But that district court judge, Sarah Wallace, ultimately ruled that Trump could remain on the ballot because she said it was not clear that the drafters or ratifiers of the 14th Amendment intended to cover the presidency in the insurrection clause.
This part really pissed me off. The 14th amendment is pretty clear that it refers to any and all people. Is it just me, or is judge Wallace implying that it isn’t clear that the founders believed the president is a person?
Wallace’s decision was brilliant legal maneuvering. Having found Trump factually guilty of insurrection, higher courts cannot re-adjudicate or dismiss that fact. It is now written in stone.
Given that this case was going to be appealed, no matter what, her decision basically dropped an anvil on Trump’s head. Now SCOTUS cannot disregard the fact that Trump engaged in insurrection. They’re stuck with that, that’s how our law works. Bet Trump’s defense is pissed off.
Only way out now is some serious legal acrobatics to say that 14th does not apply to POTUS. LOL, he’s fucked.
And remember, this court is conservative, not partisan. These judges owe neither the GOP nor Trump a damned thing. I’d bet you a crisp $20 bill that, like the GOP leadership, every one of them loathes the man. And unlike the GOP leadership, they no longer have to worry about votes.
They’ve already declined to hear one Trump case (maybe two?), thereby kicking his loss back to the lower court. Where, ya know, he already lost. They also told Alabama to go fuck themselves on their redistricting shenanigans.
tl;dr: Wallace ruled this way on purpose to fuck Trump.
Everything you say would also be the case if she hadn’t come up with the bullshit about not applying to the presidency. That was simply about keeping the maga crosshairs off of her.
Clarence Thomas seems to like Trump just fine; he and his wife were being very shady after the 2020 election.
The idea that this court is “not partisan” is frankly one of the most naïve things I’ve heard in a long time.
Now SCOTUS cannot disregard the fact that Trump engaged in insurrection.
They gonna tho.
Literally, this scotus makes up its own facts all the time to get to the outcome they want. Go look into the quiet prayer that football coach was doing (it wasn’t quiet).
They literally don’t give a shit anymore about any rule. Standing doesn’t matter, facts, anything. If they just think they need to stick their stupid fucking faces into something they just go with their major questions bullshit now.
Down with the god kings of the Supreme Court!
This is the corrupted court that overturned Roe.
what has confused me about people saying this is, well, what exactly stops the supreme court from overriding him being declared factually guilty of that? Im guessing theres some sort of law to the effect that decisions like that arent what higher courts are trying to answer, but the supreme court also has no higher court to appeal a ruling to, so if they just decided to declare that this finding was incorrect anyway, what would happen?
There’s nothing stopping them but they are expected to consider precedent which that decision sets.
That’s not how precedent works. Higher courts set precedent that lower courts must follow, not vice versa. For instance, the SC could introduce a very narrow definition of (participating in) an insurrection. If they want to rule in Trump’s favor, they will find an excuse (and mangle the law in the process).
Yeah, they are pretty GD partisan. By virtue of being conservative.
This is not a smart take. It’s basically conspiracy thinking.
Otherwise, the Supreme Court is clearly partisan, because Alito and Thomas unashamedly contort into any position needed to face the MAGA base, and Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Coney Barrett will typically tend to do so in any issue involving civil rights or business interests.
The GOP is the body that executes the will of whatever conservatism is at any moment; they are inseparable at the executional level. The doctrinal vehicle the GOP uses to get where it’s going is originalism, but the great thing about justices playing professional-amateur historians is that they can cherry-pick history to suit party-doctrinal needs.
The 14th is a reconstruction amendment btw, it wasn’t drafted or ratified by the founders.
Great point. I don’t know why I said founders, I meant framers, but I’m leaving it so your correction makes sense.
they founded the 14th amendment
I think what’s important here is that the judge ruled that the orange cheeto comitted insurrection. I hope the supreme court does not strike down this part. If they don’t, then they may proceed with judging the case based solely on that.
the president is an office inhabited by a person for four years at most twice.
that was the intent.
never again “I am the State.”
That sounds a lot like Canadian (and also British) constitutional theory. The King is powerless himself. He just wears the crown, the Crown has all the power. The King wears the crown, and parliament controls it.
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This is going to backfire on them royally. A left-wing person is going to be convicted of trying to overthrow the government, but then be able to run for president if that becomes the precedent. Be careful what you wish for, conservatives.
They’re going to find some way to let him run. They’ll overturn the trial judge in it being insurrection, they’ll say the amendment needs legislation to back it up, they’ll say say the word “the” doesn’t really mean “the” like it did in 1492 or some such nonsense. It’ll be 5-4 or 6-3, because the fascist right has the judiciary captured.
America entered the legal phase of fascism during Trumps presidency, and Biden and the democrats weren’t able to correct it during this last best chance to do so. In my humble, ignorant, foreign opinion, this is it, this will be the next step in the long coming codification of fascist rule in America.
