Mr. Solomon handled it was correct - ask if they want your input and respect their answer.
You forgot step #3! Not whine about it online.
He offered, they declined, we didn’t need to hear about it. The only reason we heard about it is because he felt slighted, or is trying to make some anti-feminist point. I’m sad that he felt bad, but not everyone is going to want the free stuff you’re offering. That doesn’t make them bad people, or feminism a bad movement.
So if a female biologist who wrote a PHD thesis on the origins of RNA overheard some men talking about the origins of life and when the women wants to chime in because she is a subject matter expert, the men tell her they “don’t need a black woman’s explanation”. And after being told this she is in the wrong for venting online? Please. Your just as sexist as the people you claim to be opposed to.
You cannot in good faith compare people who have suffered because if their skin color to those who have not, when talking about situations where skin color comes up.
Are both situations racist by pure definition? Sure. Just like punching a man and punching a child are both punching. One is much more wrong.
One racially motivated act (say hitting someone because of their skin color) is not any more or less racist depending on the race of the victim. If you believe that, it is by definition a racist value you’re holding.
There’s a difference when it comes to contextual, social and historical factors. Like the word cracker is insensitive but doesn’t carry the hateful connotations and discrimination that the N-word possesses.
But anyone trying to say it’s more or less appropriate to hate on any single group is just demonstrating their own implicit and explicit racial biases.
It’s reductive to take that as saying “it’s more appropriate to hate on white people”. They worded it a bit poorly imo but the analogy they’re responding to is still crappy. There isn’t an issue of black women assuming white men don’t know the origins of RNA, but there is an issue of men assuming women don’t know anything about “nerdy” things like film. Obviously they assumed wrong with Ed Solomon, but the analogy is still in bad faith because it’s wouldn’t be for the same reason.
This specific situation described in this post is an issue of “women assuming that the man offering his take on a subject was ignorant about it and driven by machism” (as that’s exactly what they accused him off when they called his offer one of “mansplaining”).
(In fact what makes this a bit of a story is that rather than just saying “No thanks”, they instead explicitly accused him of offering an ignorant opinion driven by sexist)
Surelly both the “men assuming women don’t know anything about ‘nerdy’ things like film” and “women assuming that men offering their own take on a subject are ignorant and driven by sexism” are equally wrong?!
How is instantly presuming such bad things about other people purelly on the basis of the number of Y chromossomes they were born with, less sexist if its acting/voicing prejudice (quite literally: they prejudged the other person) from XX persons towards XY persons than if it is from XY persons towards XX persons?
It’s kinda the whole point of this whole comment thread: prejudice is prejudice and its discriminatory to excuse it for some people but not for others purelly on the bases of some having being born with certain characteristics and the others not.
You’re making a lot of assumptions about what I said. It doesn’t excuse it, I directly said they were wrong in this instance. My comment was directed towards the absurd comparison of women incorrectly assuming a white guy was mansplaining and a black woman who knows about the origins of RNA being dismissed. It’s really ignorant to equate the widespread, discriminatory assumption of women and black people being stupid and uneducated to two women not giving credit to the MIB writer lol. The former affects your education, livelihood, and career and the latter is funny at best and manufactured rage at worst. They are not at all equivalent.
I just want to clarify this again because this is just a Reddit-tier mentality that’s super brain dead: just because I’m saying this guy isn’t a tragic victim doesn’t mean I’m a crazy radical feminist that hates men.
As a brown person. It doesn’t matter what color you are. Someone’s race shouldn’t matter at all when comparing how fucked up something is unless it’s directly culturally relevant.
A white guy vs black woman RNA paper writing PhD being told gtfo is equally offensive. Race only matter like if you told the white guy vs black woman something like a joke about picking cotton or the white guy a joke about him fucking his sister.
Telling someone “you don’t matter / you are the enemy” for over a decade and to millions of people is how an actual white nationalist movement became a thing. You can only tell people how horrible and evil they are until they start to believe in it.
Mocking a culture that has been abused because of their culture (Jews) is worse than mocking a culture that has not been abused for their culture (Karens). But mocking white looking people for being white isn’t the same as their culture. It matters what you mock.
Don’t punch down. It’s not more complicated than that. And if you’re not sure if you’re punching down, don’t punch.
I was just saying that bc it seemed too cynical when you said we didn’t need to hear about it at all. I guess I don’t 100% know his intent either but there hasn’t been any reason to doubt it so far.
Yup, and it’s fine, until the guy above me starts to comment on their choice of words.
It can either be a funny note where we all laugh, or it can be an analysis of people’s word choice and reaction. When it’s the latter, his whining will be met by my whining, until all the whining stops :-P
Yeah, they misused the term.
You forgot step #3! Not whine about it online.
He offered, they declined, we didn’t need to hear about it. The only reason we heard about it is because he felt slighted, or is trying to make some anti-feminist point. I’m sad that he felt bad, but not everyone is going to want the free stuff you’re offering. That doesn’t make them bad people, or feminism a bad movement.
