WASHINGTON, Aug 30 (Reuters) - Donald Trump’s former lawyer Rudy Giuliani is liable for defaming two election workers in Georgia, a U.S. judge in Washington said on Wednesday.

Judge Beryl Howell issued the order as a sanction against Giuliani for failing to turn over electronic records sought by the two election workers, Wandrea “Shaye” Moss and her mother Ruby Freeman, in the case.

The judge’s order means Giuliani will have to pay damages for spreading false vote-rigging claims against the pair following the 2020 U.S. presidential election. He previously admitted that his statements were false and damaged Moss and Freeman’s reputations.

Giuliani will face a civil trial in Washington, D.C. federal court to determine how much he will have to pay.

  • Thrillhouse@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Could this ruling impact the Georgia RICO case because it’s now on the record that the election in Georgia was not rigged as they have claimed and keep claiming? Can a civil ruling like this be used as evidence in a criminal ruling? I am not a lawyer and not American.

    • Nougat@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Edit: Please read this child comment, where I describe how I am technically wrong.

      Well, it’s now on the record that those who Guiliani defamed were not involved in any “election rigging” in Georgia. That’s different from “the election in Georgia was not rigged” (even if that statement is also true).

      This ruling certainly eliminates some of the claimed “evidence” of “election rigging” that is being claimed. They continue to claim that other evidence exists, without producing said evidence, of course.

      • FlowVoid@midwest.social
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        Not exactly. It’s on the record that Giuliani failed to follow courtroom procedures and automatically lost the case.

        It was not necessary to determine whether anyone was involved in election rigging.

        • Nougat@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          That’s what I get for not reading the article.

          But, “He previously admitted that his statements were false and damaged Moss and Freeman’s reputations.” That still covers my earlier comment.

          Edit: Actually … no, it doesn’t. It means that Moss and Freeman were not involved in any “election rigging” in the way that Guiliani had publicly accused them, as opposed to not involved in any “election rigging” at all (even if they were not actually involved in any election rigging, and there is no evidence to show that they were).

      • That issue was resolved against him by sanction.

        In order for a judicial finding to have preclusive effect in another action, it must be between the same parties in the same configuration, or by parties parity or with like incentive to litigate, and have been actually litigated.

    • joe@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I could be wrong, but I’m pretty confident that you can’t use something with a lower standard of proof as evidence in a trial that requires a higher standard of proof. Civil cases only need to be proven by the standard “a preponderance of evidence”, whereas criminal trials are required to proven “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

      It’s probably okay in the other direction, though.

  • btaf45@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I love that lies now have consequences because conservatives are people who love to be lied to.

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      1 year ago

      I mean if you look at the Fox News/Dominion case … Fox viewers should know they’ve been lied to and manipulated. It’s crazy how little they care.

      • btaf45@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Conservatives are literally thrilled when people lie to them. To them, honesty is a vice and dishonesty is a virtue.

        • DragonTypeWyvern
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          All while screaming about 1984 because they can’t use racial and sexual slurs on Facebook.

      • NABDad@lemmy.world
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        In the words of my father when I pointed out one again that the horrible shit he emailed me about Obama was in fact false:

        “I don’t care. I hate them.”

        That’s it. The party of Hate and Fear. They don’t care what lies they are told as long as they believe it hurts the people they hate.

      • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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        1 year ago

        But though this is known, it wasn’t likely mentioned anywhere that they’d trust as news. Fox News certainly didn’t talk about it. I’m sure many of them have no idea about the outcome of that case.

      • Alien Nathan Edward@lemm.ee
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        He may have lied in this particular instance, but that lie serves a greater truth: I’m always right about everything and I should always get my way.

  • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
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    Two parts of this Order seem to be particularly in the “I’m sick of your crap, Rudy.” category:

    1. To ensure that the Giuliani Businesses reimburse plaintiffs’ attorneys fees associated with their successful motion to compel discovery from those Businesses, see Pls.’ Revised Mot. Compel Giuliani Partners & Giuliani Communications (“Pls.’ Giuliani Businesses Motion”), ECF No. 70, in the amount totaling $43,684, with interest on that amount to accrue from September 20, 2023 against defendant Rudolph W. Giuliani personally if his Businesses fail to timely comply;

    2. ORDERED that, as a sanction for defendant’s failure timely to reimburse plaintiffs’ $89,172.50 in attorneys’ fees by July 25, 2023, the jury will be instructed that they must, when determining an appropriate sum of punitive damages, infer that he is intentionally trying to hide relevant discovery about his financial assets for the purpose of artificially deflating his net worth, unless he produces fulsome responses to plaintiffs’ RFP Numbers 40 and 41 by September 20, 2023, in which case, the mandatory instruction may be converted to a permissive one.

    • theodewere@kbin.social
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      they must, when determining an appropriate sum of punitive damages, infer that he is intentionally trying to hide relevant discovery about his financial assets for the purpose of artificially deflating his net worth

      that sounds expensive

  • Kerrigor@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Why has he not been disbarred yet? What’s the point of that process existing if they don’t use it

    • Endorkend@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      He didn’t lose his mind.

      People like him (Trump too) pretended to be moderates or even Democrats, because that’s what was needed to fake it till you make it in New York.

      Once they didn’t need that anymore, the mask came off (granted, it had been slipping for a long time, especially with Trump who always looked exactly like he was, a narcissist only out for himself) and they showed themselves to be completely what they are. The most assbackward type of right wing self obsessed, self important narcissistic conmen imaginable.

    • hypelightfly@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      what happened to you. (Spoiler: Scotch and greed is a helluva drugs.)

      Nah, what happened was nothing. This is who he has always been.