Good. Now also please give them the needed financial support
My question is why is the US rejecting anything, isn’t that a war between Russia and Ukraine?
That’s the reason they’re rejecting it. From the article:
“Barring a Ukrainian demand signal” for peace talks, “there’s unlikely to be a push from Washington,” he said.
There’s no negotiation needed. Russia moving out of Ukraine and paying for all damage until everything is pre crimea. If that is all done, rebuild and paid for, then, they can negotiate for less punishment on top. That’s the kind of negotiation you start because both sides have something to gain and not one to keep his unjustified war territory.
Even if there is no punishment on top, if Putin ends up losing all he gained, heads will roll including Putin’s. If he can gain any amount of land in a negotiation and end the war, he can go back to his people and say that it was all worth it and many of them will buy it.
Edit: *many
Why hasn’t the cancer killed the mother fucker already?
Because that was always a propaganda piece, probably.
See, there’s this slow motion guillotine hanging over Putin right now, and for each month of successive losses, it’ll slowly be lowered until it reaches his neck.
Then, after a new favourite of the oligarchy and the generals have rubbed a few backs and made a few promises, said favourite will come up from behind and place his foot on the blade to force it through Putin’s neck.
That’s only speculation though.
Removed by mod
Dude, the war has been over for over a year, Ukraine lost, they were never going to win, it was just the west trying to use their dead bodies to damage russia.
Russia have lost nearly 400,000 people so far. They’ve crippled their economy and industry, not to mention scuppered any progress they made since the 90s. Ruined their growth in international standing and currently bending over for China and getting reamed on tech for the war by Iran. They have lost countless flagship military installments and their hold over the black sea.
In the nearly 10 years since their initial invasion they have captured no more than 20% of Ukraine most of which was captured in 2014s Crimean annexation.
Ruined their growth in international standing
They’ve ruined their standing with the imperial core, while their standing with the semi-periphery and periphery has grown.
They’ve crippled their economy and industry
Their industrial capacity has been untouched, and is in fact growing. The Ruble is doing alright, too.
Bloomberg: Russian Manufacturing Booms With Economy on War FootingRussian industry expanded for the third straight year in 2023 as the government’s spending on its prolonged war on Ukraine helped counter the impact of sanctions imposed by the US and its allies.
Industrial production increased by 3.5% last year after 0.6% growth in 2022, according to data published Wednesday by the Federal Statistics Service. The rise in manufacturing among industries benefiting from military orders last year more than offset a slump in mining output, data show.
The figures show businesses have adapted to “the current external economic conditions,” the Economy Ministry said in a statement late Wednesday.
The scale of Russia’s transition into a war economy was underlined by the three fastest-growing categories of manufacturing — which include goods such as bombs and weapons, aircraft and rocket engines, and ships and combat vehicles. Output under categories like “metal goods,” “computers, electronics and optics,” and “other transport” jumped by as much as a third compared to 2022.
The 1.3% drop from last year in output from extraction industries, like mining, oil and gas, was largely due to a voluntary reduction in oil production, the Economy Ministry said in a separate statement. Russia, in coordination with its OPEC+ allies, pledged last year to reduce its crude production and maintain the cuts through 2024. The country stopped disclosing data on oil output last year.
The latest data offer some support for recent claims by Russian officials that the country has boosted its military production despite efforts by the Group of Seven and the European Union to break the Kremlin’s war machine through stringent sanctions including an oil price cap. Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Monday that production of missiles for air defense systems had doubled, without providing figures. Previously, he said tank production had also increased by seven times.
The Kremlin plans to keep the economy on a war footing for at least the next three years, according to its budget plans, ramping up spending on arms production. That’s as Ukraine is running short of weapons to protect its cities, and vital aid from the US and the EU has been tied up by political disputes.
The war, now approaching its third year, has settled into a stalemate, making a steady supply of weapons and munitions crucial to both sides.
Russian defense plants have been put on round-the-clock production schedules, and reports abound in local media of converted shopping centers and bakeries that now also manufacture military drones. Kalashnikov Concern, Russia’s flagship arms manufacturer, has developed new types of weapons that it plans to present at the World Defense Show 2024 in Saudi Arabia next week, according to state defense-industry conglomerate Rostec.
Russia has also lined up supplies of weapons and other support from Iran and North Korea. Satellite imagery since October shows a steady flow of trade between North Korea and Russia that South Korea estimates includes more than 2 million rounds of artillery and several ballistic missiles.
They spent a long time building relationships across Europe, growing ties with the west. From sports sponsorships, to infrastructure partnerships to joint ventures like the ISS. They threw all of it away.
They also made a balls of the invasion, embarrassing themselves, losing a huge amount of high ranking officials and pissed off China in doing so.
