• Isoprenoid@programming.dev
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    10 months ago

    Correct. Why would anyone go for a worse option for themselves?

    Edit: A benefit to one group does not mean a detriment to others. This is not a zero sum game.

    The funny thing is that the left could offer so many things for men:

    • address mental health issues
    • paternal leave / support for fatherhood
    • Less dangerous work
    • rehabilitation in prisons
    • a free lamborghini
    • address homelessness

    All of which are mostly men issues.

    • Glitchington@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Is it really worse? Or does it just hurt your feels when women can decide something on their own?

        • Glitchington@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          You’re not wrong, but the wage gap? Not going to close if we give everyone a raise. It would be the same wage gap.

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
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            10 months ago

            The gender pay gap is insignificant and inconsequential compared to the income differences between working and owning classes. Also, much of the pay gap is due to men culturally tending to not have the option of escaping the grindset. “Honey I’m going to quit my job and do something that doesn’t alienate me, yes it’s going to pay less” is not something universally accepted by wives.

          • hakase@lemm.ee
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            10 months ago

            I’m pretty sure that by this point most reasonable people have realized that the wage gap is a myth, so that’s probably not your best example.

              • hakase@lemm.ee
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                10 months ago

                Not really, since that’s just the same ill-defined “Earnings Gap” nonsense constantly peddled as a “wage gap” for decades. As this article from Forbes and the sources inside explain, and has been well-known for a decade at this point, “When comparing two people in the same profession, with the same seniority, working the same number of hours, and so forth, women earn $0.98 for every dollar that a man earns.”

                Their source for that number has since updated that number to $0.99 for every dollar a man earns for the same work.

                So, unless you think that women should be paid significantly more than men for the same work (which wouldn’t surprise me, given your other comments in this thread), Rejoice! for the “wage gap” is no more!

                • Glitchington@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  It should be dollar for dollar, don’t act like I have implied anything more. I’m done with this, as you missed my original point: Giving everyone more doesn’t fix inequality.

              • Isoprenoid@programming.dev
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                10 months ago

                In addition to being less likely than men to say they are currently the boss or a top manager at work, women are also more likely to say they wouldn’t want to be in this type of position in the future. More than four-in-ten employed women (46%) say this, compared with 37% of men. Similar shares of men (35%) and women (31%) say they are not currently the boss but would like to be one day. These patterns are similar among parents.

                The wage gap exists because women have reasonable expectations for work-life balance (one reason). Men are culturally expected to rise and grind.

                This isn’t the win that wage gap enthusiasts think it is. It’s essentially saying:

                Wanna get paid more? Be a corporate whore.

                • Glitchington@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  Still missing the point. Giving everyone more doesn’t fix inequality.

                  Giving those with less the means to exist doesn’t make what you have lesser.

                  The point you’ve made here seems to be, corporations are bad, everyone is exploited now, and if anyone wants to make money you have to give up your life to do so.

                  Also, the part of the paper you’ve cherry picked suits your narrative but doesn’t paint the entire picture.

                  • Isoprenoid@programming.dev
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                    10 months ago

                    Also, the part of the paper you’ve cherry picked suits your narrative

                    Yes, I chose the part of the paper that supported my argument.

                    So what? Is it out of context? Nope.

                    The point you’ve made here seems to be … if anyone wants to make money you have to give up your life to do so.

                    You literally sell your time (life) to get money. That is what a wage is. Want more money? Sell more time.

                    I’m not saying that is a bad or good thing. I’m stating straight facts.

    • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Why would anyone go for a worse option for themselves?

      Because if everyone only voted for the things that benefit them, then it’s possible to end up in a situation that’s worse for everybody. If the majorities repeatedly votes for a small benefit to themselves and a large detriment to everyone else, this is basically guaranteed to happen. This is also why voting out of spite is a bad idea.

      Example: Let’s examine a population consisting of 60% white people and 60% Christians, uncorrelated (so 36% white Christians, 24% nonwhite Christians, 24% white non-Christians, and 16% nonwhite non-Christians). This population is making two votes: one that will be Very Bad for nonwhites, and one that will be Very Bad for non-Christians, with a small benefit to white people or Christians respectively. Both will pass, which results in:

      • 36% of the population (white Christians) gets two small benefits

      • 48% of the population (white non-Christians and nonwhite Christians combined) gets a small benefit and something Very Bad for them

      • 16% of the population (nonwhite non-Christians) gets two Very Bad results passed against them

      So the overall result is negative for 64% of the population, despite everyone voting for their interests and everyone voting! This is because the legislation was more bad for the minority than it was good for the majority.

      Bonus: I believe you can use this to prove that you can use a sequence of legislation to get into literally any position you want if everyone votes strictly for things that help them, and I saw a good YT video on that topic, but I can’t find it right now.

        • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Only if the appropriate legislation is available to vote on. If the only legislation available is something that hurts you a little and helps someone else a lot, it may be in society’s best interest to vote for it. If you were in a culture that encouraged that, your actions would be repaid by others doing the same, eventually securing large gains for everyone. This is the opposite of my example above, but the math works out the same.

          Essentially, there are situations in which the logical choice is to vote for something that hurts you, or to not vote for something that helps you. (Zero-sum-like situations are especially likely to have this occur.) Over a long period of time, what matters is how much each bill helps society overall, not how much it helps you in particular. (Yes, this stops working if the other groups won’t do the same for you.)

    • PaupersSerenade@sh.itjust.works
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      10 months ago

      So we should just let ‘minorities’ suffer? The term appeasement comes to mind, as I don’t know what else you could be advocating here.

        • Glitchington@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Let me get this straight, if you have food to survive, and someone else who doesn’t have food wants some food, not even your food, just some food, you need more food before they get any at all?

          • Isoprenoid@programming.dev
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            10 months ago

            Did … did you even read my post? What is going on?

            Let me re-write it using your analogy.

            Why not both? Food for minorities and food for majorities.

            This isn’t a zero sum game.

            • Glitchington@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Everyone should have food, my point is, the majority shouldn’t get extra food just because the minority are getting enough food now.