More of a thought exercise/game than anything else. I saw the news that 486 support was getting cut from linux, and I was curious just how cheaply someone could replace a desktop 486 system with something new (provided the device had all the connectivity they needed).
Rules:
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Device must be able to run linux.
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Device should be cheap as possible. A good starting point is probably sub 40usd.
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The device must in someway support a mouse, keyboard, display, and the internet. If adapters are necessary for this connectivity, that cost should be included.
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Power supply should be included in the cost of the device. (in the case of most SBCs this is just the cost of a USB cable and wall wart)
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The device must be new & still in production. I know used devices like laptops would probably have been king here, but I don’t think that would be nearly as interesting.
I suspect that SBCs and other arm devices will be the most common suggestions.
I personally know about the Raspberry Pi Zero which can be had for ~$10, and with all the added accessories necessary to make it a full computer (usb splitters, usb power, usb to rj45, storage) it costs around ~$35. Not bad at all but I’m pretty sure we can do even better!
What I did was I went to the thrift store and I found a laptop. It was the Asus Transformer Book T100han.
I had one when it was new. It was a POS but hey it worked really well in my use case I was thinking of.
Got it home booted it, has Windows 10 1501 installed on it. Refused the update. (The perfect windows machine does exists)
Updated it to 22h2 bricked it by running out of the limited 32GB of storage.
Said screw it got Linux Mint on a USB installer. Installer crashes. Tries Ubuntu… also crashes. Tries OpenSuse, also crashes. Tries Fedora also crashes.
Turns out the installer requires more than 2GB of ram. Laptop only has 2 and it’s soldered. (The e waste special)
Gets Debian installs it. Gets to desktop, no Bluetooth, no audio, but everything else runs better than I ever saw it. Needs older distro.
Gets Q4OS installs fine, runs as well and audio works. No Bluetooth. My very specific use case requires Bluetooth.
Forces myself to go back to windows. No recovery image. Downloads from MS, can’t create media because my PC is on Linux. Boots into VM, makes installer. Installs Windows. No audio no Bluetooth.
Gets drivers from asus website. Everything works but audio. Calls asus support gets drivers. PC is back to when I got it.
Pair Bluetooth controller, installs auto hotkeys, installs libre office. Best teleprompter I’ve ever used.
Shoves into box until it’s needed again.
Why must the device be new and still in production? The current devices that are currently in production/new both at that price point (sub 40$) and more expensive (up to 3000$) are consumer grade garbage that will last at most 2 years. They’re not repairable, not durable, not built well etc. I personally use a GNU booted Thinkpad X200T /T500 and a GNU booted ASUS KMCA-D8- both running Parabola GNU+Linux-Libre splendisly with the proprietary wifi-card replaced. The cost of the X200T was about 30$ and the T500 was about 20$. I understand that you might not care as much of freedom to get either the X200, X200T, T400, T400s, or T500, but it is important to understand that most of the operating system components you are runnning were made with freedom in mind. If you still don’t want to sacrifice performance for a cheap, libre experience, then just get a newer Thinkpad. It’s not as libre, but they still could be found (more easily) for very cheap prices. But keep in mind the newer you get the shittier it’s going to be. I still suggest the models I reffered to though- esspecially if you want to tinker. You can remove about every component and replace it, and you can replace the BIOS with a fully free bios (GNU Boot).
By the way, most operating system distributions based on Linux as kernel are basically modified versions of the GNU operating system. Richard M Stallman and contributers began developing GNU in 1984, years before Linus Torvalds started to write his kernel. Their goal was to develop a complete free operating system. Of course, they did not develop all the parts themselves—but they led the way. They developed most of the central components, forming the largest single contribution to the whole system. The basic vision was theirs too. In fairness, the GNU project ought to get at least equal mention. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu.html#gnulinux https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html
Just curious but how do you manage to keep the X200T/T500’s battery alive? Even my X220’s is almost dead by now. Do you have it plugged in 24/7?
No, I just buy a new lenovo 9 cell battery. I use my X200T for creativity stuff (reading/writing/drawing) and use my T500 for portable more intense work like programming that I would do on the ASUS KMCA-D8 when I’m on the go. I get about 5-12 hours on my X200T and 3-10 hours on my T500, but I do carry a docking station with me, so I can always just recharge easily, but I usually don’t use it since the 5-10 hours is more than enough for school bus rides and I don’t usually program in a place without a charging outlet nearby. Btw it’s important to note that my computer is very minimal since I use parabola open rc edition with dwm to boot emacs, libreoffice draw, and icecat, so if you have a bloated setup then ofcourse the battery life will differ.
Raspberry pi?
Edit: also cheap chromebooks
I have a Luckfox Pico Ultra-W running a ‘buildroot’ linux with a camera module that I use as a security camera. It cost me about A$33.
