instance I’ve ever seen has defederated from them, I guess in case they ever decide to come back.
So one practical way that this affects you personally is that Lemmy.world has decided to defederate from hexbear.net, a known nest of trolls (they enjoy a highly contentious argumentation style, but they don’t stop that even outside of their communities where it is consensual, and it is this refusal to consider consent of people outside of their echo chambers that makes them trolls). So no, this content in particular is not “everywhere” - it is blocked quite often from many/most instances.
If you truly wanted to experience the Fediverse with as few filtering of messages as possible (although remember that not all of it is offered in good faith), then you may want to make an account on lemm.ee rather than lemmy.world. But otherwise lemmy.world is a great instance - it is where ~80% of all the people on Lemmy are located.
Fantastic explanation, thanks for taking the time to post that! I’m fine with not having to sift through a lot of troll content and angry argument from people who just want an argument. There’s still a fair amount of “So WhAt YoU’rE SaYiNg Is [something I was not saying]” but I guess that’s inevitable. I think Lemmy.world is great.
Yeah some amount of that is inevitable, but see e.g. https://hexbear.net/post/3820065 for an example of the type of content that you are “missing”, being on lemmy.world that has defederated from hexbear. Also note how it’s not just the post itself but how supportive of the position the comments are (overall), with several of them expressing an explicit desire to do such again, and the overall theme being how “funny” it was.
Now mind you, there is still a lot of similar content that you aren’t “missing”, from places such as lemmy.ml, but hexbear.net is most definitely a special place full of toxic trolls (many of whom continue to troll us after the defederation via their lemmy.ml alts, bc consent means little to them). Here is another example, this time from lemmy.ml that almost no instances have defederated from, since the admins are also the developers of the sourcecode for Lemmy: https://lemmy.ml/post/22043103. The cognitive dissonance is in full display on that instance by declaring that what the Western nations do is “genocide” (I mean…), yet somehow what Russia and China are doing is not genocide - either directly (Uyghurs & Ukraine) or indirectly (the USA has sent support to Israel, while Russia has also sent support to the other side of that conflict). Realistically, both the USA and Russia are supporting genocide, but NOT EQUALLY SO, as one of those two nations is also actively engaging in that activity directly.
Because of so very many posts from this, and toxic trolling from many of their users, I have gone to great lengths to find a way to block both hexbear.net and lemmy.ml, even switching instances to piefed.social that allows a normal user, without needing admin support, to block all users from any instance of my choice (https://piefed.social/post/307636 ). There are also some apps that can do that as well, though you won’t find that option provided in basic Lemmy. I’m not necessarily advocating for such a switch, but it’s nice to know that it’s possible, and it is good to be aware of what content is out there and in particular note where it comes from - i.e. you may want to block at the very least communities such as !memes@lemmy.ml, if you don’t enjoy having the above-mentioned content finding its way into your feed.:-)
Wait, is some content blocked on some instances and available on others? If that’s true then I still don’t understand lemmy - I thought the content was everywhere.
Some instances choose to “defederate” other instances, which means that users from one won’t be able to see or intract with content from the other. This is primarily meant to combat instances that create spam or host illegal content, but many instances use it for political purposes.
hello fellow sdf’er :) I specifically chose SDF so I could choose what to block myself, and so far I have just blocked a lot of anime. Anything political I see is leftist.
People talk about filter bubbles, but there’s a nuance here: on Lemmy, you’re not being served up whatever the platform owners think you should see from an opaque algorithm. You’re going to, by default, see cesspool content. You have to choose to block it.
Unfortunately, the owners of your instance can also choose to block something for you.
But that gets back to something similar to OP’s statement. As in, you can spin up your own instance (though a not entirely trivial process), or you have the freedom to choose an instance that matches your style [edit: and people tend to gravitate towards an instance admin policy that matches their preferences].
Some people want some content blocked - e.g. NSFW, or even NSFL. Or even better, slap a label on each content item, which rather than have to choose between the binary options of forcibly remove or allow fully, offers each person their own choice to view or not. PieFed even has a NSFL/gore/gross tag that you can set, though only for posts ATM not comments.
I find the Fediverse really friendly in regards to NSFW/NSFL content, in that it is both here but virtually never unlabeled (ONCE in the last year iirc there was a particular spam account that got through…). Politicial or extremist content not so much unfortunately, so we’re back to blocking or defederating, for those for whom consent of the reader of their messages means little to nothing.
To me Lemmy.world is just a place to login, I forget how I even got here. But I really don’t think of it as one instance vs others or care how it compares with others. The content is what matters, and if I finally understand it correctly the content is everywhere.
Mostly that’s true but not entirely. The common analogy is that the Fediverse is a bunch of pirate or free trading ships passing in the night, each passing messages from one to another until they all have all of the messages - “federation”. However, some captains have some bad blood between them and other captains and refuse to pass messages from them along - “defederation”. And for good reason I need to add, bc if outright illegal material were to make its way onto your “ship”/computer then you could be in big trouble, like literally with the FBI or other equivalent governmental agency in other countries. Or imagine that some captain decides to send out a virus - not all of these captains are apparently ethical!
