I also think you overestimate how many western people are rich by this standard. For example, nobody I know would be part of the 10% here by that income, and I live in Norway.
And really, you really don’t need more than that to live a good and luxurious life. In fact I think you don’t even need to be anywhere close to that, even. Especially if you implement some actual rent controls, lower incomes are plenty fine.
I also think you overestimate how many western people are rich by this standard.
Still, many might be surprised at how many people they know or encounter who are rich by this standard. In a globally wealthy country, in the areas generally wealthy, you’re going to find “rich” people all over the place.
Well, maybe, I guess it isn’t really surprising to me. I certainly do think many in the upper middle class are consuming far beyond what is reasonable, from cars, to massive homes, to vacation homes, to just the sheer amount of stuff they buy and throw out. It’s unnecessary, and not needed for a good and still luxurious life.
I also think you overestimate how many western people are rich by this standard. For example, nobody I know would be part of the 10% here by that income, and I live in Norway.
Sorry, I guess I subconsciously decided to err high when discussing somebody else’s wealth/success out of politeness, but I now realize this context is the exception!
As an American, I don’t think I’m underestimating how many Americans are rich by this standard, however. Heck, even most of us who don’t meet it still live the same kind of suburban, car-centric lifestyle as if we did. The people around you might not be the problem, but the people around me sure as fuck are!
And really, you really don’t need more than that to live a good and luxurious life. In fact I think you don’t even need to be anywhere close to that, even. Especially if you implement some actual rent controls, lower incomes are plenty fine.
100% agreed. I don’t want to absolve myself of my culpability as part of the problem (or undermine my thesis that most Americans don’t realize how much of a part of the problem they are, for that matter), but I have to admit that I try to live an abnormally frugal (and therefore possibly lower-carbon) lifestyle, and I’m very satisfied with it. I own a single-family house, but it’s a relatively-small one in a streetcar suburb. I own too many cars (mostly old project cars), but I put very few miles on them because my wife and I both bicycle for almost all commuting and errands. My family lives comfortably on spending that’s not too far above the federal poverty level, which means we do a lot of cooking instead of eating out and get a lot of our durable goods used instead of new. (Side note: it’s crazy what some of the folks around here throw out: I’ve got a giant, 8’ tall, solid-wood, built-in hutch in my dining room that I found on the side of the road! Luckily, I own a utility trailer – which was also given to me for free – or I’d have never gotten it home.) Finally, although my income is typically quite a bit higher – we aim for a very high savings rate – it’s never been so high as to come anywhere near the “global 10% income” I cited earlier.
Anyway, point is: although I’m desperately trying not to be so naive as to think I’m the exception to my own claim about who’s part of the problem, I do think I have a perspective that gives me a better understanding than most about what lifestyle changes are needed to solve it and how they’re not as hard as people think.
Have you not seen like, housing projects? High rises? Run down old apartments? Everybody who doesn’t have the kind of money you do doesn’t live like they do anyway. Like, in terms of transportation, I spend my whole work day driving people around who don’t really have the money to spend on a cab but have the money to spend on a car even less.
That doesn’t mean they manage to pretend they’re rich anyway, it means they make sacrifices you’ve probably never once in your life had to think about.
When they do splurge to make themselves briefly comfortable, it’s at the cost of more sacrifices that you don’t have to deal with anymore if you ever did. And then they get to deal with people rolling their eyes about how financially irresponsible they are.
Meanwhile the same people who make six figures are literally relying on people who make minimum wage in order to make their own lives convenient. And yet somehow that’s supposed to end up with everyone magically living like you?
You live in a fantasy world. Not everybody has the time or the money to prioritize spending several hours cooking. Not everybody is left with enough energy by the end of their minimum wage no benefit grind of a day that you expect them to tolerate in order to sustain your hunger for little conveniences like places to go buy fresh food to cook for your family.
I also think you overestimate how many western people are rich by this standard. For example, nobody I know would be part of the 10% here by that income, and I live in Norway.
And really, you really don’t need more than that to live a good and luxurious life. In fact I think you don’t even need to be anywhere close to that, even. Especially if you implement some actual rent controls, lower incomes are plenty fine.
Still, many might be surprised at how many people they know or encounter who are rich by this standard. In a globally wealthy country, in the areas generally wealthy, you’re going to find “rich” people all over the place.
Well, maybe, I guess it isn’t really surprising to me. I certainly do think many in the upper middle class are consuming far beyond what is reasonable, from cars, to massive homes, to vacation homes, to just the sheer amount of stuff they buy and throw out. It’s unnecessary, and not needed for a good and still luxurious life.
Sorry, I guess I subconsciously decided to err high when discussing somebody else’s wealth/success out of politeness, but I now realize this context is the exception!
As an American, I don’t think I’m underestimating how many Americans are rich by this standard, however. Heck, even most of us who don’t meet it still live the same kind of suburban, car-centric lifestyle as if we did. The people around you might not be the problem, but the people around me sure as fuck are!
100% agreed. I don’t want to absolve myself of my culpability as part of the problem (or undermine my thesis that most Americans don’t realize how much of a part of the problem they are, for that matter), but I have to admit that I try to live an abnormally frugal (and therefore possibly lower-carbon) lifestyle, and I’m very satisfied with it. I own a single-family house, but it’s a relatively-small one in a streetcar suburb. I own too many cars (mostly old project cars), but I put very few miles on them because my wife and I both bicycle for almost all commuting and errands. My family lives comfortably on spending that’s not too far above the federal poverty level, which means we do a lot of cooking instead of eating out and get a lot of our durable goods used instead of new. (Side note: it’s crazy what some of the folks around here throw out: I’ve got a giant, 8’ tall, solid-wood, built-in hutch in my dining room that I found on the side of the road! Luckily, I own a utility trailer – which was also given to me for free – or I’d have never gotten it home.) Finally, although my income is typically quite a bit higher – we aim for a very high savings rate – it’s never been so high as to come anywhere near the “global 10% income” I cited earlier.
Anyway, point is: although I’m desperately trying not to be so naive as to think I’m the exception to my own claim about who’s part of the problem, I do think I have a perspective that gives me a better understanding than most about what lifestyle changes are needed to solve it and how they’re not as hard as people think.
Have you not seen like, housing projects? High rises? Run down old apartments? Everybody who doesn’t have the kind of money you do doesn’t live like they do anyway. Like, in terms of transportation, I spend my whole work day driving people around who don’t really have the money to spend on a cab but have the money to spend on a car even less.
That doesn’t mean they manage to pretend they’re rich anyway, it means they make sacrifices you’ve probably never once in your life had to think about.
When they do splurge to make themselves briefly comfortable, it’s at the cost of more sacrifices that you don’t have to deal with anymore if you ever did. And then they get to deal with people rolling their eyes about how financially irresponsible they are.
Meanwhile the same people who make six figures are literally relying on people who make minimum wage in order to make their own lives convenient. And yet somehow that’s supposed to end up with everyone magically living like you?
You live in a fantasy world. Not everybody has the time or the money to prioritize spending several hours cooking. Not everybody is left with enough energy by the end of their minimum wage no benefit grind of a day that you expect them to tolerate in order to sustain your hunger for little conveniences like places to go buy fresh food to cook for your family.