So if a female biologist who wrote a PHD thesis on the origins of RNA overheard some men talking about the origins of life and when the women wants to chime in because she is a subject matter expert, the men tell her they “don’t need a black woman’s explanation”. And after being told this she is in the wrong for venting online? Please. Your just as sexist as the people you claim to be opposed to.
You cannot in good faith compare people who have suffered because if their skin color to those who have not, when talking about situations where skin color comes up.
Are both situations racist by pure definition? Sure. Just like punching a man and punching a child are both punching. One is much more wrong.
Fuck all that noise…
One racially motivated act (say hitting someone because of their skin color) is not any more or less racist depending on the race of the victim. If you believe that, it is by definition a racist value you’re holding.
There’s a difference when it comes to contextual, social and historical factors. Like the word cracker is insensitive but doesn’t carry the hateful connotations and discrimination that the N-word possesses.
But anyone trying to say it’s more or less appropriate to hate on any single group is just demonstrating their own implicit and explicit racial biases.
It’s reductive to take that as saying “it’s more appropriate to hate on white people”. They worded it a bit poorly imo but the analogy they’re responding to is still crappy. There isn’t an issue of black women assuming white men don’t know the origins of RNA, but there is an issue of men assuming women don’t know anything about “nerdy” things like film. Obviously they assumed wrong with Ed Solomon, but the analogy is still in bad faith because it’s wouldn’t be for the same reason.
This specific situation described in this post is an issue of “women assuming that the man offering his take on a subject was ignorant about it and driven by machism” (as that’s exactly what they accused him off when they called his offer one of “mansplaining”).
(In fact what makes this a bit of a story is that rather than just saying “No thanks”, they instead explicitly accused him of offering an ignorant opinion driven by sexist)
Surelly both the “men assuming women don’t know anything about ‘nerdy’ things like film” and “women assuming that men offering their own take on a subject are ignorant and driven by sexism” are equally wrong?!
How is instantly presuming such bad things about other people purelly on the basis of the number of Y chromossomes they were born with, less sexist if its acting/voicing prejudice (quite literally: they prejudged the other person) from XX persons towards XY persons than if it is from XY persons towards XX persons?
It’s kinda the whole point of this whole comment thread: prejudice is prejudice and its discriminatory to excuse it for some people but not for others purelly on the bases of some having being born with certain characteristics and the others not.
You’re making a lot of assumptions about what I said. It doesn’t excuse it, I directly said they were wrong in this instance. My comment was directed towards the absurd comparison of women incorrectly assuming a white guy was mansplaining and a black woman who knows about the origins of RNA being dismissed. It’s really ignorant to equate the widespread, discriminatory assumption of women and black people being stupid and uneducated to two women not giving credit to the MIB writer lol. The former affects your education, livelihood, and career and the latter is funny at best and manufactured rage at worst. They are not at all equivalent.
I just want to clarify this again because this is just a Reddit-tier mentality that’s super brain dead: just because I’m saying this guy isn’t a tragic victim doesn’t mean I’m a crazy radical feminist that hates men.
As a brown person. It doesn’t matter what color you are. Someone’s race shouldn’t matter at all when comparing how fucked up something is unless it’s directly culturally relevant.
A white guy vs black woman RNA paper writing PhD being told gtfo is equally offensive. Race only matter like if you told the white guy vs black woman something like a joke about picking cotton or the white guy a joke about him fucking his sister.
Telling someone “you don’t matter / you are the enemy” for over a decade and to millions of people is how an actual white nationalist movement became a thing. You can only tell people how horrible and evil they are until they start to believe in it.
What if that person is white of Jewish origin? Or Irish? Heck, I know a Lebanese guy who’s whiter than me and has red hair…
Mocking a culture that has been abused because of their culture (Jews) is worse than mocking a culture that has not been abused for their culture (Karens). But mocking white looking people for being white isn’t the same as their culture. It matters what you mock.
Don’t punch down. It’s not more complicated than that. And if you’re not sure if you’re punching down, don’t punch.
It’s not anti-feminist to laugh at the irony of saying no to the MIB writer clarifying the origins of the story. It’s just a goofy story lol.
And if he wrote it to be a goofy story, then I’m with you. I don’t know his intent.
I was just saying that bc it seemed too cynical when you said we didn’t need to hear about it at all. I guess I don’t 100% know his intent either but there hasn’t been any reason to doubt it so far.
It’s a funny anecdote from the creator of Men in Black about being shut down for mansplaining the origins of Men in Black. Yikes.
Yup, and it’s fine, until the guy above me starts to comment on their choice of words.
It can either be a funny note where we all laugh, or it can be an analysis of people’s word choice and reaction. When it’s the latter, his whining will be met by my whining, until all the whining stops :-P