Making the schedule is the easy part. I could make the most amazing schedule of all time. It’ll be fully booked with healthy eating, exercise, classes, work, sleep, you name it. Following it? Lol
Exactly. Too many people think about what we need to do instead of trying to help with ways how to do them
Let’s see, 8am Monday, Mon day, moon day, that can’t be it though… Holy fuck it is,! Wait, does that mean Saturday is Saturn Day?
Three hours later
Yes, I was aware that we had a meeting at 9 today … Did you know that Sanskrit has a significant influence on English vocabulary? Yes, I am serious. Hello?
A (nice) coworker once asked me if I had a system for managing tasks.
I thought they were asking to learn, so I enthusiastically told them about the ~30 different systems I use; the inbox of all incoming tasks, a flowchart for task allocation, urgency VS importance whiteboards, etc, etc. I mentioned each of the books and methodologies those systems came from. (I highly recommend this 5min vid and listening to Order from Chaos (written by and for people with ADHD))
“Oh… cool” was their response, and in that moment I realized they were actually asking because they thought I didn’t have any system at all…
I just checked out the book and bought it, thanks!
Yes, but which scheduling app should I use? Best start with a spreadsheet to narrow down the best option, then I can really get cracking.
Emacs’ org mode is the best note taking app. You go down the rabbit hole configuring it that you forget why you downloaded emacs in the first place.
I have been wanting a dual-boot Linux system. It would be silly not to take advantage of this world-class note-taking capability…
My therapist eventually built me up to a schedule for a week, there are things that need to happen before that so that the schedule is sustainable.
We worked in my emotional regulation, my motivation to do things, what I want my purpose to be in life, my self image, and more, additionally, I’m on two ADHD meds.
So yeah, schedule is the right answer, but it’s not where you start, if your therapist starts there and doesn’t wanna work with you to get there, they may not be a good fit
Funny, for me, a schedule is exactly the wrong answer. What worked best for me was fully leaning into my distractions - I just “let” myself be distracted by the things I “should” be doing, and not really caring about if they happen or not.
What I mean by that is, whenever I notice something, I just do it, regardless of what I’m currently doing. Let’s say I’m currently writing a shopping list. I notice that I have to pee. I go to the bath. I see clothes that should go in the drawer. I take said clothes to the drawer. I still have to pee, I remember that I wanted to go to the toilet. I pee. I notice hair in the shower. I collect the hair and throw it away. I want to go play some games. I go to the desk, see my phone with the shopping list app still open. I continue making my shopping list.
Obviously, stuff still gets lost this way, but actually not very many things. So little gets lost that way that I actually can just not care about them. For example in the above, maybe I never get to the shopping list again. But I made part of it, and it’s not like I need a shopping list to go shopping, I’ll still be able to get something from the store so that I don’t starve, even though I maybe miss some of the stuff I wanted. And I did so many other things instead that “had” to be done that I’m still happy in general, I know what the shopping list was replaced by and still feel good about these things.
The middle part of your comment obviously is very fucking important for this. You have to actually want to do the things, know you can do them, try to feel good about doing them, forgive yourself if you don’t do them, etc etc etc.
For me, this embraced chaos works so much better than any schedule ever could, because I love this way of living so much more than the rigidity.
This kind of productive flow probably works amazingly- unless you have any other beings in your life, especially ones that rely on you for food, walks, and financial contribution.
Other life forms are where my flow breaks down.
I have a dog and he was trained to tell me when he has to go out or needs food, so these signs of him get incorporated into this flow with maximum priority. I would assume the same would work for me with kids or other pets.
What did you do to build up to it?
Well that would require a lot of in depth info about my issues because it definitely varies for every person and I’m not super comfortable sharing that here, sorry about that
No worries. If it’s specific to you, it probably wouldn’t work for me, anyway. I was just hoping there was something general you could point me towards.
I was gonna say I’ll get back to you when I check my notes but then I startex remembering tips so here you go:
One easy tip, utilize your phone calendar, experiment with when to get the reminders. That was one of my first steps. I use it for appointments and things, and some regular daily tasks, I don’t always follow it.
That’s what I worked on next with was executive dysfunction, not having the motivation to do the things I wanted to do. One thing I decided would work for me is setting a goal for a week, or a month, etc. Because one thing he mentioned was having a purpose in your head or having an identity picked out in your head that defines you most accurately. Like teacher, or father, or learner, or bulder etc. My goal right now is to figure out what that means for me, and try to understand who I want to be, and as I collect those pieces I write them down and try to work towards them. I find myself naturally making lists of things to do more and actually checking them because I know that list will help me get done what I want to do, it gets to where I want to be in life. Whether that be for work or personal life.
