Professors from across the country have long been lured to Florida’s public colleges and universities, with the educators attracted to the research opportunities, student bodies, and the warm weather.
But for a swath of liberal-leaning professors, many of them holding highly coveted tenured positions, they’ve felt increasingly out of place in the Sunshine State. And some of them are pointing to the conservative administration of Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis as the reason for their departures, according to The New York Times.
DeSantis, who was elected to the governorship in 2018 and was easily reelected last fall, has over the course of his tenure worked to put a conservative imprint on a state where moderation was once a driving force in state politics. In recent years, DeSantis has railed against the current process by which tenure is awarded, and with a largely compliant GOP-controlled legislature, he’s imposed conservative education reforms across the state.
I’m sure republicans love that since it is their goal to replace them.
They won’t. They don’t want universities, because that implies more education.
What I suspect will probably happen is the universities will shrink or close, and/or lose their accreditation, further increasing their brain drain.
What I don’t understand is why no politician who’s against this has proposed an education act under the guise of national security.
What republicans are doing with education is very dangerous. Stupid voters are easy to manipulate, which seems to be the goal, but they have to do more than vote for the other 364 days a year. Having a poorly educated population means you have less engineers designing infrastructure, less trades people building that infrastructure, less doctors to treat injured and ill people, and less skilled professionals overall. The US is largely in the economic and geopolitical position that is in due to the manufacturing and research capacity we had after WW2. For decades, the US was where people went if they wanted to be at the bleeding edge of design/research, because we had very good higher education and the skilled manufacturing to bring those designs to life. Attacking education only hastens the decline of that legacy. A few decades like this means the US will no longer be able to make the advanced military equipment used to project power across the world, or US companies not being able to find people who can maintain, improve, and innovate on products without hiring foreign contractors. If Desantis’ attacks become a national thing, they’ll be putting the US on a fast track to rapid decline and economic collapse.
I agree with what you’ve said, but you’re missing something. Look at the U.S. as a whole. The brains who leave Florida aren’t generally going to Canada. They’re coming to California, or going to other more liberal, better educated, states.
Further, kids who grew up in the better-off states will continue to pursue higher education.
Republicans don’t need to control the entire population. Just enough of them
more liberal, better educated
definition of oxymoron
So what’s the alternative? More conservative, better educated? Is that oxymoron too or are you the moron?
Use progressive instead of liberal and they may not respond that way. It’s a super ambiguous term on the internet, and even more ambiguous on Lemmy.
DID I SAY THAT? NO. Why’s everyone here just jump to conclusions? fcuk man, this is why we’re in the state we are in politically. “If you’re not my friend, you’re my enemy”. There’s no such thing as nuance any more and we’re incredibly worse for it.
The conclusion is pretty clear in your comment: that liberals are uneducated. I’m inverting your logic to test if that holds and the conclusion there is that conservatives are educated. There’s not much nuance here and I called you a moron because your post makes a pretty moronic conclusion.
Conservatives strike me as less educated if you want to know what I think, but that’s a really broad generalization and it’s not a fact at all and just my opinion. That’s the nuance that your post completely missed. There just wasn’t much in your comment to glean any nuance anyways, and in fact I believe you are doing exactly what you are complaining about with the the not my friend rhetoric with making such comments in the first place.
Don’t make such polarizing comments if you don’t like how people respond. If you want to make the world a better place take a look at yourself and make change, as MJ said.
If Desantis’ attacks become a national thing, they’ll be putting the US on a fast track to rapid decline and economic collapse.
I doubt that’s the goal for many of them (because who wants to rule a castle that’s crumbled), but they have a fair number of accelerationists in their ranks who see Republicans as useful to their own goals.
As much as we try to paint them all as a fascist monolith, they have their own subgroups with their own awful end goals, and once the rapid decline has started, it is a lot easier for them to keep the momentum going.
