Hi, all.
As should be news to no one, polarization and animosity between conservatives and liberals is at one of its all-time highs in America right now. There’s even talk of a second civil war looming. Obviously, there are strong passions and convictions on both sides, and people on both sides have claimed that the other is a grave threat to the integrity of the nation itself. I’m familiar with the views and concerns of my own side: we view Donald Trump’s (and his allies’ and supporters’) statements and actions as being an attack on the democratic process that defines our nation, and are worried that the strategies and tactics he and they are employing will make future elections farcical, paving the way for an authoritarian state (a dictatorship). I am less familiar with why conservatives feel Democrats and liberals are a threat to the nation and its integrity in similar fashion. My best guess is that conservatives buy Trump’s assertions that the 2020 presidential election was rigged, and thus might have similar fears as liberals do, but I also get the sense conservatives have deeper, older concerns than this, and that Trump was/is viewed as a solution to them.
Can you please try to articulate here what those fears are? And, to any liberals reading this, please refrain from answering in conservatives’ stead. I’m interested in their opinions, not your opinions of their opinions.
I’m not a conservative, but I think I can fairly articulate their views. Actual conservatives can correct me where they see fit.
As many of them are ostensibly concerned with law and order, the Constitution is the bedrock of American law and order. Liberal attacks on the second amendment with gun control laws and on the first amendment, by characterizing hate speech and trying to get social media companies to police it, undermine the representation the Constitution affords every American citizen. Liberals seem willing to undermine the constitutional foundation of the country in order to “push an agenda”. That’s why Biden is often portrayed as an unlawful government executive that gratuitously overreaches the limits of his office. Similarly, being worried about the strategies and tactics that Trump and other Republican politicians use is fine, but indicting them four times, and throwing people in jail for “inciting violence” is considered much too far for the conservative. Using the law in that way weaponizes it against people earnestly defending their beliefs, and is viewed as a slippery slope into authoritarianism.
Economic policy is another huge area of concern for the conservative. Dedicated to American free enterprise, which is axiomatically the optimal way to produce and distribute resources unless proven otherwise, economic policies that interfere with the invisible hand actively harm the population. So, for example, sure, a wealth tax would redistribute wealth and maybe provide free school lunches for kids. But what is the opportunity cost? More sophisticated conservative economic analysis (like that from AEI, Cato, the Heritage Foundation, or similar) often focus on the potential of lost benefits of leftist economic policy. Wealth redistribution, for the conservative, is like cutting your foot off to run faster due too lost weight. Leftist economic policy undermines the economic security of the nation.
And social policy is a huge concern, too. The whole crisis of masculinity is a example, where they believe young boys and men are taught to hate who they intrinsically are. Conversely, transgender people invert and poison the “natural order”. Such social policies undermine the United States in multiple ways, but the biggest is cultivating “weakness”. Boys and men who are taught that masculinity is toxic won’t be there to enact the necessary violence against aggressors in their personal lives, let alone be there for the nation when the time for war comes. They won’t have the ability to overcome challenges, which all men face. Instead, they’ll lean into their feelings and sulk in depression because the masculinity required, they’ll be taught, can hurt them and those around them. That is, for the conservative, social policy is like caring for others at the expense of the self; it’s collectivism. And by not encouraging and cultivating the uniquely American individualistic masculinity that’s made us a super power in the few centuries we’ve been a country, it puts the global American hegemony at risk, which could be catastrophic for the world.
There’s more. But those are probably the most salient issues that I can think of off the top of my head.
I’d like to know too. To me, liberals want clean air, safe food, livable wages and working conditions. They want to marry who they love, ensure education for all and make healthcare affordable and available. They sound like monsters!
I always thought conservative were scared: they’re scared that their lifestyle is in danger, because they think that the other side will do like them. This means they are scared that Muslim will force them to do Ramadan or excision. They’re scared that lgbt will force them into lgbt. They’re scared that they will be poor if the current poor aren’t anymore. They’re scared that they will have to work if their children aren’t working enough.
Fear is what drives them IMO. And violence and coercion is the only solution they know, which fuel their fear, because they fear the other side is as bad as they are.
