The Texas Nationalist Movement (TNM) is campaigning for the Lone Star State to break away from the United States and become a fully independent country, using what it regards as the federal government’s failure to control the Texan-Mexican border as one justification.
Just let the fuckers leave. Today. They can take their 2 Republican Senators and 38 Representatives (25R, 13D) with them. We’ll build a wall on the border and make them pay for it.
Seriously though, how long do you think they would make it on their own? The last time they were they’re own country they BEGGED the US to take them in for what, 9 years? Before we finally did.
Texas is one of the few self-sufficient Republican states. (eg. They contribute more than they receive from federal funds.) They’d survive.
That being said, their economy would be fucked because all the US trade agreements suddenly would disappear. Look how badly that affected the UK with Brexit, and then multiply it by 100.
All the tech companies in Texas would leave. As would most Democrats with the means to do it. There goes your highly educated workforce (Democrats tend to be more highly educated based on demographic data).
The US military would leave. And then there goes all the defense contractors too.
They wouldn’t be self-sufficient on their own. They’re only self sufficient because they’re part of the US.
I’m a Texan and a Democrat. I would be out of here so fucking fast. I’d rather work at McDonald’s in California than live in an independent Texas Republic.
I wish I could join, but I’ll take a role as a saboteur.
Also, you’re forgetting an important factor: food. Texas is not part of the breadbasket, it is not known for its agricultural produce, and the amount of good soil is not enough to feed the population.
Assuming Texas dips into its slush fund to buy things like grain, it would be flat broke in a decade, with only oil fields and beef to trade (they’d lose their offshore oil rigs).
And from what I’ve heard they use fossil water for their crops which is salinating their good soil
This point right here so many Texas cities entire economy is based on the military industrial complex.
Their economy would be fucked because they’d need to draw up an entire economy overnight. What is a US dollar to a non-American? What does a Texas bank look like, and how does it function differently from a US bank? Do the companies currently operating nationally across the US have the right or capability of operating in New Texas? What forms must they fill out to file their taxes? Where goes the money that was previously pouring into the Houston area due to NASA jobs that suddenly don’t exist there? What about the money in San Antonio, Waco, and other towns with military bases suddenly drying up? What about the fact that the federal government owns the land those military bases are built on? What do the private companies who operate phone lines and Internet backbones do with the physical media installed in the ground which they presumably own?
The people who are cheering on secession have no fucking clue about this stuff. They lack the ability to perform a reality check. They don’t even know how to question their ideas, and they don’t have any independent thoughts. Their minds are controlled entirely by their political and religious shepherds.
The politicians who lead them on with the idea they might get away with it don’t need to answer the questions. They say and do these things because the people who put them in power think of the argument for secession as the equivalent of a schoolyard fight. “Oh yeah, well if you won’t kick the transes out of the kickball game then I’m just gonna take the ball and go play kickball over there by myself.” It’s stupid and childish and completely unrealistic.
I hope I’m right that Abbott, et al, have thought of all this and are only grandstanding, allowing their collective lobotomy of a voter base to rabble rouse, and won’t actually go for this. It would be an absolute bloodbath when they all starve or get summarily executed as the full thrust of the most expensive military budget in the known universe blasts in to establish order.
I hope I’m right that Abbott, et al, have thought of all this and are only grandstanding, allowing their collective lobotomy of a voter base to rabble rouse, and won’t actually go for this.
I hope so too, but there’s always the possibly that the situation gets out of hand and Abbott and his goons lose control of the populace and start a chain reaction they can’t stop.
All it world take is for one of the many unregulated militias to engage with federal forces over the razor-wire dispute.
Other “militias” see this as the start of the war that Abbott has been promising them and follow suit.
Then you have multiple engagements that require a response from the US government.
Even if it doesn’t break down into a full “civil war”, people could die and tensions could greatly escalate.
He’s playing with fire, and if he isn’t very careful he could easily fumble it and make a mess he’s not prepared to deal with.
I’m not sure they’re self-sufficient anymore. If I remember correctly, that one study was from 20 years ago and was done by a right-wing think tank, and the trend for Texas was overall negative. They stopped that study basically right before Texas started breaking even.
They’d be conquered by Mexico in a hot second.
The cartels would easily take over.