You’re ignoring the big argument: less engineers and scientists to design and build next generation defense technology. America doesn’t give two shits until our ability to make bombs is threatened
Pretty sure that goes with “America won’t be able to field the advanced military equipment we use to project power across the world”
You’re right…but the core assumption is the Rs care about our place on the world stage. They don’t.
Part of the overall plan for the Rs is isolationism. They want to close the boarders and pull out of our trade agreements. Hell, I think Trump wants us out of NATO.
If we are alone over here on our big ass island, the people will be dumber, desperate, and much easier to brainwash.
The big picture is dystopian order for the US.
It’s ok, Florida’s going under the water anyway. Let reasonable people while they can.
So any way you slice it, this is not a loss for Republicans, they’re getting precisely what they want here. Unintended consequences? Probably, but they’re too blinded by their belief in their own superiority to be able to imagine any.
It just means that science communicators on the internet are becoming vitally important, so the young can still access quality information.
It might be a double edged sword, but unless Republicans can stem the flow of information on the internet (and they have and are trying different ways to do that), this is a battle that they have no chance of winning.
It just means that science communicators on the internet are becoming vitally important, so the young can still access quality information.
That’ll only work until the Internet is drowned out by fake AI bot science videos and blogs, stressing certain narratives.
YouTube is already today fighting those videos, AI generated trash science stuff.
It’s happening now, today. That’s why I always rage against shills and bots, because it really will mean the death of communication for Humanity if it goes to its logical conclusion. And when Humanity doesn’t communicate, War is not far behind.
can stem the flow of information on the internet (and they have and are trying different ways to do that), this is a battle that they have no chance of winning.
If you pollute the virtual ‘Town Square’ badly enough, those who want communication to not happen will win.
It’s worth mentioning that AI has a self correcting factor. If we can’t tell what’s AI output and what isn’t, AI is going to be trained itself on AI output, which breaks it.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but it’s good to remember that the “public square” is vast. Poisoning it isn’t going to be as simple as poisoning 4chan.
Also, on the topic of AI, what if their information-gathering improves over time, too? Sure, there will be bad versions, but there are already bad human actors, and we’ve mostly learned how to identify and fact check them.
I think your scenario is certainly reasonable, but I don’t think it’s the only option, either. Plus, I’ve already seen people saying things like, “That sounds like an AI wrote it.” Current and future generations may simply learn to detect AI and take any claims skeptically.
Either way, hard to say what the future holds with any real accuracy.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but it’s good to remember that the “public square” is vast.
Well there’s one Facebook, there’s one Twitter/X, there’s one Reddit (or two if you want to count Lemmy), etc. Not as vast as you might think.
Bots are very fast and inexpensive to use and can be done multiplicatively very easily.
I hope you’re right, but I don’t have your confidence in the future that you seem to do.
I have the striking feeling that ‘Jews will not replace them.’
There has never been a project in my life that I walked away from that I regretted later doing that.
Here is the delusion: you stick it out, you triumph when you should have failed, you made a difference, and people love you for it.
Here is what really happens: you stick it out until you are broken/fired, you got some wins and took some Ls, you didn’t make a difference because the disaster is bigger than you are, and everyone blames you for not being good enough.
Don’t mix your success with their failure. Don’t be a hero to people who don’t want to be rescued. If Florida is making your job hard to do the best thing you can do is head north.
Needed to hear these words, very applicable to my current environment. Cheers :)
I grew up in a town of under 500 people deep in the Northern Appalachian mountains. If you work at it, it gets better. I never visit home and am upper middle class yuppy liberal atheist.
Take control of your life, move away from that crap. When you get to NYC send me a message, buy you a fancy latte or an IPA.
Cheers. Since this, I’ve got an incredible offer in Providence & just submitted my one month at my current environment. Very excited for the future 😁
:)
My brother went to New College. It was a great alternative school where people like my brother, who did not do well in conventional public school, were able to thrive. DeSantis destroyed that. It’s criminal.
Good for them. Everyone should bail on that piece of shit. Show future pieces of shit that pieces of shit won’t be tolerated.
I’m actually interested in the outcome.
