People shouldn’t be hunting in the first place. Toxic masculinity (toxic humanity really) thinks killing/exerting power over a weaker innocent is a good thing though
Unless you’re vegan, I don’t think you have a good argument against hunting from a moral perspective. Hunters also are some of the biggest donators to wildlife conservation.
of course I’m vegan, at this point not being vegan is the b12 deficient thing to do. Compassion for all sentient beings is the next ethical step humanity needs to take.
Only because something is not of any use for you, does not mean that everyone else is sharing the same experience. You could go out there and talk with hunters why they hunt and what they get out of it. I would not hunt, because I don’t like guns - but fishing can be a really neat experience, especially a neat bonding experience with your father.
No one calls a lion hunting violence. it’s the circle of life. If the argument is it’s violence because it’s unnecessary well we need to bring back the wolves and solve world hunger before ill be on your side of that argument.
I remember the scene in the Orville where the guy felt eating animals akin to murder. Yeah in that kind of universe i can support it but we are not there yet.
Anyone hunting for sport alone should do so with a blade, its only more sportsman. It’s not like the deer has a projectile weapon.
A lion hunting is violence. The circle of life is violent. I agree hunting isn’t the top priority of problems to solve, but people should at least be able to call it what it is and recognize it’s not a good thing
I like to consider plant eating an act of violence. I Just ripped and tear into those yummy plant heads that were just living thier best life.
If we go with this definition, then violence is a part of life and we just accept it as a necessity. It also means it is our moral duty to ensure the animals we eat are not wasted, not suffer unnecessarily, and appreciate the life that was taken so we can do more with our own.
It’s only bad if it serves no purpose and is wasteful.
In some sense it is violence, but in another sense violence against a baby doll is fine while violence against a live baby is not. One of the key differences is the baby is sentient, the doll is not. The doll can not experience the violence, so it’s morally irrelevant. The baby can experience the violence, so it is morally unacceptable. To the best of my knowledge plants can’t feel pain, so violence to them is morally irrelevant.
But I still accept that harm is unavoidable (at least in our time), but our response should be to minimize harm, not throw up our hands and give up and perpetuate the injustice
In the west most people hunt for fun of it, let’s be honest. Personally I don’t think there is anything wrong with it as long as it’s done in sustainable way.
i don’t have the stats, but if I had to bet, I’d bet that most people do not hunt for that reason, and they end up spending more than they would otherwise
also, almost nobody in the US needs to eat cows or any other animals. Lentils are cheaper than all of the above, and that’s without looking at externalities like climate impact
Growing up rural and poor, venison was the difference between everyone eating well or my parents having to skip meals. A box of shotgun shells cost $10 and if we took 2 or 3 deer it would be enough to fill a chest freezer and last most of the year, also we would trade it with local farmers for vegetables and watermen for seafood.
White tail deer must be killed, we have broken their habitat.
Over the last 400 years Millions of acres of Forrest have been converted to planes and farmland, and most of the large North American predators have been killed.
So instead of deer having to forrage in Forrest they can be eat more effectively by grazing, and without natural predators like wolves the deer population can grow unchecked. Deer will reproduce until the area can’t support the population leading to starvation. Also the deer population has let them spread to new areas where they can out compeat animals like moose, elk, and caraboo, causing the larger animals population to plummet.
We shouldn’t cull humans for the obvious ethical reasons
nor should we cull other species, for the obvious ethical reasons. If your solution to a problem is “kill until it’s not a problem anymore”, guess what, that’s not good enough
Yeah, I mean when you look at how much suffering humans cause despite all our intelligence it’s not that hard to be jaded. Even then, at least for me, it’s a lot easier to empathize with humans than other species. It’s also a lot easier for me to empathize with humans in my social circles than humans I don’t know.
it bothers me when people arbitrarily limit who they’ll empathize with.
A processed deer including tag, skinning, and butchering ends with 70lbs and costs about $300. 70lbs of processed beef costs $800-900. You can cut those prices in half if you butcher the deer yourself or buy a primal beef and butcher that yourself.
We wiped out their natural predators to protect livestock and pets. Leaving deer population unchecked leads to crop destruction(incliding soy and lentils) as well as deer suffering from famine.
Cows are absolutely an environmental nightmare and factory farmed in an abhorrent manner. Deer that are part of the natural ecosystem and lived nice and mostly healthy natural lives free of steroids and antibiotics are not abused ecological nightmares.
Lentils require many acres of farmland that ruin the local ecology, far more if you grow them without pesticides and fertilizers that cause their own ecological disasters including the loss of insect populations and algae or plankton blooms that release carbon and kill ocean and river ecology. Can’t harvest all of those lentils without 3rd world near slave labor or carbon emitting farm equipment. Harvesting pesticides, GMO, and fertilizer free crops without carbon emitting machinery by using fair wage paid people would increase the cost of the end product to far exceed viability.