They have tacit support from India because India is getting flooded with cheap oil but that won’t last forever as the Saudis get more and more annoyed and the US continues to ramp up production.
And their operations in Africa are hampered by an international warrant meaning Putin can’t attend meetings of their new “bloc”.
They are on a war footing, war booms the economy but their currency is artificially inflated and they have hemorrhaged young graduates and skilled professionals.so manufacturing might be up because every available man is getting paid a pittance to shove artillery together but the workers left in country fear conscription and can’t afford eggs.
They spent a long time building relationships across Europe, growing ties with the west.
Yes, they did, and they’ve finally figured out that it was a fool’s errand all along, because the US has always wanted Russia to be nothing more than a gas station. Now they’ve abandoned the garden and embraced the jungle.
How much ground has Russia gained in the last year?
Also, remember when Russia said they’d get to Kyiv in 2 days? It’s been a long 2 days.
The border has changed very little since I think fall of 2022 if I am remembering right. The important thing is that the median or mean age of soldiers for Ukraine has gone from low 30s to 43. They are out of troops, its over.
Removed by mod
#BlueAnon report:
- Reporter: [REDACTED]
- Reason: Russky spy, no /s so prolly serious)
Sorry they are bugging you, but what I am saying is 100% fact based.
I only post it to share the lulz.
How many reports do you get in the average day?
Not sure, a few dozen it feels like; less than a hundred I think. We usually get a few Chinese or Russian shill/troll/bot complaints from the MSNBC-pilled.
I feel like we are very similar in our understanding, but we ended up on two different side of the spectrum, where I think the government is the problem, and you think the government is the solution.
Has Putin actually called for negotiations? An off-hand comment in a Tucker Carlson interview doesn’t seem quite like a serious offer.
Also it seems like Ukraine and ukrainians are still pretty much supporting war against Russian aggression: https://news.gallup.com/poll/512258/ukrainians-stand-behind-war-effort-despite-fatigue.aspx
The negotiation is get the fuck out of Ukraine you blithering waste of flesh.
All part of the attempt to sway the next election. Gives Cucker Tarlson an interview where he (Putin) proceeds to paint all of his actions as a poor humble Russian leader just trying to protect his own people from the big bad Ukranians. Then follows it up with an offer to negotiate peace, which shockingly the evil dictator Biden refuses to do. If only we had someone like the Cheeto Benito who’s interested in peace leading the US, everything would be so much better for everyone! Queue troll farm spamming Twitter
based US
It is just going to have more death with no gain, how is that based?
what kind of monster calls freeing your people from oppression, torture, and murder “no gain”?
Because its not doing that, they already lost.
Removed by mod
accusations of being turned on by children are a calling card of fascists
For the same reason people now associate conspiracy theories with the right when it started out as left-wing callouts. It’s too dangerous when used against them, so they sullied the concept so that nobody could use it.
Negotiations with terrorists and war criminals famously go swimmingly.
What do you recommend?
Russia go home. They are an old school relic of an empire.
They are not going home so what is an actual other solution?
Keep letting them know they are dying for nothing. They are close to getting it.
I dont think it helps, none of the soldiers on either side have a say in anything.
U.S. and Ukrainian officials say that the best Ukraine’s military can hope for in the coming year, especially without more American aid, is to defend its current positions. Even so, Biden officials say they are not entertaining the idea of pressing Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, to negotiate with Mr. Putin.
This is the most eloquent. If you can’t fight a war for win, then it’s reasonable to try to gain some better results through negotiations. But the white masters don’t care about the losses of aboriginals.
Are you implying that white masters exist and implying that a European country can’t decide what’s better for it without consulting with white masters at the same time? Can I say that you are brainwashed by black masters?
Sorry… Are Ukrainians the aboriginals in this scenario or are the Russians the aboriginals?
Because I’m pretty sure they’re both descended from Slavs and Vikings.
Not a single paragraph about the actual demands of Russia. Which they have stated often enough. Basically they don’t want NATO right on their doorstep. This is what this whole war was about. But somehow this is never seriously discussed in western media.
Then turning Ukraine into Russian territory is a bit counter productive no? That would literally bring NATO to Russias doorstep.
They want a buffer zone. Makes sense in terms of military strategy.
It is discussed, it doesn’t stand up to any reasoning as to why they captured the Crimean peninsula. They also stated that it was because Ukraine couldn’t stop the rise of Nazism. So which is it? NATO or Nazis?
Ukraine is an independent country and if they want to join NATO they can, having a legitimate grievance doesn’t excuse an invasion.
And even if it was true and was accepted, what a disaster it was because it bolstered a floundering NATO, grew membership and increased military spending across the continent. Truly a genius move.
So which is it? NATO or Nazis?