All leaving does is turn Florida more red. Stay and vote!
I guess you and others could always move there and try to move the needle.
Right, let me leave my home to go to increasingly red and shitty Florida all because I want to add one more blue vote. No thanks, I want to flood the state with MAGAs and flood it with hurricanes.
Let’s instead designate Florida the MAGA containment state and convince anyone living in a “too woke” swingstate to move there.
Right, they’ll gerrymander themselves into one state
We can build a wall around Florida
Make them pay for it
Midwest retirees are way ahead of you
I do live here. Why do you think I care so much?
It’s weird that so often the reaction to people on the right trying fascism is for people on the left to quit jobs, move away, and forfeit votes. These things don’t seem part of a winning strategy.
People will go where they’re wanted/needed. Academics and doctors should ABSOLUTELY bail when the system they work under fails them so miserably.
The rest will follow suit and all that remains will be what all the conservatives deserve: nothing.
And for the record- they’re not “trying” fascism, they’re DOING fascism.
I agree with most of what you said. One issue, and it’s a big issue, there’s one other group that won’t leave: the vulnerable. People who are too poor or don’t have support to leave will be left behind. It is their vulnerability preventing them from leaving that will likely be their vulnerability staying. The bad things happen gradually and you adjust for them a little bit each time, until you can’t adjust anymore and you’re stuck.
That said, I can’t blame anyone for leaving/wanting to leave.
The rest will follow suit and all that remains will be what all the conservatives deserve: nothing.
That would almost be OK, except because of the way the U.S. Senate works, this makes fascism at the federal level 2 steps behind the reddest states.
No it’s not just the senate. If people keep running away to a handful of “nice” states and give up on the others, then bye bye House. Bye bye Executive branch. Bye bye Judicial branch.
And then you’ll get the same dumbasses wondering why their nice place isn’t so nice anymore.
If people keep running away to a handful of “nice” states
I feel like it’s only people who don’t actually live in these places or, if they do, aren’t the current targets of christian fascist terrorism (yet) who actually say insensitive, tone deaf, privileged shit like this.
When your actual safety is under threat because of the majority ideology where you live, you gtfo. If you look at history (which is all real stuff that actually happened…) the academics were always right after the LGBTQ community. Then writers and artists and musicians. Look at Germany and the multiple South American countries the US helped to destroy.
Florida is not Nazi Germany. It is if you consume all your news from lemmy headlines, but in real life it is not. It and the rest of America can be if people keep moving away - like I said in my original comment.
You go live in a Christo-fascist shit hole. I’d rather take my family and go live somewhere safe, sane and better educated.
I’m in one of these shit holes, and what’s frustrating about your attitude is the privilege behind it assuming all of us can leave.
I never said everyone can leave, I never even implied it.
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Similarly, today, when all the votes in your area have been neutralized by extreme gerrymandering
Exactly the wrong way to look at it. The way to overcome gerrymandering is to push higher turnout.
Short version is that in order to do that kind of extreme gerrymandering successfully, they have to make assumptions about what the vote will look like. One of those assumptions is that Dem turnout is lower than GOP turnout, because it is - GOP treat voting like a civic duty, Dems generally don’t. This is why putting even mild roadblocks in front of voting (like having ID, or waiting in line, or w/e) favor the GOP - GOP voters will jump through whatever hoops are necessary to do their civic duty, Dems get dissuaded from voting with much less effort.
What this means is that if Dems turnout in force, they win. In most places they outnumber GOP, even in gerrymandered maps - they just have to actually vote en masse.
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Enjoy it while it lasts, which will not be long if nobody is willing to resist.
The best time to resist is before it is overrun with regressive extremists.
I don’t blame anyone for getting out now that it’s a total shit hole.
The best time to resist is before it is overrun with regressive extremists.
So you’re saying we lost and should retreat? To where? If we all give up and move, by the time we’re settled in fascism will have followed us.
It’s like this, I’m not going to fault anyone who decided to get out of Germany in the 1930’s. Similarly, I can’t blame people who prefer to leave for greener pastures rather than deal with Christian White Nationalist a-holes everyday.