Hunting is cheaper and more ethical than factory farms and veganism. Advocate insect farming as an ethical, sustainable, and environmental food source instead of ruining the environment with misguided vegan or vegitarianism.
If deer overpopulation is the problem, catch-neuter-release is more ethical than killing them.
I don’t know the specifics on lentils, but if we stopped feeding so damn much of our crops to other animals, we wouldn’t need so much cropland and it wouldn’t be as big of a problem and we could use better practices on the land we do grow crops on. I don’t remember the exact number, but something like 80% of the soy we grow gets fed to exploited animals. And when you look at trophic levels, it makes sense. Only like 10% of the energy from one level makes it to the next, so eating other animals will always be inefficient and unsustainable on a mass scale. If everyone hunted and ate the same amount of dead animals as they do now it would be catastrophic for local ecosystems.
it always amazes me when people would rather eat insects than plants. Grasping at any straw to avoid eating your veggies
I know your augment is ethical but its easier to catch a neuter cats since they literally come up to me feeding them. Cat traps are small and they just walk right in and then we bring them to a vet.
Deer kind of run away so shooting on sight and eating them seems more efficient. I know Staten island was sterilizing them and it was expensive. 3.3mil to bring down pop 700 deer in 3 years seems like alot. Of course, if hunters are not eating the deer that’s a dbag move if they killed it.
I never heard anyone wanting to eat bugs unless it’s shrimp and the like. That crazy if you know people like that. eat salad people!
I knew a guy who refused to eat fruit. Like wtf man.
Yeah, doing the right thing is usually more expensive. Doesn’t mean it’s not worth it
i usually hear it in discussions like this, where people think cheap, sustainable, high protein, plant based foods are lacking. Beans and nuts and legumes are right there lol
Yeah shame we live in a system where we have to make the choice. Personally, I think the money is better on human birth control. Takes longer to see results but reducing human pop to only wanted planned children will yield more environmental bonuses.
Lol “plant protein lacking! Alpha only eats bugs!” Naaa I’ll take nuts and beans.
People shouldn’t be hunting in the first place. Toxic masculinity (toxic humanity really) thinks killing/exerting power over a weaker innocent is a good thing though
Unless you’re vegan, I don’t think you have a good argument against hunting from a moral perspective. Hunters also are some of the biggest donators to wildlife conservation.
of course I’m vegan, at this point not being vegan is the b12 deficient thing to do. Compassion for all sentient beings is the next ethical step humanity needs to take.
Also, conserving it so they can do what exactly?
Continue sustainable hunting?
Continue killing unnecessarily. Continue needless violence
Only because something is not of any use for you, does not mean that everyone else is sharing the same experience. You could go out there and talk with hunters why they hunt and what they get out of it. I would not hunt, because I don’t like guns - but fishing can be a really neat experience, especially a neat bonding experience with your father.
you can bond, get out in nature, etc, all without hurting fish
Or you can do it with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_N7RJSmcNo
No one calls a lion hunting violence. it’s the circle of life. If the argument is it’s violence because it’s unnecessary well we need to bring back the wolves and solve world hunger before ill be on your side of that argument. I remember the scene in the Orville where the guy felt eating animals akin to murder. Yeah in that kind of universe i can support it but we are not there yet.
Anyone hunting for sport alone should do so with a blade, its only more sportsman. It’s not like the deer has a projectile weapon.
A lion hunting is violence. The circle of life is violent. I agree hunting isn’t the top priority of problems to solve, but people should at least be able to call it what it is and recognize it’s not a good thing
I like to consider plant eating an act of violence. I Just ripped and tear into those yummy plant heads that were just living thier best life. If we go with this definition, then violence is a part of life and we just accept it as a necessity. It also means it is our moral duty to ensure the animals we eat are not wasted, not suffer unnecessarily, and appreciate the life that was taken so we can do more with our own. It’s only bad if it serves no purpose and is wasteful.
In some sense it is violence, but in another sense violence against a baby doll is fine while violence against a live baby is not. One of the key differences is the baby is sentient, the doll is not. The doll can not experience the violence, so it’s morally irrelevant. The baby can experience the violence, so it is morally unacceptable. To the best of my knowledge plants can’t feel pain, so violence to them is morally irrelevant.
But I still accept that harm is unavoidable (at least in our time), but our response should be to minimize harm, not throw up our hands and give up and perpetuate the injustice
People hunt because it is cheaper and more ethical than cow.
In the west most people hunt for fun of it, let’s be honest. Personally I don’t think there is anything wrong with it as long as it’s done in sustainable way.
i don’t have the stats, but if I had to bet, I’d bet that most people do not hunt for that reason, and they end up spending more than they would otherwise
also, almost nobody in the US needs to eat cows or any other animals. Lentils are cheaper than all of the above, and that’s without looking at externalities like climate impact
Growing up rural and poor, venison was the difference between everyone eating well or my parents having to skip meals. A box of shotgun shells cost $10 and if we took 2 or 3 deer it would be enough to fill a chest freezer and last most of the year, also we would trade it with local farmers for vegetables and watermen for seafood.
deleted by creator
I can understand why people with no other choice would hunt. If there are other options though, it’s unnecessary killing and violence
White tail deer must be killed, we have broken their habitat.