Hitler’s chief of staff was never prosecuted and later became NATO chief of staff. Many such cases.
Nazism wasn’t defeated by the US, it was successfully internationalized by them.
But NATO already is on their doorstep. Norway, Estonia, Poland etc. Even USA is only a few mils away across the Bering Strait.
This is not about Ukraine joining NATO, that’s a convenience.
Basically they don’t want NATO right on their doorstep.
NATO is not the anti-Russia club. They’re a defensive pact. Why would you be concerned about your neighbours agreeing to defend each other? Like a neighbourhood watch, perhaps. Maybe you’d be upset if you’re planning to do the thing they’re defending against. Which is all the more reason for those neighbours to band together.
NATO was founded pretty much explicitly as the anti-USSR club. And it doesn’t even matter what it factually is - it’s what Russia perceives it as. See their final ultimatum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin’s_December_2021_ultimatum
That’s how Putin claims to perceive it, but that’s also what he would claim if his actual goal was to control his neighbours by force. And don’t forget Finland and Sweden responded to the invasion of Ukraine by joining NATO. If Russia perceived NATO as a threat, then Finland joining would make them more likely to be attacked. Clearly Finland feels NATO is making them safer or they wouldn’t have joined. And since then, Russia has moved tons of their military away from NATO borders and into Ukraine.
In other words, I trust the actions of Finland and Russia more than I trust the words of Russia.
Yes, it couldn’t have gone better if NATO planned this all along.
Wait until you hear what that defensive pact did in Yugoslavia and Libya
You know, you have a point. But I’ll note both instances had the UN request NATO intervention. Russia could have blocked either with their veto in the UN Security Council, but they didn’t.
I mean, no, the UN security council doesn’t have any power, they would have still gone through with the invasion.
Not to mention the actual voting on intervention was in the start of 1992, when the comprador Russian government (the same one btw that got promised by USA they won’t add former socialist countries to NATO) was choking on USA boot.
I think you’re missing a paragraph that tells how the border between Russia and NATO increased twofold since (and as the result of) the invasion.
“Hey it’s all about NATO. We always wanted less NATO at our doorsteps, and you can see we tried our best to achieve this. That backfired, yes, but we ask you once again to… Ask all those countries nicely to withdraw from NATO. Having NATO at our borders is not healthy for our people, you see… With all those bio laboratories… And parent№1+parent№2 policy that you force on everyone…”
While that may or may not be the case this does not permit interference of sovereign state from acting in its own best in own best interest.
Agreed - but it does make it somewhat of an “own goal”. The invasion was predictable. Western PR says it was totally surprising but it wasn’t.
My friend it was never about NATO. There is no prospective out there based in fact where NATO has anything to do with it.
The British news outlet The Guardian: “Many predicted Nato expansion would lead to war. Those warnings were ignored.”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine
Russia said since 2014 this was about NATO. Even before they protested strongly the NATO expansion. So how can it not be about NATO? You’re either completely uninformed or lying.
You have the media literacy of a fly. Not even Russia supporters believe this is about NATO.
Uh… yes, we do? I mean not only about NATO, but definitely also about NATO. Even liberals like Jeffrey Sachs and radlibs like Noam Chomsky and undead ghouls like Henry Kissinger agree.
It’s an element but anyone saying the war was started because of NATO is clearly bullshitting. Now if you were to ask why the war is still going on despite both sides wanting peace, NATO is a pretty succinct and accurate explanation.
Removed by mod
and US fascists say banning trans people is about protecting children. only a fool believes the narrative of a fascist
Well if you insist on not taking Russia seriously - then you must be very pleased with the result. Maybe you should call Putin a Hitler a few more times, that will solve everything :D
Removed by mod
I’m a Lemmygrad Andy, if there’s any tankie in this conversation, it’s me. Person’s on ee they’re probably only parroting outdated propaganda because they’re a neo-reactionary, (or an outright fascist) not because they’re communist.
Putin’s agenda of steering the American right into self-destruction to neutralize their geopolitical opponent is going to result in a lot of lot of neo-fascists hitting themselves out of confusion, so keep your eyes open for that.
I don’t want people like you in my comments but no one acknowledges that. So weird.
Because they don’t get the option to choose. It’s not that difficult. Those countries weren’t clamoring to join NATO until Russia invaded, so its their own fault.
Basically they don’t want NATO right on their doorstep.
Have you looked at a map of Europe lately?
Removed by mod
If this war was about having NATO on their doorstep, why is it an invasion of a non-NATO country twenty years after the first neighbours of Russia joined NATO? It’s never seriously discussed because it’s either a lie or unfathomably stupid, and whichever of those two it is doesn’t much matter.