Media will do whatever they can to fuel these fears too. Honestly, I would execute or exile the people leading the far right media. They are traitors who manipulate and lie on a large scale, they are the largest threat to western countries today.
This explains their obsession with guns and personal property, they feel so out of control on big issues, they get hyper vigilant on whatever they can control.
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Forget Trump for the purpose of this question, because he’s divisive, and many conservatives don’t fully support him.
The general answer to your question is that Progressivism is designed to destroy the USA by gradually eroding traditional values, and then progressively moving on to erode more. That’s the entire point of Progressivism.
I’ll spare you the book-length answer that unpacks that idea into a long list of examples.
The general answer to your question is that Progressivism is designed to destroy the USA by gradually eroding traditional values, and then progressively moving on to erode more. That’s the entire point of Progressivism.
When this country was founded, many people held the values that Black people should be slaves and women shouldn’t be allowed to vote. Assuming you don’t hold those values, doesn’t that go against the idea that all traditional values are good and shouldn’t be changed? Furthermore, the Founding Fathers intentionally created ways for laws and even the constitution to be changed, so isn’t it fair to say they intended for progressivism to have an avenue to change things? Your answer seems overly generalized. I asked my question operating on the assumption that there were specific fears conservatives have today about how liberals are trying to do things they feel will destroy the country. Do you think you could give me those specifics?
My answer was generalized because I do not care to get into the specifics. I’m sorry, I know that seems dismissive. But I wasn’t kidding when I said “book-length”. You’re proposing an extremely long and detailed discussion. Maybe someone else will bite, but it won’t be me. Not today. I stand behind my generalization fwiw, and I’ll leave it at that.
Fair enough. Thanks for responding at least. (BTW, it wasn’t me who downvoted your comment.)
Downvotes don’t federate, so I don’t see it. At least they don’t yet. But even if they did, I’m used to downvotes. My reputation here on kbin is -2178, which is over 800 closer to 0 than it used to be. Whee! That’s just for expressing Christian conservative perspectives. Not exactly popular in the Fediverse, or at least not on kbin.
Anyway, thank you for understanding.
No problem. I joined Lemmy.world when Reddit pulled 3rd party apps and I’ve noticed that this place seems a haven for far-left types, communists/anarchists, etc. I’m a liberal, but a lot more moderate than those types, so I get a fair bit of digital hate for disagreeing as well. Such is the nature of upvote/downvote systems.
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Dude, don’t be a dick.
I mean, he could have used lighter words but the contents of the reply couldn’t have really changed. Conservatives at this point, maga conservatives expecially, are well beyond reason. I can’t see how can they be recovered from the pit of hate and despair they dug themselves in since they are the ones defending their “right” to be left in the ignorance hole they so much love and enjoy.
Personally I am not for eugenetic politics but, should I ever have a daughter to take care of, one of the lessons I’ll make sure to pass her will be to avoid as much as possible to mingle with someone having any right-leaning believes. They need to stop reproducing
At least us right leaning people know what a woman is without needing a biology degree…
Oh yeah?
Then tell me and school me, what is a woman?
I’m all ears
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Still waiting for your definition of woman. To be such a clear concept to you you are taking your sweet time providing me with a simple description of a woman.
Are you scared to write one down? Well, I get it, must be hard realizing life is much more complex than what your cult leaders are selling you…
Though luck, I hope to find a more prepared right-winger for my next discussion
Taking 4 days so far to come up with that definition.
“Im a right wing fascist because of my gender ideology”
I just don’t bother with trolls that fail to realize how stupid they look to the rest of the world. A woman is an adult FEMALE person. It’s quite simple really. Also, not everyone thinks lemmy is the most important thing in the world, some of us only login once or twice a week. You should go touch grass or find a hobby. You are way too obsessed for your own good.
I dont bother with trolls
Is a troll
alrighty then
I know. I’m a troll for stating all the obvious facts instead of just agreeing with the little talking heads. You should go get vaxed some more.
A woman is an adult FEMALE person.
So you think this person is a woman?
They don’t look like a woman to me. You can’t honestly tell me that a straight man would find this person sexually attractive. Seems to me that it is the conservatives that are confused.
Nah, I deal with the idiots too much to have patience anymore. Find someone else to cry to.