“Zelensky follows the laws in the Ukraine Constitution while the country continues to be at war”
- FTFY, dickbag headline writer
Yeah didn’t this come up as a clickbait non-issue last year?
I wonder how many people actually have a problem with this. Very few I’d suspect. Zelensky still seems popular within Ukraine, and I think most would agree that this isn’t a good time for a change in leadership. Plus elections are expensive and nobody in the occupied space would be able to vote. Yeah I think this was the right call.
Yes. This is a inflammatory headline purely to try and push an agenda.
There was literally a poll a couple of months ago that showed something like 80% of Ukrainians were in favour of not having elections.
Not to even mention that Ukraine is under Marshall Law, and per their laws disallows elections. And don’t even get me started on the entire premise of running elections in a country where a quarter of the landmass is under enemy occupation and the logistics of getting votes from 100s of thousands of deployed troops and the serious security concerns of the election itself from Russian attacks.
In my opinion Newsweek have just outed themselves here and the question is for who?
Probably trying to paint a narrative that Zelensky is undemocratic and corrupt, which some people in the US might believe.
Most of my Ukranian friends would not vote for him in an election, it’s a bit of an ‘open secret’ in the country that he’s seen as a wartime leader who would be expected to step aside in peacetime.
It’s not much of a secret, he has said so himself.
Did he at least whisper it?
He was a stand up comedian before? Seems like he thought he’d be a peacetime leader.
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Why would they choose someone else, though?
Because he barely had any experience in diplomatic relations before being thrust into Ukrainian Ultimate Commander. He unfortunately has become a wartime politician, even though that was never his intentions.
So you think it’s better to choose someone else because of experience diplomatic relations?
Are there other people in Ukraine who are considered to be preferred for the job when the war ends?
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false equivalence to the extreme
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as to the elections, it’s not unusual to postpone elections in the midst of a defensive war.
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- France, 1914-1918 war: no elections
- UK, 1939-1945: No general elections were held during the Second World War until Allied victory was assured via acts of Parliament; hence the 1935 House sat until 1945. (per Wikipedia)
Shall I continue?
Yes continue.
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Newsweek is trash for that headline.
Usually they have a “fairness meter” on their articles, but it seems to be missing from this one.
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I don’t think this is unreasonable. Citizens in occupied territory won’t be able to vote and elections would just add pressure to a country that’s fighting a major conflict on its own soil.
However I would expect Zelensky to hold free and fair elections as soon as the conflict ends, especially if he wants Ukraine to be part of the EU and eventually NATO
How do you expect Elections to work? All the soldiers take a few hours off of fighting to put their ballots in?
The rest of the citizens amass themselves in a few concentrated areas?
People who are being bombed or in hiding from russia leave their shelters and are exposed for the day? I’m sure if they wear an official uniform, that Russian soldiers won’t be tempted to copy the uniform, and replace the ballots.
So, who wants to volunteer to hand out the ballot papers? I’m sure Putin would be more than happy to
I can see his point. They’re in the middle of a fight for their existence. Why would you hold an election, particularly if he’s doing a good job of it? Yes, I concede that this is a slippery slope for democracy, in that this is the very rationale that dictators use to shore up power. However, the grounds that they make those claims are usually against imagined foes rather than an actual country invading yours.
Day 1 after they kick russia out permanently? Election.
Day 1 after they kick russia out permanently? Election.
You’d actually want to schedule it a bit further out than this. Once the war is over, political parties will need to time organize, build infrastructure and campaign in an environment where the weather isn’t “sunny with a chance of bombs later”. Holding elections, with any sort of opposition having not had time to campaign is one of the more insidious anti-democratic tricks. As it leads to people voting for the “devil they know”, even if the opposition isn’t a devil at all.
I’m with you, I’m just being illustrative here.
Guess what the Americans and Brits did to the Italians after WW2? You might be surprised at the answer.
Why would you hold an election, particularly if he’s doing a good job of it?
Well, that’s up for debate and should be decided by the people. As you said: It’s a slippery slope and I’ll add the way to hell is paved with good intentions.
it’s not that he is refusing to hold elections. headline is, of course, misleading.
the country’s constitution literally prohibits elections during martial law, a state the country has been in since the day russia started the war.
Sounds like a democracy we should continue supporting right??
Yes
They’re being actively invaded. What did you expect? Voting booths in occupied territory?
Can’t tell if just dumb or disingenuous.
Constitutions can be changed (Alabama’s 6th constitution was amended 977 times before they made a 7th constitution last year, for example). Headline is definitely inflammatory, but just because you happen to be in the position of dictator doesn’t mean can’t work towards not being one.
As an Alabamian. We are NOT a role model to anyone for anything. If anything we are a cautionary tale of how not to do things. Like, your argument is deeply flawed the second you say “You could do what Alabama did”.
A broken clock is still right twice a day.
