JERUSALEM (AP) — The head of surgery at Gaza’s largest and most advanced hospital held up his phone Saturday to the hammering of gunfire and artillery shelling. “Listen,” said Dr. Marwan Abu Sada as fighting raged around Shifa Hospital.

  • enkers@sh.itjust.works
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    1 year ago

    Kinda similar to the “human shields” argument. When I read comics growing up, when a villain takes a hostage the answer was never “kill the hostage” except for the edgiest of antiheroes, yet here we are with “human shields” being used as a justification to kill civilians. It’s fucking wild.

    • ninjan@lemmy.mildgrim.com
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      1 year ago

      This exactly is my main gripe with how Israel is conducting this war. They’re completely unwilling to take any additional risk to preserve civilian life.

      • constate368@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Even the US sent troops in to kill a scumbag like Uday Hussein instead of bombing with an airstrike.

        This is just the Zionist creed of “unlimited Palestinian deaths don’t make up for 1 Israeli.”

        • Aceticon@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          That’s why concluded that the Israeli leadership at the moment are full-blown Fascists: their treatment of people who they see as “not us” as subhuman and the style and intensity of their propaganda entirelly anchored on blaming the victim and them providing a variety of unverifiable excuses for their own killings which are even inconsistent amongst each other (often the excuses for different bombings have inconsistent criteria, which means they’re to a large extent arbitrary or the excuses are being made up after the fact and hence false) are quite the throwback to quite a style of Fascism which is almost a century old and manage to exceed just about everybody since WWII.

          Even Russia in its invasion of Ukraine did not get this close to the historical worse kinds of Fascism, probably because the Russians are nowhere as racist towards Ukranians as Israelis are towards Arabs, especially Palestinians.

      • Glytch@ttrpg.network
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        1 year ago

        this war

        You mean “this genocide”. They don’t see civilians, they see targets for extermination.

      • TheYang@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Well, the US has shown that they couldn’t fight an insurgency with their level of protections for civilians.
        Makes sense that Israel assesses that they have less resources than the US, and thus can’t fight the same way and have a hope of success.

        Of course they could have used that as a pretty good reason not to start this war in the first placez but alas, they didn’t.

        • Goblin_Mode@ttrpg.network
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          1 year ago

          What argument are you making here? Your first paragraph implies you believe that Isreal is justified in it’s approach based on the US’s failed conflicts with Guerilla warfare. But then your second paragraph implies that Isreal is not justified for exactly that reason, which is like… Yeah… That’s correct lol.

          I feel like it shouldn’t be a controversial opinion to say that if you are unable to conduct a war without massive civilian casualties then you shouldn’t be conducting that war. If you do anyway you are, at the very best, a war criminal.

          • gravitasium@discuss.tchncs.de
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            1 year ago

            This is, actually, an absurd opinion. Massive civilian casualties are inseparable from war, and you will be hard pressed to find a war without them.

            The laws of war are built around, and exist because of, this assumption. They exist to give a framework that sets forth principles by which the loss of life can be evaluated.

            Otherwise, by your definition, every warring faction ever is a war criminal.

            • Goblin_Mode@ttrpg.network
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              1 year ago

              Wow, that is an insanely obtuse interpretation of what I said.

              Of course there are always civilian casualties In war. Of course that is why war crimes exist in the first place.

              “Massive” literally means “Large in comparison to what is typical”. So when I say massive civilian cassualties forgive me for assuming you’d understand I was using that word for it’s intended purpose.

              Bombing a hospital full of civilians is absolutely a war crime.

        • Count042@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Israel stated this war, at a minimum, 17 years ago. Blockades are an act of war.

        • cogman@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Makes sense that Israel assesses that they have less resources than the US, and thus can’t fight the same way and have a hope of success.

          Israel has one of the most powerful militaries in the region, with 500,000 troops, a $20 billion dollar budget, and shared tech with the US. They have no external bases to maintain. They’re terrorists who live at the border in 140 square miles with roads Israel designed to allow their tanks easy access.

          In the first week of this genocide, Israel dropped more bombs than the US did during the entire Afghanistan war. On one of the most population dense regions in the world.

          But further, Israel immediately cut power and water to Gaza. 2 million people went without water and electricity to attack how many Hamas terrorists?

          And let’s be clear, this all happened because IDF forces were busy in the West Bank evicting Palestinians from their homes for settlers leaving the Gaza border unguarded.

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          The US absolutely fought an insurgency. They just figured out they needed local support. They got it in Iraq, they didn’t get it in Afghanistan.

          That’s Israel’s biggest problem here. They’ve spent the last several decades making Palestinians hate them. So there is no possible way for them to destroy Hamas.

    • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      I wonder if a lot of people’s idea of war has been shaped by the recent American occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, which were wars of choice where at least in theory American soldiers were fighting largely for the benefit of the natives. Countries that believe they actually need to win and don’t have the option of just giving up and going home fight wars in a very different way. Consider for example World War II, the proverbial “good versus evil” war fought by the generation that originally came up with the comic book characters you read about. The Allies certainly didn’t hesitate to kill enormous numbers of Axis civilians in the course of destroying military targets. (IMO the Allies actually went way too far and a lot of the strategic bombing of Germany and Japan served no military purpose, but I suppose they were more worried about bombing too little than they were about bombing too much.)

      • Nobody@lemmy.worldOP
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        1 year ago

        The total war tactics of WW2 are unthinkable by modern standards, but it’s hard not to sympathize with an outgunned army fighting for their home. They fight because they’d rather die than lose.

        Maybe instead of fighting people in that position, you talk to them and work out a peace deal. If they’re willing to be reasonable, end the violence.

        • fiah@discuss.tchncs.de
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          1 year ago

          If they’re willing to be reasonable

          they’ve shown time and time again, through actions and words, that they are not

              • fluke@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Didn’t happen in a vacuum though, did it.

                Do not confuse me saying that with sympathising with Hamas. It is possible to recognise that both sides have bloody hands, and have done for decades.

                • steventhedev@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Can you explain what you mean by “Didn’t happen in a vacuum”?

                  Best I can figure is that you disagree with the act itself, but agree with their motives or desires. But I really don’t want to assume, and would prefer to understand from you.

                  • Evkob@lemmy.ca
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                    1 year ago

                    If I keep poking you in the eye for decades, wouldn’t you eventually get tired of it and punch me in the face?

              • Count042@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Israel attacked, at a minimum, 17 years ago.

                Blockading a country is an act of war.