- cross-posted to:
- work@group.lt
- hackernews@derp.foo
- cross-posted to:
- work@group.lt
- hackernews@derp.foo
Office happy hours, client dinners and other after-hours work gatherings lose their luster as more people feel the pull of home
Patience for after-hours work socializing is wearing thin.
After an initial burst of postpandemic happy hours, rubber chicken dinners and mandatory office merriment, many employees are adopting a stricter 5:01-and-I’m-done attitude to their work schedules. More U.S. workers say they’re trying to draw thicker lines between work and the rest of life, and that often means clocking out and eschewing invites to socialize with co-workers. Corporate event planners say they’re already facing pushback for fall activities and any work-related functions that take place on weekends.
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I absolutely loathe expressions like “days off” and “personal time.” It just has a connotation that your life is by default your employer’s. That kind of subliminal messaging can get fucked.
In the same vein, ‘long weekend’ is another that can drop dead as well.
To the point where I’ve started calling a ‘normal’ weekend a ‘short weekend’.
I’ve started suspecting that a lot of people get through it by just avoiding their family… which, why get married then?
Peak boomer humor is “take my wife…please!” Cue laugh track.
Rent
Some, definitely. Others don’t have hobbies. Others don’t sleep much and try to pack everything in.
I’ve been considering adding massive amounts of amphetamines to my life so I can accomplish all I need to and do all I want to.
It’s a serious fucking challenge. Which is why I’ll switch jobs if my employer starts demanding that I come in more than my current 2 days/week.
good. nobody is getting promoted or extra benefits this year anyway.
Companies when trying to get workers to bond: “We’re a family, we take care of each other!”
Companies when workers ask for cost-of-living increases: “No, not like that”
Also wages are shit compared to inflation. I don’t know how anyone can afford to eat out and have drinks unless they are killing it.
Wsj is owned by Murdoch. We aren’t supposed to find reasons for this phenomenon, just a “hey that’s weird, I wonder why ¯\_(ツ)_/¯”
It’s millennials fault for not buying stuff.
No, no. It’s millennial’s fault for not buying the right stuff.
Or for buying too much stuff. Or really, whatever problem is currently happening. It’s the Millenials fault somehow, we’ll just figure out how later.
In my case one of the bosses pays for the drinks. Makes it a lot easier.
Real wages are actually up.
The company I work for was nice enough to give me a 5% COL increase last year. Groceries are 50% higher. Gas 25%. Insurance 20%. Clothing is definitely at least 10%. Restaurants about 20%.
But yeah… My “real” wage is higher.
I’m guessing you also believe in Keynesian economics.
Wait what’s wrong with keynesian economics?
Nothing in particular, it’s better than classical economics and is an actual thing unlike MMT. It’s certainly not perfect, but I don’t know that a perfect school of economic thought is even possible.
No they’re not. Wages have not kept up with inflation over the last few years.
Wages have not kept up with inflation over the last few
yearsdecades.
What’s a real wage?
More than what I get.
A measurement of nominal wages against a series of basket of goods indices that control for real-world value of earnings — accounting for inflation and a number of other market and environmental factors.
Compared to inflation
real wages
How does that work? Unless there’s been some drastic improvements very recently, or billionaires are included, US wages have been losing purchasing power for decades.
When I last checked a few years ago, when accounting for inflation, average US wages had dropped about 5% compared to the 70s while the price of goods had increased by anywhere from 50-100% in most cases, with some things increasing by 200% or more. College, in particular, is up like 1,100% or something from the beginning of the 70s. Another absurd example is a taco at Taco Bell, which has doubled in price since the 90s, when accounting for inflation. The cost of rent has doubled since the 70s and has gotten even worse in recent years. The rule used to be not to spend more than 30% of your wages on rent. Now it’s don’t spend more than 60%. It used to be feasible to buy a house on the wages of 1 person. Now, it’s barely viable to afford a house on the wages of 2 people.
Wealth inequality is the worst it’s been in US history. According to the IRS, more than half of Americans made less than $20k last year - I think 51% made less than $15k. At a previous job where I made roughly $25k a year, I was making more than the bottom 60% of Americans. Raises haven’t kept up with CoL increases for years now. The average American works 50 hours a week between 2 jobs and switches jobs every 2 years because it’s the best way to make sure you’re paid what your skills are actually worth.