Not when it’s smashed to pieces, scattered all over a landfill
So they amend their constitution. During a war. To force people into the streets to vote.
How does the government make sure the election is fair? Some people won’t be able to vote due to danger. Some will be attacked. Some areas are occupied, and the occupation lines may change during the election.
If they tried to run an election now, Russia would publish their own results showing that the occupied areas voted for Putin. Trying to run elections is hard enough in normal times, doing so with Russia literally holding a large swath of your country is impossible.
Amending the constitution or holding national elections (among other things) are prohibited during martial law.
Pass a new constitution then. Could be identical minus those two things.
What exactly is the process for a complete replacement in the constitution in Ukraine? Is it something that can feasibly be accomplished during wartime?
Edit: apparently the process is “you can’t” https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/389-19#Text (Article 19 Section 1)
So basically there is no way for Zelensky to change anything about the situation without just fraglantly breaking the law (or declaring an end to martial law during wartime, which would be beyond stupid). Pretty hard to argue he’s a “dictator” when literally all he’s doing is following the law that was out in place well before he was elected.
Now, if the war ends and he still refuses to hold a election, I’ll be right with you in calling for action, but I fail to see any fault with his current course on this specific issue
An old constitution can’t control a new one. Its literally replacing the old one. Nothing it says is relevant.
So, in your opinion - in order for Zelensky to not be a dictator, he has to break all the existing rules of law in order to completely replace the existing constitution? And he should be allowed to do this unilaterally? And this would make him not a dictator? He’s not a fucking monarch dude, he’s the elected head of state - he doesn’t have supreme authority to do whatever the fuck he feels like.
The foundation of democracy is the idea that our elected officials have to abide by the rules of law that are already in place, including (and especially) those laws that concern how other laws are made. Otherwise any elected official could just declare themselves the new supreme ruler and toss out every law that limits their power.
And that’s all putting aside the question of how you would even hold an election in war ravaged Ukraine right now, a significant portion of which is under hostile occupation lol
And I bet “Zelensky amends Ukraine’s constitution during wartime” would make similar headlines.
There’s fair criticism to be made of Zelensky, I’m sure. However, not holding an election during wartime, which is backed by the constitution and most Ukrainians, is not one of them.
Not really criticizing him. My criticism is the weird constitution worship used as non-argument that simply begs the question.
but just because you happen to be in the position of dictator doesn’t mean can’t work towards not being one.
I’m pretty sure he’s been doing everything he possibly can do to get out of this state of martial law, so I suppose that’ll be satisfying for you?
Seems reasonable for now.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
“We all understand that now, in wartime, when there are many challenges, it is utterly irresponsible to engage in topics related to an election in such a frivolous manner,” Zelensky said in his nightly video address to the nation on Monday.
Prior to the war, Ukraine’s presidential elections were scheduled for March 2024, but the country’s constitution mandates that they cannot go ahead until any declaration of martial law is lifted, which is unlikely to happen in the near future.
Zelensky first declared martial law on February 24, 2022, the day Russian President Vladimir Putin launched a full-scale invasion of his country.
Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council Secretary Alexey Danilov has also said that “no elections can be held” under martial law in the country.
Days earlier, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said during an online appearance at the World Policy Conference in the United Arab Emirates that Zelensky was weighing the pros and cons of a presidential vote in spring 2024.
The Ukrainian leader’s approval rating in Ukraine remains near the record-highs set shortly after Russia’s full-scale invasion of the country began, data from Gallup shows.
The original article contains 423 words, the summary contains 188 words. Saved 56%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
I’d be interested to see the comments if this were Putin.
Feel free to check back in with us when Russia is the victim of a major invasion
I’m just not sure why being the invaded party is the deciding factor here. Do the people not get a say in who leads their defense, only their offense?
Ok so you’re being intentionally obtuse. Got it 👍
No, I’m not. Could you please at least engage in the conversation if you’re going to reply?
they don’t owe you shit, troll. begone
Having a different perspective than you doesn’t make me a troll. I never thought I’d be called a troll for saying maybe they should conduct an election.
violating their own constitution. fuck off, you know what you’re doing. you’re being disingenuous and arguing in bad faith
Really disappointing how quickly the west turned on Ukraine so they could go off to fund a genocide. They really are min-maxing for fascism.
Did you read a different article?
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A pure and true example of Democracy™ which all European countries should imitate. Elections are a waste of money, and if there is more than one party are a threat to political stability. Let’s abolish all elections altogether./s
Churchill also did not hold elections during WWII either. Wartime requirements for a country under attack from an outside force take precedent.
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Tell me, how is Zelinsky not a fascist? He and his government has been persecuting the Ukrainian Orthodox Church for well over a year now, countless Nazi groups in his military wearing pagan Nazi symbols. Heck, Canada recently “honored” a general that was literally in the Nazi army back in WW2 and Zelinski said he’s a “Ukrainian hero”