I think for me those were big ones, those definitely still take some work to build to, and sometimes the answer is also medication, and sometimes it’s completely different but that stuff helped me. I feel like it’s common for ADHD to be very goal motivated. Personally rewards never work for me, it’s the satisfaction of competing something that I was working towards that pushes me.
But you have to be willing to identify to yourself that you did a good job, I struggled with bad self speak. And it wasn’t really obvious until I started to think about it. Like instead of saying, “I’m pretty good at x, but not the best”. I’d say, “I’m not great at x, but I’m not terrible” like one shows I’m decent but I have room to grow, and the other shows I’m not good and but I’m not the worst. Too negative. So I had to work on my recognition of my personal progress. If you don’t actually recognize what you’ve done and the progress you’ve made, you’ll feel like you’ve gotten nowhere
Those are a few, you can definitely find more info on some of this online, and I’ll make another comment if I remember more or see some in my notes.
it looks blurry because we’re just that exhausted
The less pixels in this Affleck reaction correlates directly to how exhausted one is
They keep suggesting that to autistics like me too.
But schedules and calendars that go beyond “this has to be done on or by that date or you’re fucked” stress me the fuck out.
They keep trying to “fix” my sleep schedule and non-existent executive function by trying to schedule every second of every day and the result is that I’m so stressed I can’t even get something like brushing my teeth done.
But schedules and calendars that go beyond “this has to be done on or by that date or you’re fucked” stress me the fuck out.
Totally. They stress me out into overwhelmed, anxiety-riddled inaction, an d I know I’m not the only one
I mean, if it’s a new therapist it still seems valuable to go through the “obvious” checklist first just to make sure you’ve covered your bases. For some people it may be enough, even if it isn’t for most 🤷🏼♂️
Tip: instead of making schedules, try to build habits.
Start with something small and make an effort to do it every single day for a month or every day of the week for three months.
The hardest part is to be consistent, so try to not skip more than one day.
I’d sum up my everyday experience with just that: I can’t make habits. Or form a routine.
every fucking thing is a conscious effort, nothing really becomes routine regardless of for how long I am doing it. Even the things I do routinely I have to do while actively paying attention, like my morning “routine”.
Always a mental checklist. Last time I was really tired and just slogged through without thinking I literally forgot to brush half of my teeth.
It’s so exhausting. In a couple weeks I have a new evaluation appointment for medication, I hope that helps somewhat.
Yeah, if I can forget that I’m physically addicted to caffeine, I can forget a habit. Pshhh that’s easy level stuff. When you have to actively ask yourself, “what should I be doing, right now?” And the answer is, eat something, it’s been 28 hours since your last meal. Don’t get me wrong, I made meals for my wife and kids, they ate… I just forgot to.
That moment where I start getting a headache around 11am because I forgot to make coffee after breakfast…
Right.
every fucking thing is a conscious effort, nothing really becomes routine regardless of for how long I am doing it. Even the things I do routinely I have to do while actively paying attention, like my morning “routine”.
Afaik I don’t have adhd, but this is so relatable
Yeah, nothing I do becomes easier as I do them routinely. If anything it becomes harder and overtime the routine just isn’t sustainable.
Anything that do become a habit is always because of external pressure, which without it the habit will immediately puff to nothing. But like another meme said, we hate those external pressure, but can’t live without it.
I’m the same way. It’s ironic given that I posted this meme, but when I can use them lists really help.
In my case, if I travel somewhere for 3 days, when I get back, many of the routines I had at my original location will have evaporated no matter how long I had them, so I made a list, and have been trying to build a routine-recovering routine. It’s slow going for other reasons but I’ve been very slowly working on it for 5 years now and it has helped at times when I’ve needed it (and remembered it exists).
Here’s my additional tip to OP’s tip: if you are someone who holds habits like a sieve holds water, you have to be even more intentional about forming habits, and form multiple interlocking habits that cue you. I’m at a very stressful time in life right now so it’s hard for me to remember details but like, I wanted to develop a daily meditation habit. But what I had to do in order for it to actually stick, was develop a ritual out of interlocking habits: getting my tea, lighting some incense, doing the actual meditation, once finished immediately having a rewarding sip of tea, dusting off my cushion, writing a brief journal entry afterwards (this is the one that tipped it over the edge for me for some reason) with a piece of dark chocolate. I also put little succulents by my altar with a lamp on a timer that comes on in the morning, so just the lit-up presence of plants which I need to tend every few days draws me toward the altar if I’ve forgotten or postponed my sit.
You have to be like this with everything that doesn’t come naturally. Yes, it’s extremely intentional, which is exhausting. Yes it’s a lot of hit or miss, trial and error, because of all the little sub-habits I just described above, there will be a number you try which end up not working for you. So you have to be persistent at messing around with your habit-sculpture long enough to find a permutation which works for you, and being persistent at things like this can be very difficult for people like us. In that case, I recommend sheer desperation, it helps with the persistence.