I can’t imagine where the data you saw came from, but that has the same vibes as when they said that people were going to take their COVID checks and use them to buy cars.
Eh I don’t mind a schmooze.
More than once a month? No. Weekends? No. Mandatory? Hell no, but I think that a bit of camaraderie goes a long, long way when dealing with iffy clients or just generally.
I don’t think work is “family” but it should definitely be a team. That’s just good for everyone. Raising a pint every so often definitely helps that along.
Our office I’m actually going to give them props for this - they do these events during work hours. Summer bbq? Close office 4 hrs early and it’s free drinks and food for everyone. Annual golf event? Tuesday at noon, you can work or you can golf, your call.
Granted I’m too busy to partake for the most part but I’m not a clock puncher, and if I was, I’d appreciate the effort.
This is the way.
I agree, though it depends on the activity. Going for drinks is shitty on coworkers who don’t drink. Going for BBQ is shitty on coworkers who are vegan/vegetarian. You can’t please everyone, but I think it’s very possible to at least not exclude anyone.
I worked at a place where everyone came in a bit early on Fridays for free bagels. It was nice to shoot the shit, and most people left a bit early in the afternoon to offset the earlier arrival. Maybe we lost a little productivity. However, everyone knew everyone in that office.
I appreciate you. I’m a teetotaling vegetarian. I usually manage to figure something out (and I try not to impose or be a killjoy), but it’s easier when colleagues are looking out for you.
You’d be welcome at my barbecue. I’ve got one grill that is just for my vegan friends and has never had an animal product on it along with a set of separate utensils (although they get washed with the others).
But I do that for friends, coworkers aren’t allowed to know where I live.
This is why I’m a fan of pot luck lunches.
Done right with a little planning so you don’t wind up with 5 bowls of Midwest Nasty Salad (that’s… the bland, disgusting potatoe salad white people up here think is “good”…. Where the sole flavor comes from that half-jar of dill relish juice….) one dessert and no protein…. Everybody gets to bring something that works for them. Bring enough to share. Maybe start a competition with differing teams “hosting” the thing. (Managment starts to get it off to a good start.)
We used to have those at my old workplace. It wasn’t usually done well. Usually what ended up happening is that only half the people brought stuff and it wouldn’t be enough to feed everyone, so someone would order a bunch of pizza to make up the difference. The worst was when nobody signed up to bring plates…
Having happy hours can be a blast if you get along well with your coworkers, and I do miss the holiday parties from previous companies.
But I’ll gladly take being at home over anything else
So let me get this right….
It’s newsworthy that people don’t want to hang around their office and/or coworkers after work? People who get ally have seen the last few years shred their savings, who face continuous increases in the cost of living, and in America, no meaningful social protections, and very little vacation or freedom with their time and agency….don’t want to spend more time at their office?
Shocking, I say! Harrumph harrumph I’ve dropped my manacle, I’m so angry.
God I hate these events. My company took a stance where it gives every team $100 per head that expire at the end of every second quarter and life couldn’t be better. We’re a small team of 5 people so we just use the money to occasionally feast or buy every team member a PS5 in order and we couldn’t be happier that our HR isn’t forcing us to attend company events.
If you’re in position of power please promote something similar, your employees will thank you
This is my thing. I’m happy to schmooze when work is picking up the tab.
Even then I’m not a fan.
So instead of paying me OT to do things they want me to do after hours, they’ll pay the cost of a meal or a drink?
Nah.
ITT: I don’t want to ever socialize with my co-workers Also: How do you make friends as an adult?
Look I’m not a huge fan of forced socialization myself. I HATE small talk. I’m looking for the door before I have the first drink in my hand at “networking events”. But I also know one of the biggest opportunities I have to meet new people as an adult is at at work. So I choose the situation carefully to make sure it’s one I’m comfortable with and I give it a go. I’ve made a few lasting friends, people I play soccer with, people I invite over my house, people who my other friends got tight with, and over all growing my social group. A number of them don’t even work for the same company anymore, or in my immediate office at least.
