• WaterWaiver@aussie.zoneOP
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    11 months ago

    What are the replacement materials?

    I presume that laminated/coated MDF isn’t the same market segment as heavy, dense engineered stones. Perhaps they’ll go solid epoxy with no silica filler? That would be more expensive but probably work. I suspect they’ll still want cheap fillers however, so non-silica stones might be chosen (but surely most stone dusts are bad?).

    EDIT: Oh dear https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-05/study-finds-safety-concerns-in-engineered-stone-alternatives/103185450

    • Ramenator@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Silicosis can come from a wide variety of sources, basically anything where stone dust occurs can produce it, even natural stone countertop manufacturing has long been known to be dangerous in that regard.
      This whole ban feels more like populism than addressing the real problems. Engineered stone has become a popular material, lots of people have worked with it with insufficient safety precautions and now there’s a number of people permanently disabled by it.
      Simply banning engineered stone won’t solve that problem, since it will now just happen with other materials.

        • wscholermann@aussie.zone
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          11 months ago

          The underlying point has some validity though. Many materials contain silica, even tiles, although not the same amount. Here are some other examples.

          • ceramic tiles: 5% to 45%
          • engineered stone: 80% to 95%
          • Sandstone: 70% to 90%
          • Granite: 25% to 60%
          • Slate: 20% to 40%
          • autoclaved aerated concrete: 20% to 40%
          • concrete: less than 30%
          • brick: 5% to 15%

          The cancer council of Australia says “there is currently no evidence to suggest a safe level of silica dust exposure”.

          If there is no safe level of silica, then by extension presumably this would rule out many other products containing silica.

          There are mitigation strategies, however they seemingly weren’t good enough for engineered stone, and presumably again by extension many other materials high in silica.

          It’s just not clear to me why engineered stone is banned but many other materials potentially high in silica are for choice of better words let off the hook.

      • Taleya@aussie.zone
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        11 months ago

        yeah the real issue they need to come down hard on is disregard for oh&s in the building industry, poor education and worker exploitation. I expect this to happen around the same time my grandmother’s pig sprouts wings and takes flight.

    • x4740N@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Laminated / coated mdf is shit and it looses its colour in kitchen environments pretty quickly and stains are impossible to remove

      • wscholermann@aussie.zone
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        11 months ago

        Laminate bench tops make me gag. And sadly I have to look at mine every day until I’m in a position to renovate.

    • tau@aussie.zone
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      11 months ago

      What are the replacement materials?

      Laminated chipboard/MDF or natural stone mainly, depending on how expensive ones tastes and budget are. Still wouldn’t want to be breathing dust from either of those though…

      As another comment suggests stainless steel is another option, or perhaps even expoxied timber/bamboo. These do suffer from aesthetic and durability issues respectively though when it comes to trying to convince people to use them.

      • Fermion@feddit.nl
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        11 months ago

        Laminated wood products suck for countertops. If the sealing isn’t completely perfect and water is ever allowed to sit on a joint, the fibers will swell and you get a bump that progresses to a crumbly mess. The damage is not repairable without replacement either.

      • WaterWaiver@aussie.zoneOP
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        11 months ago

        N.B. Porcelain is a silicate. Clay dust exposure is one of the traditional causes of silicosis, potters are (mostly) taught to clean their workplaces with hoses not brooms.

        • wscholermann@aussie.zone
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          11 months ago

          You’re right but Porcelain contains very low amounts of silicate, typically less than 4 per cent I’ve read.

    • wscholermann@aussie.zone
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      11 months ago

      Wood is one option. More maintenance, yeah it can scratch. But it can also be sanded I guess.

      I’ve also read porcelain is another option.

      • Mango@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        No it isn’t.

        How about real stone? That’s pretty analogous to fake stone. Wood isn’t even pretending.

        • Peppycito@sh.itjust.works
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          11 months ago

          I’m sure you’ll find breathing stone dust doesn’t do you any favour’s either. Strange to be they banned the product instead of mandating wet saws or something.

        • wscholermann@aussie.zone
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          11 months ago

          I didn’t mean in the analogous sense. I just meant other materials that can be used for bench tops more broadly.

          And of course you can use real stone but be prepared to sell an organ to pay for it.

          • Zane@aussie.zone
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            11 months ago

            Funnily enough, we ended up with a very pretty real granite in our kitchen last year because it was 25% cheaper than the engineered options we found.

    • sil@aussie.zone
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      11 months ago

      There’s the acrylic polymer/stone blend like Corian. Though that might be the $$$ option.

  • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
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    11 months ago

    … someone correct me if I’m wrong, but this just sounds like some random local corruption story, right?

    Like, instead of passing & enforcing worker safety laws they just ban the (safe) product? The same type of diseases can workers get from eg processing cotton, flower, cement, and any fine-dusty thing really. And such things can be managed with safety precautions & exhaust filters (to not affect the broader local area over the years of dust buildup).

    The logical exceptions are things like asbestos where even the end product crumbles into dangerous particulates (that are even more irritating/cause serious problems at much lower quantities).

    Then again it really saddens me that we don’t invest more into like cellulose based materials (buildings, cutlery, bags, windows, cars, medical equipment, … limitless potential, can be made sustainable, & has the prospect of doing something good in the long run).

    Also with the same logic Australia could ban other things as well, like cocoa/chocolate imports, much of the fashion industry (dyes), and above all else - fossil fuels.

    As for the replacement materials for countertops - bamboo (pressed & oiled?) is great!

    • Benj1B@sh.itjust.works
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      11 months ago

      It’s a national news story thats come to light due to a large number of otherwise healthy, fairly young workers getting sick and dying from silicosis. The suggestion to ban came directly from the occupational safety watchdog, who are tasked with keeping workers safe. https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/safety-topic/hazards/crystalline-silica-and-silicosis is pretty comprehensive.

      In February they released a report (https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-02/decision_ris_-_managing_the_risks_of_crystalline_silica_at_work_-_for_publication_pdf.pdf) outlining exactly what you refer to, with 6 options for governments to consider. The ban on engineered stone is the most dramatic, and uses basically the same legal framework that was used to ban asbestos in the first place.

      Essentially they have been screaming at stonemasons and employees for 5 years to no avail, compliance with health and safety regulations in this area is atrocious, and no matter what laws you pass, more and more people are going to get sick and die from a preventable disease if you leave the stuff on the market.

      It’s only in recent years that the real dangers of silicate dust have been understood and it’s being banned for essentially the same reason asbestos was - it’s too hard to manage safely, and the most exposed people (workers) have to be protected. Asbestos is dangerous because it can get embedded in lung cells and not be exhaled - silicate dust is similar. Makes sense to me to put it in the same category especially if some poor bastards are dying from it.

  • FrankTheHealer@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    It was my understanding that silicosis can be prevented with proper adherence to safety standards and use of PPE. Is a flat out ban really necessary?

    • Dave.@aussie.zone
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      11 months ago

      Yes. Because tradies and their associated business owners simply can’t be fucked with using - or enforcing the use of - PPE.

      They’re also often dicking around trimming pieces during the final installation on site where eg bulk extraction and filtering of dust is “difficult”. Not “impossible” , merely difficult, and we all know difficult costs money and time.

      The industry was warned and didn’t do much in particular to sort themselves out, so here we are.