What a lot of people here don’t realize is a fascist USA will still affect them even if they move abroad.
It would be a bad strategy if people’s main goal in life was to influence national politics, but it’s not.
yeah everybody knows the only way to stop fascism is by voting
Eventually Florida will have no GDP, no productive members of society, etc… it’ll just be a bunch of trashy people with no money contributing to nothing. All of the businesses will leave the state, and the fascists can rule over a wasteland while the rest of the country moves on and tries to forget Florida even exists.
The Red State Brain Drain continues. Professors leaving Florida. OB/GYN doctors leaving Texas.
Why would you want to work in a place that criminalizes your job?
some people love the taste of the boot
right? crazy how many professors you see arrested on cnn every day.
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I have a PhD and wrote an article (that no one will ever read) obliquely criticizing Trump and every once in a while I wonder if that is what will get me shot… but it will probably be the pipe bombs.
You guys sound like fucking Jehova’s Witnesses.
Keep being you and making the world a better place. Buy a gun anyway. I don’t want rednecks to be the only people with firearms during the next election.
You write it like it’s already happening. It’s not. Stop the fake outrage.
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Yeah, communism happened in the past too. There are no professors being prosecuted and flogged in the streets of Florida. get over it.
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Like when Florida went after the medical whistleblower
Or that state statistician that wouldn’t fudge the official numbers for old Rhonda.
with the educators attracted to the research opportunities, student bodies, and the warm weather.
Possibly could have phrased that better, but OK.
with the educators attracted to the research opportunities, students bodies, and the warm weather.
That better?
Yes, I think that is factual now. Thanks.
Imma guess that they knew what they were doing when they phrased it like that
Maybe I’m wrong but this isn’t good for anyone. Brain drain on the south only bolsters the southern strategy and will hand over the electoral college to the uninformed
So it’s good for DeSantis
And whatever ilk follows in it’s footstep
Exactly. Being driven out is what the GOP aims to do so it can win those important states like some red and swing states
A nice unintended effect is that it’s causing Republicans in swing states to move to these deep red strongholds. They’re consolidating their base, but securing a state that may be slipping at the cost of losing swing states is a recipe for losing the electoral college.
Edit: Not to mention, all these doctors and professors have to go somewhere. If they go to a swing state that’s a pretty much guaranteed blue vote.
and opens up tons of positions to be filled by crony idiots.
Yup, this is a exactly what a person like DeSantis and his supporters want.
That can be true while at the same time it can be true that it isn’t worth destroying your quality of life to fight when you can move to somewhere where people don’t irrationally hate you for no good reason.
yeah this is something that needs to be regulated by stronger worker rights
The article keeps saying “conservative” when the correct descriptors would be “fascist”, “bigoted” and “anti-education”.
the
conservativefascist administration of Republican Gov. Ron DeSantisworked to put a[n]
conservativeanti-education imprint on [the] statewith a largely compliant GOP-controlled legislature, he’s imposed
conservativebigoted education reforms across the state.The conservative platform is all of those things, so it’s completely fair to call it that. The entire party is rotten to the core because they are simply ok with being the party of all of those things.
I think it is also fair to call them regressives since they are more interested in returning us to an earlier configuration of society than simply maintaining the status quo.
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I’m not defending “normal conservatives” and other delusional participants in hate from being associated with this kind of barbarism. My gripe is with threefold:
1: Don’t just repeat the same word when synonyms and even better suited words exist. It’s lazy writing and annoying to read
2: More importantly, the rise of fascism and related far right demagoguery is a worldwide emergency, not least an American one.
When venerated right wing and/or centrist outlets such as Business Insider, CNN and New York Times keep calling fascism conservatism, they not only ignore the crisis and thus the need to adress it, they severely hinder anyone calling it out from being taken seriously, much less doinh anything to fight it.
The only University staff that most people care about is whoever is coaching the Gators or the Seminoles.