They wouldn’t make it through a single winter (if they got that far)
They lasted like a year before seceding with the confederacy. They’re the failstate of America
5.2 million people voted Democratic in the 2020 presidential election (46% of those who voted). It would be a tragedy to abandon them. It would also create an ongoing threat to the stability of the remaining country. As Martin Luther King said, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”
To add to your excellent point (that there are more democrats in Texas than the entire population of many states), very, very few people are actually a part of this “movement.”
This isn’t a real thing that normal people actually endorse, it’s a bumper sticker you see on an old beat up truck in the wal-mart parking lot.
It’s like the Texas version of flat earthers or ghost/alien hunters or Bigfoot researchers. They do exist but they are massively over-represented in the press because it’s so stupid that people can’t help but “tune in.”When a cancer invades a healthy organ, that organ is typically removed fully. That’s because, while there are good cells in that organ, the cancerous cells represent a greater danger to the overall being.
Unlike cells, liberals in Texas can move to a different state. Maybe they should.
Left leaning fella in a deep red district in Georgia. Can I move elsewhere? Physically, yes. Financially, not a friggen chance. Lots of us are stuck in place for financial reasons or even familial.
Oakies in the dust bowl didn’t have a pot to piss in. Civilian Palestinians in North Gaza didn’t want to move. The Hmong people from Vietnam didn’t want to move. The Rohingya didn’t want to move. They still moved - because there was no other alternative.
At the end of the day those are just excuses. You can always move, you just choose not to. You just haven’t felt that the conditions are dire enough. I suppose you’ll just have to wait for them to keep getting worse. It’s not like your neighbors or fellow citizen voters are going to stop voting for Trump, Kemp, and MTG.
What do you think is happening in Texas?!?!
You sound like my in-laws talking about Portland as if it’s constantly on fire with ANTIFA checkpoints throughout the city.
Cities in Texas (where most people live) are the same as every other city in America, overpriced housing, tech bros, craft breweries, overpriced coffee, tapas bars, suburbs filled with church-going pearl-clutchers. It’s literally the same exact shit with slightly different food and ethnic background of blue collar workers.
The rural areas are significantly more fucked up, economically (and I would argue socially) but that’s true of absolutely every blue state. Go to rural California, Oregon, Washington and you have the EXACT same people as rural Texas.
Go to LA, NYC, SF, Portland and you have literally the same people as Austin, Dallas, Houston, because a lot of people you meet are from those cities.We don’t disagree. As I said, you can move, you just don’t think it’s bad enough to force you to.
Texas isn’t some dystopian hellscape like your examples, nor will it become one in our lifetime.
It’s just another example of a gerrymandered state with loud-mouthed shitheads riling their base up and clinging to power despite their declining poll numbers.
47% of Texan voters chose Biden in 2020, 52% voted Trump. Meanwhile in California it went 64% Biden, 34% Trump. Not that different. Also interesting to note, 6 million people voted for Trump in California, while only 5.9 million people voted for Trump in Texas. Seems like California has a bigger problem than Texas, maybe we should give them to Mexico or have them secede or whatever as well?Texas has a good chance of being blue in our lifetime as cities grow in population and the demographic continues to skew… younger and less “white.”
SourceEdit to add: let’s say for fun that your Gaza/Hmong/Rhohingya comparison is true and a liberal holocaust is coming. One stereotype about Texans that actually is true is that most of us (left and right, urban and rural) own guns and generally like guns for sport, hunting, defense, etc. Attempting a liberal holocaust in a densely populated, urban environment full of gun fanciers that don’t like authority would not go well for the invaders.
If people had to move states every time a relatively tiny group of idiots advocated for something stupid that’s never going to happen, there would be nowhere on earth to live.
Lol, you think the cancer that’s infected Texas hasn’t already metastisized throughout our country?
You’re suggesting 5.2 million should be forced to migrate, and we should leave a cancerous state to its whims right next to our border?
They may be forced to by their own state government. It’s not my issue if Texans want to do that to themselves.
There’s not a mechanism for secession from the United States. That’s what started the civil war. So unless our leadership gives up on our citizens, it’s not a question of being forced to. I would encourage progressive minded people to have empathy for our fellow humans and not assume that all people from “red” areas are uniformly awful.
We can trade Texas for Puerto Rico and won’t even need to change the flag! Win-win
Please don’t leave me here.
Just learn some Spanish and Abbott will let you get on a bus to come up North, for free!
If Texass suddenly became its own country, I wouldn’t expect them to be so generous to those people as to keep sending them to better places.
