• Gazumi@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    How the hell can we ignore the mindless murdering of innocent families. This is not war it is the genocide that has been planned for a long time

      • burchalka@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        And continuous violence/genocide in Tigray region of Ethiopia. No one mass-protests those in NY, London or Berlin…

        • Lazylazycat@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I don’t think it’s difficult to understand that people feel moved by atrocities that are closer to them. The UK directly helped create present day Israel and the colonisation of Palestinian land. Our current government also supports Israel in their attack on Gaza, meaning our taxes are being used to fund weapons and aid the genocide that’s happening right now. Of course people are protesting here.

          Does it mean people don’t care about Tigray? Or course not, but we have less direct influence over what’s happening there.

    • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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      1 year ago

      I think Israel is doing exactly the opposite of ignoring the mindless murdering of their innocent families.

      • moriquende@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        So if terrorist government A kills civilians, it’s okay for murderous government B to take revenge by killing more civilians? Why does it matter where these people live, the only thing that matters is to stop killing them, depriving them of their freedoms and rights and hey, maybe even try to give them a happy life?

        • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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          1 year ago

          Government B’s primary goal is not to kill civilians. A’s is. This is not a numbers game, it matters why and in what context things are done.

          • candybrie@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Ends do not justify means. Killing civilians, especially children, is abhorrent.

            • SCB@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Yes war is indeed bad. That’s why Israel tried to avoid war.

      • Gazumi@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Youcve counted and compared the deaths of Israelis to Palestinians, plus considered the Palestinian children locked up with no rights or appeals etc. for at least 3 generations?

          • PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            “I think Israel is doing exactly the opposite of ignoring the mindless murdering of their innocent families.”

            For you, it indeed sounds like a tit-for-tat kill-for- kill system. If we were doing that, which we aren’t and shouldn’t be, then there’d need to be a lot more dead Israelis to balance the playing field. Obviously you can see why that is a horrendous idea.

            • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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              1 year ago

              Well, if we’re going to the numbers, do remind me, how many Israeli civilians have died due to IDF using them as human shields? And what does that very low number tell you?

              This is one of the many reasons why it’s completely pointless to play the numbers game in this war.

              • PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Dude, I’m agreeing. You’re the one who’s making it out to be some sort of tit for tat kill for kill for scenario.

    • SCB@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      This is not war it is the genocide that has been planned for a long time

      What’s your opinion on why Israel is so bad at actually achieving genocide?

      • Gazumi@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        You mean you ignore the atrocities, apartheid and land theft that built up to this? The palestinians just naturally and gave up their homes and rights for a few generations?

        • goat@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          You really shouldn’t argue this, since it always goes both ways in every single scenario.

          • atyaz@reddthat.com
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            1 year ago

            When have Palestinians invaded Israeli land? Israelis are still creating illegal settlements right now.

            But more importantly, this genocide is not a two way street. There are terrorist attacks but that pales in comparison to an all out genocide. When have Palestinians leveled whole neighborhoods or dropped chemical weapons on people? Israelis are determined to kill or at least displace the millions of remaining Palestinians and it’s disingenuous to say that’s the same thing the Palestinians are doing.

            • goat@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              When have Palestinians invaded Israeli land?

              During the many times the Arab League declared war. They lost though, which is why they’ve been limited to Gaza and West bank.

              But more importantly, this genocide is not a two way street. There are terrorist attacks but that pales in comparison to an all out genocide. When have Palestinians leveled whole neighborhoods or dropped chemical weapons on people? Israelis are determined to kill or at least displace the millions of remaining Palestinians and it’s disingenuous to say that’s the same thing the Palestinians are doing.

              It very much is. The situation in Palestine and Israel has always been very back and forth, with terrorist attacks from both sides, military strikes into each other’s territories, the deaths of innocent civilians, such and such. No one is a saint here, except for those caught in the crossfire.

              • Gazumi@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                The Arab league time point conveniently ignores the prior land incursions into Palestine. It is like a climate change denier arguing based upon a limited or specific time bound period. Not t9 mention that Israel has consistently mentioned pushing the Palestinians into the sea. An extremist Right Wing party in charge is exactly what we see leading to the inhumane mass murders. No different to Bosnia

                • goat@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  And ignoring the Arab League point is also conveniently ignoring Russia, France and Britain occupying Palestine, as well as the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and WW1. Though, I’m not going to insult you for that, since that’s against the rules.