I’m not saying to do anything you don’t want to do, and forced fun can suck, but if you DO want to meet people in life and make friends, don’t force-limit your opportunities to interact with new people. Pick, or even suggest!, the situation that works for you.
Unless you have a hobby where you interact with people outside of work, your co-workers are your friends that you make as an adult. Some people I’m good friends with started as co-workers because I got to know them, we move on in different directions and stay in touch.
You will only ever make friends from pooled social gatherings (whether hobby, online, etc.), the most common one available for adults with the least effort are other co-workers.
All of my close friends were coworkers at one point. A few were friends first but most were not. It helps that my jobs have always been tech related so there’s always something to talk about. Even if it’s just commiserating on tech debt lol.
I tried making friends when my coworkers when I started my job and learned I have very little in common with any of them. It’s not like I didn’t try. Now that I know we can’t be friends, I don’t want to spend any more time with them than I have to. Is that so hard to understand?
Nope, not hard to understand. But that’s a different context than people’s blanket, “No”.
I can very much relate to being in a work environment where I there was no one I’d choose to interact with outside of professional conversation or idle water-cooler talk; if even that!
I’ve also been lucky enough to be in other ones where I’ve made great friends that I’ve had over for game nights, taken road trips with, invited to my house, been to their wedding (and they mine), and gone to shows with.
All I’m suggesting is to be open to it.
I admit it’s hard for me to make friends, but I’m not going to force a friendship with people with whom I have very little in common aside from working in the same office.
Yup, 100% with you there. I’m just saying that friendship can start with that one thing in common and grow. Or fizzle out when you quickly figure out it’s the only thing in common.
As another responder said, work is potentially your largest adult social pool to source from. Don’t dismiss it. But of course don’t feel obligated either.
My experience with work “friends” has always gone this way:
- I try to be friendly and approachable.
- People start asking you consistently for favors, help, and to stick up for them and their issues. I also find that the more they know about you, the easier it is to ask for shit (“hey I remember you said/are/live around/have X, so I was wondering if you could do Y for me”)
- Once that happens it’s impossible to shake them off without sounding like an asshole.
The only solution I see to this curse is to just avoid getting cornered in that situation. I avoid most socializing because of that.
Now add to this the fact I’m severely underpaid compared to the rest of the team (who do the same thing I do), that I got a promotion with no raise, and than my duties consistently increase, then it would be clear why I only do what’s needed for the job.
Honestly we need to move back towards making friends in our communities and not our workplace. I don’t know how it happened but the way we’ve managed to only have friends from work while not knowing the name of our neighbor should never have been the norm. Of course this works out perfect for the nolifers who always get the promotions, and the bosses who need their asses kissed to function.
Because “3rd places” have been hollowed out, especially non monetized ones, there’s fewer places to just meet people
Yeah, it’s overwhelmingly clear that too many people who can make decisions have this idea that “not revenue generating” = worthless.
But muh passive incooooommmeeee
With 3rd places needing to be profitable, it puts a really big stress on them getting throughput. So then that turns them into bars, restaurants, pool halls, or arcades. If they don’t they don’t make money and they can’t keep the space they are renting.
3rd places were always monetized.
Parks and community centers were valid non-monititzed 3rd places.
And whether or not you agree with them, places of worship were often an additional third place.
Parks and community spaces are presently non-monetized and usage has not changed, so it doesn’t really make sense to include them in this discussion.
Same with place of worship.
There are a lot of gated parks
We created a car-centric sprawled out world where you no longer engage with community members face to face, as much of your time outside of your house is simply walking to your car to drive to the nearest commercial center.
I’ve been talking with a friend about this after he pointed out the nuclear family really is fairly recent as a post WW2 thing. We’ve seen multigenerational households increase in the wake of the pandemic. Part of me thinks we’re going to see a movement back to that.
If people stay closer to home, that means friends from growing up are closer. They aren’t spread out across the whole country.
This is one of the most sadest and poignant things I’ve read in a long time. Spot on.
Always hated this expectation.
Particularly outrageous scenario 20 years ago, I was just getting started and was basically a limited hour part time employee making a bit more than minimum wage, but the office culture was dominated by people well into six figure salary. So they would act all shocked when us lowly folks would tend to decline when they said everyone needed to go to a $100 a plate for an after-work dinner (of course the company wouldn’t pay for any of this, but who doesn’t have the spare money to piss away $100 for a plate of food with colleagues every couple of weeks?)
When this was me, I’d always respond with, “I’m in if you’re buying. Otherwise, it’s not for me.”
Every now and then I scored a free meal and a networking opp.
Honestly I never did this in the past 20 years of work. Maybe a few office parties outside of work hours. But the whole “Have your boss or subordinate over for dinner” BS was never my thing.
TBH I truly think it was a boomer invention that died in the 80s, because nobody I know ever did anything like this willingly.
This is about happy hours and networking events. Lots of people did that.
Ah that’s fair.
Yeah had a few of those. They were always carefully written as “optional” but it was definitely a Convo piece of you didn’t show up.
I typically showed face for an hour or two, had one beer, sucked up and left. Which is what I’m assuming everyone else did too
I fought my boss over one of those voluntary gatherings. I had shit to do. He said it’s optional but if I want to get ahead I should go.
I did not get ahead.
But the whole “Have your boss or subordinate over for dinner” BS was never my thing.
TBH I truly think it was a boomer invention that died in the 80s, because nobody I know ever did anything like this willingly.
That was for a different time and era when company loyalty was a thing. When you intended to work for a company for decades, forming relationships with your boss actually meant something.
Nowadays employees are just disposable assets, so why bother forming deep bonds with your coworkers?
And back when your boss might actually also be the owner of the company - especially through the 50s and 60s, the person you worked for in the factory very likely could OWN that factory, and so having a decent relationship with them made it easier to approach them with modifications that might make a worker’s day easier, without the hostility of a strike.
Now, since every company is basically owned by some conglomerate, looking to sell to some conglomerate, or is about to get swallowed by some conglomerate, things like “labor relations” are dead. You can’t talk directly to your boss about maybe making sure the factory line has proper guards in place, because the guy who he has to talk to in order to make that decision is having brunch in Paris or meeting with some world leader today. Even if they could, the company bean counters already ran a cost-benefit analysis that showed that the loss of limbs and the payouts and fines they’d deal with for having no guards in place would only be 34% of the profit they’d make from increased production capability or whatever.
The day I was hired at my current job, my boss’s boss “made” me promise I’d work there for a decade lol
Not every job sees you as disposable. Leave those jobs until you find one that appreciates you. I’ve found 2 (out of my last 4) in a decade, but they’re out there.
Fuck work. They gotta bribe me to be there, I’m putting in minimal time and effort. Fuck all that bullshit.
It really depends on the work you’re doing I guess. Can you imagine if a neurosurgeon who gonna operate on you (hypothetically) think like that?
I’d rather be cut into by a neurosurgeon who does it because he’s paid than one who does it because it’s fun…
By putting minimal time and effort? Good luck coming out of the surgery intact…
My work does a decent job of doing the event during working hours or at the very least starting within work hours. So a work event starts at 3PM, people can bail at 5PM or stay longer if they want.
Mandatory office happy hours or team dinners should be paid time. If not, events should be held during work day hours.
NLRB would likely agree. If your employer compels you to be present, they need to pay you.
I don’t really even want to talk to my co-workers during work hours. It’s not that I dislike them, it’s just that I don’t care. I’m not interested in making friends, I am there to get paid. Just let me get my shit over with and let me go home. Thankfully, my work allows me to wear noise-cancelling earbuds the entire time I’m in the office unless someone can’t contact me over Slack for some reason.
I’m glad other people feel the same way. Sometimes i like the people i work with. But then they ask me after work if i want to go for a drink or whatever. No… why?
I’m glad I have a hybrid schedule (although WFH is the dream) so I only have to deal with inane prattle half the time and the earbuds mostly solve that problem.
I got you beat! One of my coworkers made eye contact with me while I was at my desk. I slid my monitor to the left to cover my face
I like my coworkers, just don’t like being in the office, even if it’s just an occasional thing
Hear, hear.