They’d probably decide those people should be concentrated somewhere away from decent Texans.
Those Texans forget that current prosperity relies on being part of the Union. As soon as they leave they will be worse than just having tariffs; they’d be embargoded so hard Cuba looks like a trade empire.
I had a buddy in the army who desperately wanted to believe Texas was a fully functional country that needed no America.
They want to break away to become their true calling, a shithole country.
I love shitting on Texas and Florida and, well every southern state, and most of the Midwest, and quite a few states out west, but as someone who lives in one of these areas I like to remind everyone that’s there’s a lot of decent people living in those states. That is all.
There are also lots of decent people living in the countries the US bombs.
What’s the difference?
If Texas secedes we can arm the Resistance and install a new regime!
It’ll be fun, those CIA guys are getting a little bored anyways.
The difference is the issue being discussed. Being discussed is a state seceding from the US. What you are interjecting is a comment on the US’s foreign policy.
We could just return them to Mexico. Call it an apology for the inconvenience of us keeping California and New Mexico.
If they secede the cartels will probably be running Texas within a week anyway.
I think the return window on Texas has expired, unfortunately.
Um, hello? Lots of innocent people live here.
Especially a ton of Democrats, many of them POC, LGBT etc who will become the targets on day one.
Seriously, some of the people commenting on this are either stupid and heartless.
Politics isn’t just an Internet game, it’s people’s lives
There are always innocent people everywhere.
In every war, corruption, authoritarian regime, genocide, displacement, refugee camp, …
Why do you think you should get special treatment?
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Looks like Putin gave the Brexit propagandists a new assignment.
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TNM has no teeth. They’ve been lobbying to secede for years. This is a ploy Abbott knows he’s going to lose so he can play victim for the next 10 months to boost Republican voter turnout.
Hand it over to the cartels and see how they like living in a ‘libertarian’ state.
Give it back to Mexico
Can we agree this state/federal “laboratories of democracy” bullshit is a failed experiment? Our framers were wealthy land owners who suggested land owners be the only class be allowed to vote, they were far from infallible, and their quarter millenia old framework isn’t compatible with or flexible enough for modernity.
It just makes 50 societies often working against one another instead of one with common governance. This need for systemically enforced competition and disdain for the concept of cooperation is a self-destructive cultural value.
i think it was somewhat more sensible when the main form of communication was riders on horseback but it’s gotten stupid very quickly
Shall we unite behind God-King Trump then? The more decentralized and “competitive” the system, the better for most individuals. Sure, there is inefficiency, but those inefficiencies might save us from fascism.
The more decentralized and “competitive” the system, the better for most individuals.
According to? If I recall some of the worst crimes in US history we’re committed with the authority of individual states. In fact it took a more centralized authority to secure the civil rights we enjoy today.
but those inefficiencies might save us from fascism.
Again, this doesn’t follow logic or history. Fascist don’t work within the operational parameters set by the status quo. Fascist are revolutionaries, not reformers, they don’t care about how centralized or decentralized a government is. Their entire purpose is to destroy the current hierarchical framework and replace it with their own.
Also if we take a look at the nations where fascism did arise like pre war Italy or Germany, they were highly disorganized and fractured governments. The factional deadlock and decentralization were the only reason fascist parties made any headway in the first place.
No, but if we were a society we shouldn’t play by different sets of rules, and root against other members of our society, which the mini-societies at odds with each other and rooting for each other’s failures stokes.
We should either be 50 different countries not resentfully beholden to one another while competing against each other, or preferably one nation with the same communal rules and government to complain to and change with our combined democratic power. As it is, when California suffers, Texas cheers, and vice versa. That’s a deeply broken nation at odds with itself.
This is just some broken, in-between limbo that’s the worst of both scenarios. A house divided - by design! Good for monied interests to exploit and play against itself, think of Amazon starting tax cut bidding wars between states to build there, not good for the people en masse, the people that need their state’s capitalist businesses to pay taxes for the commons like schools and roads.
State National Guards ordinarily fall under the control of their respective governors, but they can be federalized by a mechanism known as Title 10 status, which places them at the direct disposal of the president and defense secretary, with active duty officers taking over day-to-day command
Title 10 isn’t even rare…
They do it for all types of shit, and Biden is fully within past usage if he does it here.
I’m cautiously optimistic he’ll do the right thing here.
His donors don’t want the instability of a full on secession
His voters don’t want the instability of a secession*
succession
They are not serious people.