                  • Gazumi@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    I agree. The point we start is with the post war determination of “A people without a land and a land without a people”. We collectively created the issue. Israel will never return to its original boundaries, but we are responsible for their expansion to date and we are currently supporting them in their current assaults.

            • thatsage@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Bro, it was Iraq Lebanon Syria Yemen and friends who literally drove their Jews to Israel as refuges of genocides.

              If you don’t consider them Palastinians that’s fine.

              Palastinians regularly invade Israel with rockets and have also done so with suicide bombings and shooting and knifing etc. and sadly on the 7th with something much more horrible than anything of earlier levels.

              Yes, some Israelis are creating illegal settlements, but they’re not condoned by Israel and are taken down.

          • Gazumi@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I have no religious affiliation or interest. What increasingly caused concern was the map of Israel 50 years ago vs the size today. Also, the incessant extremist approach of settlers bulldozing palestinian homes with support of superior force with no recourse for the dispossessed. I have never been in that position, but if my neighbour turned up with guns, knocked down my house and took my land, there would be an expectation of consequence

            • goat@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              If you’re referring to the massacres being a consequence (and not justifying, I hope), know that Gaza and Hamas separate themselves from the West Bank, which is where the settlements are occurring.

              • SCB@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                There aren’t settlements in Gaza.

                Israel literally offered Palestine 99% of the west bank, all of Gaza, and half of Jerusalem, and Palestinian leadership turned it down because the deal included Israel existing.

                  • SCB@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Yes

                    I’ll cite it for you if genuinely curious but it’ll be tomorrow cuz I’m omw to a Halloween party

                  • SCB@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    I was wrong it was 97% not 99%.

                    In 2000, US President Bill Clinton convened a peace summit between Palestinian President Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak. In May of that year, according to Nathan Thrall, Israel had offered Palestinians 66% of the West Bank, with 17% annexed to Israel, and a further 17% not annexed but under Israeli control, and no compensating swap of Israeli territory.[40] The Israeli prime minister offered the Palestinian leader between 91%[note 1] and 95%[41][42] (sources differ on the exact percentage) of the West Bank and the entire Gaza Strip if 69 Jewish settlements (which comprise 85% of the West Bank’s Jewish settlers) be ceded to Israel. East Jerusalem would have fallen for the most part[43] under Israeli sovereignty, with the exception of most suburbs with heavy non-Jewish populations surrounded by areas annexed to Israel.[44] The issue of the Palestinian right of return would be solved through significant monetary reparations.[45]

                    Proposed in the fall of 2000 following the collapse of the Camp David talks, The Clinton Parameters included a plan on which the Palestinian State was to include 94-96% of the West Bank, and around 80% of the settlers were to become under Israeli sovereignty, and in exchange for that, Israel would concede some territory (so called ‘Territory Exchange’ or ‘Land Swap’) within the Green Line (1967 borders). The swap would consist of 1–3% of Israeli territory, such that the final borders of the West Bank part of the Palestinian state would include 97% of the land of the original borders.[49]

                    Flash forward a few years to Obama and this is where shit falls apart. First, Netanyahu sets the table pretty decently and talks resume

                    In June 2009, reacting to US President Barack Obama’s Cairo Address,[40] Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared for the first time[57] conditional support for a future Palestinian state[58] but insisted that the Palestinians would need to make reciprocal gestures and accept several principles: recognition of Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people; demilitarization of a future Palestinian state, along with additional security guarantees, including defensible borders for Israel;[59] Palestinians would also have to accept that Jerusalem would remain the united capital of Israel, and renounce their claim to a right of return.

                    But surprise! Hamas and Hezbollah

                    Hamas and Hezbollah, however threatened violence, especially if either side seemed likely to compromise in order to reach an agreement

                    Israel existing is nearly always the thing that stops talks, and always because of extremist pressure upon the Palestinian government. The other time they fell apart was when noted shitbird Ariel Sharon tanked them.

        • thatsage@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          So what’s beautiful about this is that even if I were to agree with you about whether or not Israel is an apartheid state, and if there is theft of land or not - and make no mistake those things are serious and evil when true - then they are still very far from genocide, I believe the intent of that comment by “mindless murdering”, which is the clear open objective and stance of Hamas.

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          You can’t commit apartheid outside of your country. That’s not what “apartheid” means. Arabs in Israel have full citizenship and proportionate representation in government.