Just for a second, imagine you’re a neutral country in eastern Europe. Russia has been fucking with Georgia and Moldova since the fall of the Soviet Union, and now it invades Ukraine for the second time within a decade. Russia has never touched a NATO country despite bordering several of them for literally decades. And then Russia acts all shocked when you say you want into NATO
Yeah and Russia protested strongly every time. But Ukraine was their red line. Just because you didn’t read it in western media doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
I don’t condone the invasion but it was predictable and a colossal “failure” of diplomacy if you look at it charitably. At worst it was a long term plan to force Russia into a conflict with the aid of western media to obscure the reason why this war was happening. Russia is acting just like the US would.
plan to force Russia into a conflict
Please explain how exactly do you force someone (who suggests to be reasonable) into conflict, basically force them to invade anyone.
Did the Poland “forced” Hitler to start the WW2 the same way?
Please explain how exactly do you force someone (who suggests to be reasonable) into conflict, basically force them to invade anyone.
Well imagine if China were to make a military pact with Mexico and started delivering “defensive” weapon systems to them. There would be protests, sanctions, meddling and attempts for regime change, and if those didn’t work there would be invasion.
For the US to invade another country it actually takes far less. Getting bombed is super easy.
Imagine justifying real war by imagining things.
For the US to invade another country it actually takes far less. Getting bombed is super easy.
These sentences don’t make sense as the response for the quotation.
Do you live in some alternative reality where the US didn’t invade Irak and Afghanistan? And is bombing countries all over the world for whatever reason? Oh let me guess that is TOTALLY different!
We all live in a reality where the US did invade Iraq and Afghanistan. And here is the thought process of me trying to understand your reasoning behind mentioning these events in current context:
-
The US asked many times for Iraq and Afghanistan to not try to oppose them. According to the US, Iraq and Afghanistan bombed its own citizens (who call themselves the people of the US) for several (at least 8) years and finally the US decided to intervene.
-
But in fact it must have been caused by someone else, like China or Russia. They provided Iraq and Afghanistan with weapons and/or proposed them the place in alliance against the US, which is why the US didn’t have a choice.
-
From the very start of those invasions, the whole world decided to stand against the US and provided Iraq and Afghanistan with all the weapons and resources they could need in order to protect themselves. Massive sanctions were applied against the US to stop its war machine.
-
The US massively increased pressure on free speech and started to jail its own citizens who speak against the war. This also caused at least 1 percent of the US population to migrate elsewhere.
-
Because this all (or at least some of it) happened with the US, there is no problem in assuming that it would be fine to happen with other country (like Russia) and nobody should say a word against that country’s right for protecting its interests.
If this is what really happened then you are correct and this not “totally different” but exactly the same.
But if there are differences, I hope you can explain them without involving any kind of “injustice” towards Russia.
-
It’s hardly unprecedented. The USA felt forced into an aggressive response to the Soviets putting missiles in Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
So it was Soviet plan to start the aggression? Is it the same with Finland? When can we expect Putin to invade it?
I don’t get it, what do you mean?
Read the message you were replying to. I asked specifically how do you force a country to invade a other country (that is not yours). You told about Cuba, so naturally I wanted to confirm if you mean the situation was caused by desire of Soviets to start the aggression.
Because it’s invaders demanding unprotected targets. It’s the dumbest propaganda imaginable. What is it doing in your mouth?
“We want the Stop Russia Invading Shit Alliance to be further away from Russia! To prove we’re serious, Russia will invade countries that aren’t yet part of the alliance.”
I wonder if you guys realize that Russia is achieving it’s war objectives? West-Ukraine won’t join NATO anytime soon, because they know what will happen. This war also has seriously long term destabilizing effects on Europe - at least on their democracies (refugees, tax burden / austerity).
It’s ludicrous to say that Russia’s protests about NATO are bogus - because they protested about it for decades, ever since the US broke their agreement with Gorbachev to not expand NATO eastwards. It’s just a historical fact that you want to alter in order to justify not negotiating. I’m used to these “alternative facts” level of brainwashing from trumpists but not from liberals.
More countries joined NATO, Russia’s slaughtering a generation of Russians, their money is gone, their equipment is gone, and their big scary mercenary force openly tried to overthrow the government. Wow. What victorious progress.
At this rate NATO’s gonna disband because there won’t be a Russia.
Their demands are irrelevant while on the soil of a sovereign nation without authorization or sufficient leverage. Both of which are not only lacking but severely so.
This whole shit storm has been about one thing. Putins legacy as the czar that reformed the USSR. That’s it. He wants to lift the iron curtain high once more. It’s all dick stroking by a madman.
Removed by mod
Every time I tell you what I think of you it gets deleted. So I’ll just say see you next Tuesday.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
which is a perfectly reasonable demand.
but since the US wants blood…