Tip: instead of making schedules, try to build habits. […] The hardest part is to be consistent, so try to not skip more than one day.
This is some ‘gee thanks I’m cured’ sort of advice. I’ve repeatedly tried to create habits, but they do not stick and my brain will drop them like a hot potato if I’m not actively keeping the habit going. The only relief I’ve found is a gamification app that helps me remember all the habits I need to do. And even then I still forget to do all my habits on the reg…
Not the guy you’re responding to but I made a comment upthread that I found success by developing interlocking habits, or in some cases it’s fair to say rituals rather than habits … little sub-habits that guide you to the main one you want to develop, or briefly reward you when you’ve completed it. Items or processes in your environment which cue you and remind you that the habits you want to do even exist.
For example, 2 sub-components of what finally got me to remember to meditate (or skip, but intentionally 😒) were writing a brief journal entry of my observations after each sit with a piece of chocolate, and having a couple little succulents with a light on a timer by my altar, so that every time I’m in the room during the day the altar area, with a couple plants I need to keep an eye on for their health, is lit up to draw me in if I’m ready.
Doing things this way is very intentional and thus exhausting, and it requires a lot of trial and error to figure out the little sub-habits that all work together and that actually work for you (since some inevitably won’t), and hell as somebody explaining it I’ve only had a couple big successes with it because I often don’t have the energy/brainpower to figure all this out … but man when I can pull it off, it works sooo well.
I’m a huge believer in “prosthetic environments” which I believe is a concept Dr. Russell Barkley came up with, he annoys me a little but as an ADHD research he’s like 85% dead on target about this stuff, and thinks deeply about it.
Good luck!
A small walk in the morning is a really good habit and good for you.
Plus there’s the benefit of working out helping with sleep quality and (at least for me) making focusing easier.
I’ve been trying to develop this habit for 7 years because I know how good it is for me :(
I recommend starting small on walking distance, it helps a lot IMO
Pick a song you like and walk in one direction until the song is over then turn around
Eventually move up to more songs and maybe a whole album
Or if you like audiobooks listen to one while you walk and only while you walk. Personally this is what I do, though I’m pretty inconsistent of I’m having difficulties finding another book to listen to.
I can’t find a good enough scheduling app with all the features I want.
Maybe I should buy a good notebook and calendar. But I can’t find one that has the right dimensions… Ooh, Amazon is having a huge book sale. I’ll get a couple, since they’re buy one get one 1/2 off.
Oh right, I needed a notebook for making a schedule. I want to check best buy for a new router since I just got fiber.
Oh right… the schedule…
In my case, I decided to cut Big Tech out of my life which led to dropping Google Calendar in favor of an open source solution, which works exactly the same except for GCal’s one teensy little proprietary extension: reminders.
Living without that snoozable reminder stack for the past 4 years has been like walking around with a hole in my side.
I have found that it really really helps to keep a notebook and keep a running list per day of all the things I HAVE to do that day
I work as a developer/ cloud IT engineer. All day long people mention something in meetings or I need to check the uptime/status of a particular asset. It was getting to be too much to keep track of every little thing I had to do.
I eventually settled for writing down things mentioned to me, or things that I’m reminded of. The vast majority of my work I remember, don’t need to write down to keep track of.
Glancing over this, I get that it’s incredibly vague advice. But following a version of this, and starting a new page every day, has really helped me keep track of things.
I do this as well but I use Obsidian (yes I know it’s closed source VC ware, bite me) because I’m already at my computer.
I just might have to look into that
No worries, while I agree it’s good to support FOSS alternatives…
A lot of software development is commercially driven, and that’s not a bad thing.
Bullet journaling is fscking amazing for this, unfortunately after many years of hard experience, I’ve come to understand that I’m so receptive to environmental stimuli that I just haven’t been able to maintain such a system in a chaotic environment … I need a certain level of baseline peace / recharge in order to be able to stay on top of systems like these. But they do work so well when I can manage it
That’s fair I really wouldn’t call my strategy bullet journaling, more like writing a daily to-do list (sparse reminders)
Schedule doesn’t work me. What works are reminders that stay on my Lock Screen until I dismiss them. Now I just have to resist the urge of dismissing them early or ignoring them all day…
Wish that worked for me, I just ignore them cus I’m doing something and end up feeling guilty about ignoring them.
I made them stay on my screen until I check them off. Using iOS reminders with time (no time reminders are never looked at). The timed ones stay on your lock screen until you do them. It doesn’t work every time but it’s good way to nag me before jumping into social media.
I don’t think making schedules is gonna improve my mental health, doc.
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH
