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- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.smeargle.fans
Oxford study proves heat pumps triumph over fossil fuels in the cold::Published Monday in the scientific journal Joule, the research found that heat pumps are two to three times more efficient than their oil and gas counterparts, specifically in temperatures ranging from 10 C to -20 C.
That’s great, but fossil fuels are often available in the event of a power outage, and that can save lives during a winter storm. Availability is just as important as efficiency, and until we can make our power grid more resilient, we need to factor that in.
The vast majority of gas boilers use electronics to function. In a powercut they are also dead.
Now if you’re talking diesel generator back ups, then far enough.
If you have a generator, you can easily run the heat pump off of them as well, but it’s seldomly needed… if ever.
I live in Canada where it’s commonly -30c or colder in the winter. heat pumps work fine around here and quite a few places have them, from houses to factories. The only problem is the initial set up costs, because the lines have to get buried below the frost line (6-8 feet down). After that it’s smooth sailing for the most part.
Even in power outages, heated floors can retain their heat for much longer than conventional means, sometimes up to a day or two.
And the best part, is in the summer, you just reverse the system and it’s an air conditioner pumping your house heat into the ground to use again next winter.
Even gas stoves won’t work when the power is down, for the same reason.
Heard of a match?
Some won’t let gas flow if there is no electricity.
If you want to heat air and move it around you’re gonna want a fan, which will need electricity. My gas heat is no good when the power is out.
If you have a gas stove you really shouldn’t be using it without the fan running.
A power outage is one of those times as people are tempted to use it more and for longer if it’s the easiest source of heat.
When I lived in Pittsburgh many years ago, we had a full blizzard come through and our furnace went out in our “nice neighborhood/slumlord landlord” house. Benzene or no, the stove and oven kept us from freezing.
Provided the pressure is maintained from the outside, mine would work fine with a match.
Mine had a safety valve, which was unfortunately electronically controlled.
RIP
There are tons of non electronic gas heaters. I have one in my basement just for power outages so we can stay alive in the winter if we don’t have power. But I do think for majority of heating and cooling I would love to rip out my central furnace and replace with heat pumps but the cost is too great ATM. I have two heat pumps now, one in my garage and one in my top floor where the furnace could never reach.
There are significant tax credits and rebates to be had: https://www.hvac.com/expert-advice/inflation-reduction-act-heat-pump-rebates/
I have propane heat- a small generator will power the fans while the propane provides the actual heat. The generator wouldn’t be able to handle a whole heat pump though. I do lose power a lot and lost it for 4 days straight last Jan. This situation isn’t without merit.
If it’s just control systems though, they may be able to run off of a UPS for a day or so.
There are fans and pumps as well.
We’re also going to run out of oil in the next 40-45 years, so we should factor that in.
The 2 times (living not with my parents anymore) I had now electric power unplanned was of course when it was cold. However the fancy central heating running on gas was also not working. As the main unit also needed electric power.
So I could still cook my food but that’s was it. No heat. But that being said in my entire life we lost power (including as a kid) maybe 5 times and only for a couple of hours. In 33 years
I now have a heat pump and for cooking induction. So in a power outage I need to grab some camping gear. But I will probably survive for a couple of hours without heat.
But if you have regular power outages you and everybody in your country should probably vote and make your voices heard. If you live in a country where most people can afford heat pumps, the government can afford fixing the power grid.
Yeah, central air requires power to run the fan, but also the thermostat.
If you want to heat your house during a power outage, it takes less power to run your gas furnace than a space heater.
I have a duel fuel system (heat pump + gas furnace) which, while more expensive, is really the best of both worlds.
In a power outage I can plug in a generator and get the furnace running.
If temps drop too low and the heat pump is struggling I can switch to the furnace.
I can choose which to run based on current energy costs.
When looking into heat pumps everyone told me they don’t work well in the northeast or they would be more expensive to run here. I found it really difficult to get an accurate estimate of the cost difference between running a heat pump vs a gas furnace. Ultimately I decided to go dual fuel for flexibility but after comparing my bills before and after I almost wish I’d gone with a hyper heat unit so it could run at lower outdoor temps because the heat pump has turned out to be cheaper but I can’t run it at low temps.
I think HVAC techs in this area are weary of them based on past experience with older units but they really have improved in recent years.
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I wonder who the fuck is downvoting these comments. LOL - “NO FOSSIL FUELS, YOU MUST DIE IN A POWER OUTAGE!”
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Yes, and a gas generator or a remarkably small battery and inverter/dc-dc transformer overcomes the obstacle of powering the electronics - no need for a powerwall. Or you can have a woodstove - not fossil fuels, but def burning carbon for heat.
Most gas furnaces use forced air blowers to distribute the heat. You’re not running that on a small battery.
I was thinking about the water heater and radiators, totally forgot forced air blowers - you’re right.
Here in Canada it’s common to use geothermal heat pumps with floor heating. Even in a power outage the floor will retain their heat for much longer than conventional heating system can.
And if worst comes to worst, it’s not hard to run them off a generator, although I’ve never known anyone who has ever needed to.
My gas fireplace works great in a power outage, as do my stove and grill. Just because a subset of gas-powered appliances don’t work doesn’t mean none of them work.