Good luck, hope I’m wrong.
‘or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States’
well see, the thing is, the presidency is both civil and military… it doesn’t say “and/or” so clearly it’s an exclusive ‘or’ (aka xor) and exempt…
- the super ream court( ╯︵╰)
Garland tried his best to bury it but the J6 Committee forced his hand.
Honestly the J6 Committee is one of the very few recent examples of thy government actually functioning.
I think Trump is useful to the conservative movement either way, but it’s probably better for them if he’s a martyr.
The sad reality is it all comes down to whether their owners want Trump or someone they can control better.
Nope, America entered the fascist era with Obama. No, no, I’m still talking about the GOP!!
Fuckers shut down the government TWICE just because they didn’t like a black man as a president. And do you remember this one time when Obama was giving a speech and some Republican idiot shouted “you lie!”?
Those were omens for things to come.
My only hope is that, somehow, they have verifiable already ruled against Trump before in other cases and filings.
And also that maybe ruling for him with Biden still in office now would set precedent to potentially backfire on Republicans somehow.
Both are stretches.
So, how do you think the Court will justify keeping Trump on the ballot?
- What Trump did doesn’t qualify as insurrection.
- Trump hasn’t been convicted of insurrection.
- The insurrectionist ban is only for people who participated in the civil war
- The ban doesn’t apply because presidents aren’t officers
- The ban doesn’t apply because presidents swear to protect the constitution, not to support it
- Section 3 can’t be enforced without congress passing legislation to enforce it.
- It’s a political question so courts can’t touch it.
- Trump being impeached but acquitted after the insurrection means he can’t be punished for it due to double jeopardy (I hate that this is an actual argument being made… and that it’s not even close to the stupidest one to come from team Trump)
Trump hasn’t been convicted of insurrection.
I keep seeing this one… Am I missing something, or didn’t Colorado convict him of insurrection as part of their case? I thought that was the whole point.
But maybe I’m just trying to rationalize a group of people not acting rationally.
to me this is where it gets interesting. that the constitution left it to the states to ‘remove the burden’ of being labeled an insurrectionist to congress implies maybe they also decide who is an insurrectionist … ie, maybe it only takes one state court to declare it, but congress to remove it?
in other words, the SC could say, ‘colorados ruling stands becasue they have that right, if you dont like it speak to the congress who can remove the burden’
No, Colorado’s ruling applies solely to Colorado. They didn’t convict him personally of anything, they just said his actions allow them to keep him off the ballot under the 14th Amendment. If the Supreme Court decides that Colorado misinterpreted the 14th, they could overturn their decision, but the CO decision doesn’t inherently classify Trump as an insurrectionist in other states.
It’s a matter of legal jargon. When people say “convicted” they mean has there been a criminal trial in which trump was found guilty of insurrection.
This hasn’t happened. But the Colorado supreme court, a court that routinely makes decisions about criminal cases, has decided he committed insurrection.
The convicted thing is just an excuse to let him off.
I think the most sound legal reasoning would be to say he hasn’t actually been convicted of any charge that constitutes “insurrection”. Conviction is how the government asserts and proves that something happened, and to skip this step opens our legal system for a whole lot of abuse. They’re going to say that, if and when he is convicted, then he can be barred, but not before.
The people the this amendment was specifically targeting weren’t convicted of anything.
If I’m not mistaken they were even blanket pardoned
This is true but if there’s any possibility that SCOTUS rules in trump’s favor that will be the only semi logical way they could do it.
I don’t think they can argue #1, because a lower court found that he had done insurrection, and my understanding is that they cannot overrule that finding. #2 won’t stand because it never required conviction historically.
I really don’t know how they’re going to justify it, but I’m sure they’ll find a way. Maybe it’s on your list.
Edit: I have consulted a legal expert, and they said that the supreme Court can overrule “facts” determined in other courts, but it is generally only for egregious things and is generally frowned upon.
Why could they not overrule that finding? That’s literally what appeals to higher courts are for.
It’s their job to interpret the law and to determine if the law was applied correctly. They will not however dispute those findings. You will see, they will not debate that Trump is an insurrectionist.
- Every individual state has the right to determine who can run for president in their state (this would be a complete clusterfuck but very funny to watch if you’re not American).
- Separation of powers. This is an ambitious growth in the courts powers in determining who can be in the executive branch. They need a motion from the legislature to confirm that they have this ability.
I honestly believe that conservatives on the supreme court are going to look for a way not to rule on it. The legal case for insurrection is straightforward, and they’re going to want to just make it someone else’s problem.
Section 3 says he can’t hold office, doesn’t say he can’t get elected to it
Trump being impeached but acquitted after the insurrection means he can’t be punished for it due to double jeopardy
So are they suggesting that to also get him out of Jack Smith’s Jan 6 case?