Over the last 400 years Millions of acres of Forrest have been converted to planes and farmland, and most of the large North American predators have been killed.
So instead of deer having to forrage in Forrest they can be eat more effectively by grazing, and without natural predators like wolves the deer population can grow unchecked. Deer will reproduce until the area can’t support the population leading to starvation. Also the deer population has let them spread to new areas where they can out compeat animals like moose, elk, and caraboo, causing the larger animals population to plummet.
Do you think the same strategy should be applied to feral housecats? How about overpopulating humans?
This is apples to oranges to cucumbers.
We probably should cull and/or spay feral cats because they do have a large measurable ecological impact.
We shouldn’t cull humans for the obvious ethical reasons, but we should try harder to treat the planet right.
Exactly, domestic cats are native to northern Africa, and have become an invasive species every where else.
nor should we cull other species, for the obvious ethical reasons. If your solution to a problem is “kill until it’s not a problem anymore”, guess what, that’s not good enough
There are plenty of programs out there to capture and spay/neuter feral cats.
Exactly
It’s always bothering me when people don’t have more empathy towards their fellow humans than to other spices.
Yeah, I mean when you look at how much suffering humans cause despite all our intelligence it’s not that hard to be jaded. Even then, at least for me, it’s a lot easier to empathize with humans than other species. It’s also a lot easier for me to empathize with humans in my social circles than humans I don’t know.
it bothers me when people arbitrarily limit who they’ll empathize with.
A processed deer including tag, skinning, and butchering ends with 70lbs and costs about $300. 70lbs of processed beef costs $800-900. You can cut those prices in half if you butcher the deer yourself or buy a primal beef and butcher that yourself.
We wiped out their natural predators to protect livestock and pets. Leaving deer population unchecked leads to crop destruction(incliding soy and lentils) as well as deer suffering from famine.
Cows are absolutely an environmental nightmare and factory farmed in an abhorrent manner. Deer that are part of the natural ecosystem and lived nice and mostly healthy natural lives free of steroids and antibiotics are not abused ecological nightmares.
Lentils require many acres of farmland that ruin the local ecology, far more if you grow them without pesticides and fertilizers that cause their own ecological disasters including the loss of insect populations and algae or plankton blooms that release carbon and kill ocean and river ecology. Can’t harvest all of those lentils without 3rd world near slave labor or carbon emitting farm equipment. Harvesting pesticides, GMO, and fertilizer free crops without carbon emitting machinery by using fair wage paid people would increase the cost of the end product to far exceed viability.
Hunting is cheaper and more ethical than factory farms and veganism. Advocate insect farming as an ethical, sustainable, and environmental food source instead of ruining the environment with misguided vegan or vegitarianism.
If deer overpopulation is the problem, catch-neuter-release is more ethical than killing them.
I don’t know the specifics on lentils, but if we stopped feeding so damn much of our crops to other animals, we wouldn’t need so much cropland and it wouldn’t be as big of a problem and we could use better practices on the land we do grow crops on. I don’t remember the exact number, but something like 80% of the soy we grow gets fed to exploited animals. And when you look at trophic levels, it makes sense. Only like 10% of the energy from one level makes it to the next, so eating other animals will always be inefficient and unsustainable on a mass scale. If everyone hunted and ate the same amount of dead animals as they do now it would be catastrophic for local ecosystems.
it always amazes me when people would rather eat insects than plants. Grasping at any straw to avoid eating your veggies
I know your augment is ethical but its easier to catch a neuter cats since they literally come up to me feeding them. Cat traps are small and they just walk right in and then we bring them to a vet. Deer kind of run away so shooting on sight and eating them seems more efficient. I know Staten island was sterilizing them and it was expensive. 3.3mil to bring down pop 700 deer in 3 years seems like alot. Of course, if hunters are not eating the deer that’s a dbag move if they killed it.
I never heard anyone wanting to eat bugs unless it’s shrimp and the like. That crazy if you know people like that. eat salad people! I knew a guy who refused to eat fruit. Like wtf man.
Yeah, doing the right thing is usually more expensive. Doesn’t mean it’s not worth it
i usually hear it in discussions like this, where people think cheap, sustainable, high protein, plant based foods are lacking. Beans and nuts and legumes are right there lol
Yeah shame we live in a system where we have to make the choice. Personally, I think the money is better on human birth control. Takes longer to see results but reducing human pop to only wanted planned children will yield more environmental bonuses.
Lol “plant protein lacking! Alpha only eats bugs!” Naaa I’ll take nuts and beans.