• Arete@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    For full context, Israel says 10,000 are Hamas soldiers. It’s super disingenuous for the Gaza health ministry (Hamas) to lump military and civilian deaths together like they do. And I know, you’re literally frothing at the mouth to inform me how all Israeli’s are liars and all Palestinians are angels. I’m not going to read any responses.

    • Marshmellow@lemdro.idOP
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      9 months ago

      For fuller context, Israel lies about everything.

      I’m not going to read any responses.

      Classic cult tactic.

      • Fitik@fedia.io
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        9 months ago

        For fuller context, Israel lies about everything

        Lmao, what an answer, you haven’t even came back with an answer

        Also HAMAS admitted it have lost at least 6 000, while IDF talks about 12 000, and you know that HAMAS obviously wants everyone to think that their losses as a low as possible, so 10k seems realistic to me

        • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Out of the 28,775 people killed it’s reported that

          12,300 are children, and

          8,400 are women.

          That leaves about 8,075 men

        • Atin@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          The US led invasion of Iraq had approximately 655,000 civilian deaths according to the Lancet. The Chechen war had about 80,000. 10,000 in an area with a much higher density is relatively low.

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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      9 months ago

      Your comment sounds like it’s justifying killing 2 civilians for everyone 1 soldier. Even assuming your number is correct, it doesn’t really matter. It’s just as bad.

      • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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        9 months ago

        Hamas is partly to blame for the following reasons:

        1. They use human shield tactics

        2. They haven’t built bomb shelters (edit: for civilians)

        3. They have no civilian evacuation plans

        4. They appear to actively stop people from evacuating

        Also, the population density in Gaza is one of the highest ones in the world. Which is really nobody’s fault I guess, but makes the number of civilian deaths worse, especially given the above 4 points.

          • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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            9 months ago

            I should’ve written: “They haven’t built bomb shelters for civilians”

            Is it shocking to learn this? It seems so absurd that you cannot believe it?

            I kinda agree.

      • Fitik@fedia.io
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        9 months ago

        Why it doesn’t matter?

        As a point of reference, according to the UN, civilians usually make up around 90 percent of casualties in war. That’s a 1:9 ratio (one combatant for every nine civilians).

        https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm

        It shows that it’s low, and Israel does care about civilians, a shame that civilians die in the first place, but that what war is, especially considering HAMAS fighters a lot of times wear civilian clothing and don’t follow the laws of war

        • iain@feddit.nl
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          9 months ago

          especially considering HAMAS fighters a lot of times wear civilian clothing and don’t follow the laws of war

          Sure, Hamas should paint giant targets on their backs and face the Israelis in an open field, mano-a-mano.

          As long as Israel doesn’t recognize Palestine as an independent state, I don’t see why Palestinian freedom fighters, Hamas or otherwise, should behave like they’re the official army of an independent state.

    • Minotaur@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      Is that… supposed to be numbers in Israel’s favor? That for every one militant they kill they only kill 1.9 women and children and noncombatants?

      That’s just absolutely insane. And that’s with what I’m going to assume is an extremely favorable estimation on Israel’s part

      • Fitik@fedia.io
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        9 months ago

        That’s literally one of the “best” ratios for urban warfare in modern conflicts tho? It’s a shame that the war is even there, but the numbers are “in Israel favor”, Gaza is densely populated, and this is a full scale war.

        • Minotaur@lemm.ee
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          9 months ago

          That’s simply not true. You might be basing your opinion on the widespread (but almost entirely made up) statistic that “90% of war casualties are civilians”.

          Add in that this is no longer 1945 or whatever and you have to come to terms that the death toll is so high largely because the IDF is one of if not the most profoundly cowardly militaries on the planet

    • wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works
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      9 months ago

      It’s super disingenuous for the Gaza health ministry (Hamas) to lump military and civilian deaths together like they do

      So you think it is disingenuous of Israel to have lumped the more than half military and police deaths, let alone the civilians they killed themselves, in the list of deaths on October 7th? At least those death were, according to international law, actually legal.

      • bartolomeo@suppo.fi
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        9 months ago

        How do you count people who are active reservists? Are they considered civilian or combatants?

    • The Octonaut@mander.xyz
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      9 months ago

      And famously, once you kill enough terrorists and take enough land, the rest sort of say “OK fair dues” and there are no more terrorists ever