No, they’re just suggesting it so that if (when) a justice sides with him, they can say that’s why. Nobody, not even the lawyers making the argument, believe that being acquitted during impeachment proceedings magically erases criminal liability.
that last part: huh, an unexpected measure of reasonability.
That’s such a ridiculous argument anyway since they’re so quick to point out that impeachment is a political process and not a “legal” or judicial one.
Oh I know it’s absolutely ridiculous, but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t try to use it like that anyway, unsuccessfully.
Well, we hope unsuccessfully anyway.
stares into the distance
But that district court judge, Sarah Wallace, ultimately ruled that Trump could remain on the ballot because she said it was not clear that the drafters or ratifiers of the 14th Amendment intended to cover the presidency in the insurrection clause.
fuck outta here with this bullshit
Are you just learning this piece of old news? Really?
This is why Trump won. Complacency.
I wonder what our overly conservative, and therefore, illegitimate, “supreme” court will decide?
My guess is that they’ll rule he doesn’t qualify for being kicked off the ballot due to the 14th Amendment, but then they’ll “balance” that ruling out by ruling against Trump in his “Presidents are criminally immune no matter what they do” case. As if they’d ever rule in favor of that theory with a Democrat in the White House.
If presidents are criminally immune, then Biden can be president forever. And he could order the execution of any supreme Court justice. They need to be careful in the ruling.
Biden rolling into the SC chambers with a Glock actually makes voting for him more palatable for me.
I worry about this scenario:
The right wing justices on the court owe Trump nothing, and can look forward to using their lifetime positions to continue to ruin the country for decades. He was just a useful tool for getting them onto the court. They want Trump to stop bugging them and let them get on with it.
The three Trump justices and Thomas could recuse themselves, citing some previously hidden sense of ethics (and Habba specifically asking them for a quid pro quo).
Then a majority of the remainder would then remove Trump from the ballot.
This achieves 3 things:
- Republicans would be rid of Trump, because he’s a liability to their long term success. They could nominate Haley or whatever for this cycle.
- Republicans could shriek (and fundraise) endlessly off of “partisan librul socialist Democrat justices” removing Trump and why they need even MORE right wing justices.
- Trump’s stochastic MAGA terrorists would focus all their fury and rage on non-rightwing justices (rather than deciding that one of their own was a “RINO” and targeting them).
The only problem with their scenario (for the Republicans and those that control them) is that Trump would freak out and might tell all his followers to storm the Supreme Court anyway.
≥storm the Supreme Court anyway.
I wonder how that would go down? Would there be someone trying to gum up the response like last time?
Lemme guess. It’s gonna take 18 months?
I don’t know whether to be excited or worried.
Worried is a safe bet
what do you mean, clearly the US judicial system is fair and impartial /s
unfortunately, yeah.
Worried. Definitely
They aren’t hearing the case until 2/8 but the deadline for ballot finalization is 1/5, today.
So, regardless of how they rule, Trump will be on the ballot for the 3/5 Republican primary.
And if they rule against him, any votes that were cast will be ineligible and won’t be counted. The same as if I had written in someone who was born outside the US, or was under 35 years old. My write-in vote would simply be discarded, because it isn’t for a valid candidate.
Yes. But, should they rule against trump there’s no reason that Colorado’s Secretary of State has to count any votes he gets.
They wouldn’t take it up if they were going to rule against him.
Can’t we all chip in a bribe Clarence Thomas? Apparently it’s totally legal and has zero repercussions.
We won’t bribe him because calling it a bribe is illegal. We shall gift him.
Can we start a go fund me??
Title: Clarence needs a vacation and we need democracy send your speech in the form of crisp benjies.
He could buy his own yacht, private jet and tropical island and wouldn’t need to be paid off by billionaires…. problem solved you’re welcome.
I’m in.
On what grounds would they even look at this case? There is no federally constituted right to be on ballots to begin with.
Because they wanna. They don’t care about standing anymore.
And there’s no need for them to address most of it because it already comes with a remedy for the accused, appeal to congress who can vote on forgiving them.
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They can rule on the interpretation of the law i believe.
It’s a little late for that approach, since Judge Sarah Wallace already attempted to say the 38th congress didn’t intend for the law to apply to the President but it was overturned in appeals court when documents proved they did actually discuss exactly that topic on the day and made no exclusions. So, they have no grounds to even review this case.
“We the SCOTUS rule that Trump gets 3 more terms, and Joe Biden goes to jail because he’s a poopy head.” - Clarence Thomas probably
I’m sure the most accomplished legal minds in the country will judge this fairly, without bias, and entirely on the merits of the case itself
Someone’s getting a new RV!
Fkn lol
They better block him from running
They won’t. It’s up to us, the voters, to save the Republic.
The voters will have nothing to do with it. If he loses, it was stolen.
Edit: He will say it was stolen. There’s no losing for this guy, so pretending like the vote will matter is naive.
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The Supreme Court that is comprised mostly of conservatives half of which he put there? I’m sure it’ll be a fair ruling…
