Right, humans are bad about that kind of thing. I think it has to do with Dunbar’s number? The monkeysphere? It’s hard for us to model a lot of people as full people in our head, especially as they’re more removed from us.
Like you probably don’t really think about the garbage man as a fully fleshed out guy with hopes, dreams, a favorite band, a love that got away, and all that. When you have some absolutely rancid trash, you probably just throw it in the can and forget about it. But if it was your mother or best friend that was going to have to deal with it, maybe you’d be more careful. Wouldn’t want the bag to rip and spray maggots all over Mom.
That’s fine. That’s all of us.
But I think there’s degrees. Shades. Like you mentioned cell phones. Most of us accept the out of sight horrors that go with them. But, like, some people are absolute assholes to wait staff. Just treat the waiter like shit, are rude to the coffee shop people, whatever. I think most of us recognize that as bad.
Somewhere between those two points I think is “I’m going to build software to spy on people”. Personally, I think that should be ok the far side of the line. The not okay side. Why? A bit of self preservation, a bit of ethics, and a helping of “I don’t want to contribute to bad things happening to people, even ones I don’t know”.
This post is getting long. I think you’re right that it’s not as simple as “doesn’t care about other people” but I think that’s a factor.
Absolutely a nuanced area. But on top of not modelling random people as full individuals it’s hard to determine what spying on people might actually mean. I don’t really want to defend working for a company as nefarious as Palantir - even if I honestly hardly knew them before Trump #2 - but convincing yourself that gathering people’s data isn’t problematic is quite easy, and we all inherently accept a wide array of surveillance measures as - willing or unwilling - members of state entities, be it a video camera in a clothing store or governments logging our tax data. Then comes the fact that employees below the level of “board of directors” usually don’t know everything going on in the company; I wouldn’t fault a junior dev choosing to work for, say, ‘cool’ Google or Apple in 2017.
Of course it’s relevant that humans are egocentrical animals; I wouldn’t give my own life to save five people that I don’t know in Moldova. Being too empathetic is a poor trait in a dog eat dog world. Of course we need standards and to hold others up to these standards; I don’t know your friend, what he does at Palantir or when he started working there - maybe he’s a lazy ass that holds them back haha - and I do think, especially with all that’s transpired the past 5 months, that it’s a problematic company to be part of - I just wanted to discuss that I don’t think it’s just lack of empathy
Right, humans are bad about that kind of thing. I think it has to do with Dunbar’s number? The monkeysphere? It’s hard for us to model a lot of people as full people in our head, especially as they’re more removed from us.
Like you probably don’t really think about the garbage man as a fully fleshed out guy with hopes, dreams, a favorite band, a love that got away, and all that. When you have some absolutely rancid trash, you probably just throw it in the can and forget about it. But if it was your mother or best friend that was going to have to deal with it, maybe you’d be more careful. Wouldn’t want the bag to rip and spray maggots all over Mom.
That’s fine. That’s all of us.
But I think there’s degrees. Shades. Like you mentioned cell phones. Most of us accept the out of sight horrors that go with them. But, like, some people are absolute assholes to wait staff. Just treat the waiter like shit, are rude to the coffee shop people, whatever. I think most of us recognize that as bad.
Somewhere between those two points I think is “I’m going to build software to spy on people”. Personally, I think that should be ok the far side of the line. The not okay side. Why? A bit of self preservation, a bit of ethics, and a helping of “I don’t want to contribute to bad things happening to people, even ones I don’t know”.
This post is getting long. I think you’re right that it’s not as simple as “doesn’t care about other people” but I think that’s a factor.
Absolutely a nuanced area. But on top of not modelling random people as full individuals it’s hard to determine what spying on people might actually mean. I don’t really want to defend working for a company as nefarious as Palantir - even if I honestly hardly knew them before Trump #2 - but convincing yourself that gathering people’s data isn’t problematic is quite easy, and we all inherently accept a wide array of surveillance measures as - willing or unwilling - members of state entities, be it a video camera in a clothing store or governments logging our tax data. Then comes the fact that employees below the level of “board of directors” usually don’t know everything going on in the company; I wouldn’t fault a junior dev choosing to work for, say, ‘cool’ Google or Apple in 2017.
Of course it’s relevant that humans are egocentrical animals; I wouldn’t give my own life to save five people that I don’t know in Moldova. Being too empathetic is a poor trait in a dog eat dog world. Of course we need standards and to hold others up to these standards; I don’t know your friend, what he does at Palantir or when he started working there - maybe he’s a lazy ass that holds them back haha - and I do think, especially with all that’s transpired the past 5 months, that it’s a problematic company to be part of - I just wanted to discuss that I don’t think it’s just lack of empathy