Florida > Highest paid public employee: Dan Mullen; University of Florida football coach > Annual salary: $6,070,000 > 2nd highest paid public employee: Willie Taggart; Florida Atlantic University football coach > Annual salary: $5,000,000 > 3rd highest paid public employee: Josh Heupel; University of Central Florida football coach
It’s depressing how common that is.
Holy fuck. Almost every state. Red state or blue state, doesn’t matter. Almost always the football coaches. Meanwhile, the person running the booth at the DMV takes home what, $20 an hour maybe?
Haha, about twenty years ago, I was working at a Honda dealership as a lot rat, bringing a used car in for an emissions check; there was a sign at the facility saying they were hiring, for competitive wages. I asked what they were paying, and the tech took a long drag on her cigarette and mumbled, “Minimum.”
So the DMV clerk is probably not even making $20.
I don’t know what DMV clerks make, but in general, low-end government jobs pay somewhat better than low-end jobs in other fields. They also usually come with at least decent, if not good, health insurance.
So in that sense, even the worst job at the DMV is better than a lot of other jobs. But they still should be better paid, as should we all, and that certainly makes paying a football coach millions of dollars a year hard to justify. The “football makes lots of money” argument doesn’t wash for me. Not even for sports. I’m in Indiana. Basketball coaches should be the top paid sports coach positions if this is solely about making money. But it’s still football coaches. I can tell you as a former IU student who also grew up in Bloomington that IU basketball is much bigger than IU football. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure back in the 80s, Bob Knight wasn’t the highest-paid public employee despite being one of the most recognized coaches in the country.
But I don’t think any sports coach should be the highest paid public employee, so that’s sort of moot.
If it makes you feel better… college football is big business. Schools make shit loads off the broadcast and advertising rights.
(And then shaft the players that attract that dough under some argument if ‘sportsmanship’ or something.)
ROI for college football is just that high.
That is the same justification for excessive CEO pay. It’s bullshit in both cases.
I agree, but that is how the business world operates. It’s tunnel vision.
Governments are not businesses, nor should they operate like businesses.
That info is old, FSU’s coach got paid over $8M to be screwed out of the playoffs :
And doesn’t Florida have someone else now, too?
I stand corrected. Went with the first result. Silly me.
Shit. For five million, I’d shout random bullshit that sounds inspirational and doodle squiggles on a chalk board!
What could go wrong… it’s just guys in tights chasing other guys in tights…. Right?
Old joke.
PE teacher tells his class that he’s the smartest teacher in the school. Everyone else has to wear nice clothes every day and deal with tough questions. All the coach has to do is show up in sneakers and tell kids to run laps.
I get why they’re doing it,
But what exactly do they think is going to happen when those highly coveted positions get filled by people complacent or supportive of DeSantis’ agenda?The university system in Florida will get worse? Why should professors feel obligated to try to save Florida’s higher ed system?
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I’ve met many, and in 20+ years of knowing them, I know many more ex-teachers than those still teaching because our education system does not value their work and actively makes it incredibly hard for them.
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So then you realize your statement is meaningless because many of those teachers that 100% take the burden on themselves and fill the gaps out of their own pocketbook still wash out after some time.
And even if they don’t, the few that remain do not deserve the load that society has already saddled them with, and they certainly shouldn’t be used as the example of how real teachers will take on any new hardship for the children no matter the load.
I’m sure there are some teachers that will work for free, but don’t tell the republicans because they’d try to staff public schools entirely with volunteers.
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Teachers don’t give up on students. They do give up on institutions.
Florida is going to be a wasteland of inbred morons in 20 years if it’s not under water.
Florida is going to be a wasteland of inbred morons in 20 years if it’s not under water.
Yes, but they still have 2 senators. Do this to enough states and you’ve effectively eliminated democracy.
Maybe if popular vote was a thing.
I’m just saying leaving isn’t going to improve the situation. If they’re leaving because they don’t want to do it anymore, that’s fine and I don’t blame them at all.