In practice, any captain of a ship can decide which messages they want to pass along to share with others vs. keep private solely for themselves (their own internal set of users). And likewise they get to decide which messages to receive too - like none from a particular source, or maybe only some if they are structured a certain way. And then on top of all of that, Lemmy.World in particular has decided to edit certain messages to filter out banned keywords that they deem offensive to their users.
So like an irl example is that a few years ago a bunch of people/captains decided to create Alt-Right instances, and these spewed forth violent rhetoric and pedophilic content throughout the Fediverse - which in addition to being not nice was highly illegal. So rather than allow that to get us all in trouble with the FBI, in response all the other captains/instances decided to block/defederate from them. In theory I suppose you could spin up your own instance - becoming captain of your own ship - and you could choose to receive to those messages (but again, be careful about content that is literally illegal!). Although actually I think those instances may have shut down in the meantime, deciding to switch to the likes of Truth Social, so they probably are not around anymore to be federated with even if someone wanted to. Still, to be on the safe side, every instance I’ve ever seen has defederated from them, I guess in case they ever decide to come back.
So one practical way that this affects you personally is that Lemmy.world has decided to defederate from hexbear.net, a known nest of trolls (they enjoy a highly contentious argumentation style, but they don’t stop that even outside of their communities where it is consensual, and it is this refusal to consider consent of people outside of their echo chambers that makes them trolls). So no, this content in particular is not “everywhere” - it is blocked quite often from many/most instances.
If you truly wanted to experience the Fediverse with as few filtering of messages as possible (although remember that not all of it is offered in good faith), then you may want to make an account on lemm.ee rather than lemmy.world. But otherwise lemmy.world is a great instance - it is where ~80% of all the people on Lemmy are located.
Fantastic explanation, thanks for taking the time to post that! I’m fine with not having to sift through a lot of troll content and angry argument from people who just want an argument. There’s still a fair amount of “So WhAt YoU’rE SaYiNg Is [something I was not saying]” but I guess that’s inevitable. I think Lemmy.world is great.
Yeah some amount of that is inevitable, but see e.g. https://hexbear.net/post/3820065 for an example of the type of content that you are “missing”, being on lemmy.world that has defederated from hexbear. Also note how it’s not just the post itself but how supportive of the position the comments are (overall), with several of them expressing an explicit desire to do such again, and the overall theme being how “funny” it was.
Now mind you, there is still a lot of similar content that you aren’t “missing”, from places such as lemmy.ml, but hexbear.net is most definitely a special place full of toxic trolls (many of whom continue to troll us after the defederation via their lemmy.ml alts, bc consent means little to them). Here is another example, this time from lemmy.ml that almost no instances have defederated from, since the admins are also the developers of the sourcecode for Lemmy: https://lemmy.ml/post/22043103. The cognitive dissonance is in full display on that instance by declaring that what the Western nations do is “genocide” (I mean…), yet somehow what Russia and China are doing is not genocide - either directly (Uyghurs & Ukraine) or indirectly (the USA has sent support to Israel, while Russia has also sent support to the other side of that conflict). Realistically, both the USA and Russia are supporting genocide, but NOT EQUALLY SO, as one of those two nations is also actively engaging in that activity directly.
Because of so very many posts from this, and toxic trolling from many of their users, I have gone to great lengths to find a way to block both hexbear.net and lemmy.ml, even switching instances to piefed.social that allows a normal user, without needing admin support, to block all users from any instance of my choice (https://piefed.social/post/307636 ). There are also some apps that can do that as well, though you won’t find that option provided in basic Lemmy. I’m not necessarily advocating for such a switch, but it’s nice to know that it’s possible, and it is good to be aware of what content is out there and in particular note where it comes from - i.e. you may want to block at the very least communities such as !memes@lemmy.ml, if you don’t enjoy having the above-mentioned content finding its way into your feed.:-)
Good choice of instance :-)
Yeah, the SDF instance seems to be lenient about this. Hopefully it will last.
I agree.
Wait, is some content blocked on some instances and available on others? If that’s true then I still don’t understand lemmy - I thought the content was everywhere.
Some instances choose to “defederate” other instances, which means that users from one won’t be able to see or intract with content from the other. This is primarily meant to combat instances that create spam or host illegal content, but many instances use it for political purposes.
And without that capability, every instance would be a cesspool of Nazi and pedo content flooding in from the Fediverse’s dark side.
The instance I’m on doesn’t seem to block any other instances and I’m not seeing any Nazi or pedo content.
hello fellow sdf’er :) I specifically chose SDF so I could choose what to block myself, and so far I have just blocked a lot of anime. Anything political I see is leftist.
Hah, the world admins are desperately trying to keep the instance running, blocking shit isn’t even close to their radar.
deleted by creator
They don’t block dbzero, I get that, it’s usually just ignorable.
I was happy today when I made a post on an obscure community and some guy just passing by on the “new” feed left a comment.
Very true, count dongulus.