Don’t keep your hopes up, rarely does anything exciting happen in politics.
You mean “exciting” like a fun thing like a rollercoaster?
Yeah, that’s rare.
But “exciting” like getting mugged in an alley?
That seems to be all that’s happening recently lol
But Biden going title 10 wouldn’t even be fun exciting. It’s the completely normal and expected thing to happen
We’re watching the fall of Rome in real time and you don’t think it’s exciting?
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Some decades, little happens. Some months, decades happen.
Don’t stop there, take over the entire state government. Throw traitors to the curb and clean house
There’s already legit criminals in the executive branch, so seems justified to me.
Can we just shove Texas out into the ocean already?
Lifelong Texan. Fuck it, you have my support. So tired of this.
Just add it to Mexico.
I think Florida is in the way.
As a former resident of Florida, feel free to push us in, too.
I see this as an absolute win.
Plus, I’ll be the proud owner of ocean front property in Oklahoma.
Great, they can call it “Texit” and we all know how successful that movement is shaping up over the pond.
They tried last year.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Independence_Referendum_Act
Nobody in the texan government wants it to go through. They’ll push it to give lip service to the worst parts of their support base, just as long as they’re sure it will fail. We should pull a prank and let them push it over the finish line, and then invade the new texan independant state.
No, let them be “independent” until businesses demand they come back. I give them one fiscal quarter (3 months) of plunging sales. No one will trust the government of Texas like they do the US Government.
TBH with Abbot spending all their money on razorwire that appears to magically increase immigration numbers against its intended purpose, they might be going bankrupt even without ever seceding.
Unless all of that National Guard expenditure somehow made it out of federal military budget?
Haven’t they been trying that since they joined the USA?
why does everyone associate the corpo owned politicians with the citizens?
sure as with other states you will find plenty of people who want otherwise for their state and grouping them in with those slime politicians and saying let them go does not help anyone
I can’t see that going well, at all. Not a mutiny or fragging type situation, but a massive pencil pusher revolt.
I imagine their chain of command will pencil whip the fuck out of anything they can do that will cause issues for D.C., and as much as a headache as it’ll be for the feds, it’ll also be hilarious.
I hope he does it. I’ll have popcorn waiting.
How many times do we need to teach you this lesson, old man?
So I looked up what “federalizing the National Guard” means in this case.
The National Guard is a unique entity in that it answers to both state and federal governments. Troops can be mobilized by a state governor or the president, depending on need. The National Guard personnel restricting access to Shelby Park are on state orders as part of Operation Lone Star, Abbott’s sweeping border security initiative.
In theory, the president or the defense secretary could divert those troops by tasking them with a federal mission.
“There are a variety of statutes that allow the president to federalize the National Guard in different circumstances. But the only one that would clearly apply in this case is the Insurrection Act,” said Joseph Nunn, counsel at the Brennan Center’s Liberty and National Security Program.
Nunn described the Insurrection Act as a “nuclear bomb hidden in the United States Code” and explained that using it would be politically costly.
“The Insurrection Act gives the president sole discretion to decide whether the criteria for invoking it are met,” he explained. “There are quite literally no safeguards to stop it from being abused.”
Historically, Nunn said, presidents have only invoked the act to federalize National Guard troops as a last resort. That was the case in 1957, when President Dwight D. Eisenhower mobilized the Arkansas National Guard to enforce a Supreme Court ruling on desegregation.
So, this would mean USURPING the Governor’s control of the Texas National Guard in order to get them to do something else.
THAT’S WHAT THEY WANT BIDEN TO DO.
THIS IS A STUNT.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SECESSION.
They want to be able to point to Biden’s actions in this and say “Bad” in twelve different ways.
They ALSO want someone to invoke the insurrection act so everyone can have carte blanche to use it whenever they want LATER, no matter who is in control.
This is a horrible precedent to set.
This whole situation is bad.
Rep. Joaquin Castro said: “Governor Greg Abbott is using the Texas National Guard to obstruct and create chaos at the border.”
The best option here might be to let his own idiocy backfire on him. I just hope there’s a way to do it without more loss of life.
Not a job Biden has the balls for but I’d love to be wrong. Trump is far far from the only fascist in office and the milquetoast Biden response to these people that’s been empowering these behaviors was never going to be what the country needed to root out this problem. In fact Id wager more than most elected Democrats and all Republicans are unable or unwilling to fix this.