But if they think they’re making some kind of protest or statement by resigning, it won’t change anything and will arguably make the problem worse.They’re not empowered to improve the situation. The only thing they can do is resign in protest and make a statement about why they are leaving. They should stay and suffer while the institutions they work for crumble?
Why would you stay working at a job where people are actively finding ways to fire you and you might get caught up in a literal witch hunt because someone decided that you are teaching “Anti-Christian Scientific Theories on Planetary Orbits” or whatever the latest stupidity there is?
But also? They ARE improving the situation. Florida is increasingly a lost cause where students get stupider by the year (and sometimes month). College professors are not qualified or trained in teaching basic education and all it does is take away time that can be spent teaching their passions… or whatever they got saddled with because they brought the wrong color of jello to the last department party.
But also? If someone decides “Well, Florida sucks but Professor Oliver does really interesting research work.” and puts themselves in that shithole? There is an argument that Professor Oliver is actively causing harm.
Probably most realize moving out makes the situation in FL worse. Those that move probably prioritize improving their own situation. Maybe some think this will give a wake up call to DeSantis but if it is anything like mass resignations in a corporate setting, the kind of management that cultivates that kind of hostility also is unlikely to get the message; they certainly won’t blame themselves for anything.
I mean, to the professors themselves? Nothing. To the university system? Arguably, what the people of Florida want and deserve
It’s nice to say one would stay on principle and try and change things /fight back, but in reality, it’s a huge emotional and professional drain, especially on families. I’ve personally drawn a line at applying for positions in Florida
That said, I’ve got a number of friends who work as professors in Florida and they haven’t given any indication this affects them, or they’re even remotely interested in leaving. Professors have high mobility and move often, especially if they have a competing (better) offer. The turnover rate only increased by 2% in the last year, according to the article…
Arguably, what the people of Florida want and deserve
Try considering the polling places per capita of blue versus red counties and several other kinds of voter suppression before you go victim blaming millions of people.
it’s a huge emotional and professional drain, especially on families.
Fighting fascism is not going to be easy, convenient, safe, or anything like that, but it’s still worth it.
Fighting fascism is not going to be easy, convenient, safe, or anything like that, but it’s still worth it.
Then the fascists should start fighting it, no? Why are you not pointing your multiple comments at them?
Why is it up to the rest of us to clean up their messes when they can so easily just stay in place, destroy everything they don’t like, and create the POC-free, LGBTQIA-free, non-Christian-free, democracy-free “Gilead” utopia they long for?
We already have historical evidence to tell us exactly how this is going to end. I don’t want to be there when it does – and it inevitably will. Badly.
Do you think they should stay in a hostile work environment dealing with reform policies they disagree with but have no power to change? If you get why they are leaving, what else is there for them to do? It’s not a protest, it’s people choosing to leave jobs they are no longer happy doing under the circumstances forced upon them.
Doing something for the greater good is admirable. But you can’t expect everyone to do it and even those who do can’t always spend a lifetime doing it. I’m sure these professors have considered the exact scenario you brought up, but at the same time they have to enjoy their life and raise families in a place that isn’t hostile to them.
The silver-lining in Florida becoming solid red is that maybe - just maybe - we see an end to the Cuba embargo. But democrats will loose a critical Florida voting block! And? Like having the anti-Cubans on our side will help us take Florida anymore.
Good old Florida. Who needs fancy-pants professors when you’ve got a gater on a leash?
It’s not a bug, it’s a feature according to Republicans.
I’ve got my share of “cases of the corporate Mondays”, and it is chock full of its own brand of ghoulery, but I’m so glad I jumped ship from academia. So many of my colleagues are stuck in some awful situations.
Granted, some that tried to jump weren’t lucky enough to cross the gap, and are stuck in THAT awful situation.
With the ratio of adjunct to tenured faculty, the state of obtaining tenure, and the increasingly toothless nature of tenure, not to mention these goons doing everything they can to demonize education at all levels that isn’t a 5 page child’s board story book of Noah’s Ark…
He’s a scary person.