I also have a Luckfox Pico Max running ubuntu simply to run smokeping 24x7 monitoring - about A$30.
Finally a ESP32 CAM Camera Module With OV2640 camera that can be bought for less that A$15 (not linux but just FYI).
I saw the luckfox products on aliexpress and they definitely looked cool!
Not trying to blame anyone, I just wish more ppl prefer old good stuff over new cheap stuff. Sigh.
Recycling those ewaste is a lot more expensive than manufacturing them. Of course that’s edge cases, but I think reusing old devices works better(and more environmentally friendly) for most ppl.
Nothing wrong with brain storming, just please consider reusing old devices when you start a cool project.
A $50 used ipad is always a better deal than a $80 fire tablet
True - but don’t forget cost of power ($ cost and environment cost). These old brutes consume a lot esp. compared to the SBCs.
In server and gpu world, true. Laptop, desktop world. Not really. Most ppl don’t need that much computational power anyway.
Also, ppl usually not include the shipping, collecting ewaste and recycling ewaste in the carbon footprint cost. Our ewaste recycling is extremely inefficient compared to our manufacturing side.
For power, solar becomes so cheap now.
I’m very for used hardware, some of my stuff is dumpster finds. I just liked the thought experiment of replacing a hypothetical 486 pc with a brand new computer.
You can get EOL Chromebooks for around $40-50. Who cares that they don’t get security updates when you’re not using ChromeOS!
Right in your price range, and now it’s a portable all-in-one package.
If you like tinkering and the like, try a Chromebook but check out this site first.
Drop the requirement for new and you can get plenty of good stuff for free.
For a clueless person like myself, do you have any advice on how to make that happen? I see @SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works say dumpster dive, but how would you know which places to patrol, and when?
(Btw Sreudian, if you see this and you’re ok with dropping the local requirement, I’d love to pay for shipping for one of those macs)
Especially Win10 computers :-)
Where can I get these for free?
My current desktop came from a co-worker, but you can also put the word out to family and friends that you’re interested in their old machines. Most people are happy to give them away because otherwise it costs them money to dispose of electronics. If nothing else, you could post on Nextdoor or a local Facebook page that you’re looking for a Win10 machine that would otherwise be trashed.
Older machines also mean dirt-cheap upgrades. The desktop I have came with a Celeron cpu. I dropped in an i7 for $10 from ebay, and recently upgraded it to 24GB of ram with sticks I had pulled from other free systems. When you switch to Linux you’re not wasting horsepower on Microsoft spyware crap, so this machine does just fine for my needs (although I’m also not trying to play games).
I have a bunch of old macs here with different distros onthem, mostly Mint, that I have been trying to give away to locals (without being obligated to provide support, which is the stickler apparently). They all run great. One could dumpster dive or curb cruise, or around here, lurk at Recycling.
I was going to suggest RPiZero too, it should even be more powerful than an actual 486.
Not NEW, but, check out local auctions. Local universities and govt offices are frequently selling lots of newish laptops (5ish yrs old) for $10-$50 apiece.
on my campus, there’s a stack of several dozen desktops just out in the open (in a basement)
plus a dumpster worth on monitors, peripherals, and at least one ipad with multiple bullet holes. the screen is fine – somebody pulled the screen off, then shot the logic board. i have so many questions
along those same lines, used Chromebooks – Google ends support after only a couple years so school districts all over the place are generally stuck with palettes of e-waste
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Watch for thin clients too. You can install Linux on some of them and use them as a normal PC. They will have more processing power than a cheap SBC.
I think it isnt a great idea to go for new ever. Why would you? You can buy 10+ yr old computers for 10$ or get them for free. It is far better for the environment and far cheaper.
Because this is a thought experiment. There’s no waste when nobody’s actually buying anything.
I believe I saw some other single board computers with some cheap Rockchip CPU /Allwinner and regular HDMI and two USB and an Ethernet port for around $10 on Aliexpress. You wouldn’t need the adapters from the Pi Zero with those. And there are some generic Android TV-Boxes for $8-15…
This seems like the most interesting suggestion so far. I’ll look into those!
Raspberry Pi Zero second hand. Probably you can score something for less than 10 bucks.
Actually ESP32-S3 will be even cheaper than this one. They sell for around 5-6 $ but they are very limited in what they can do.
Yeah I mean, rule 1 is that it needs to run Linux, so I don’t think a microcontroller like an ESP or Arduino is going to qualify…
http://wiki.osll.ru/doku.php/etc:users:jcmvbkbc:linux-xtensa:esp32s3 according to this it can run with some limitations.
Whatever the cheapest laptop is
I bet you can find stuff on AliExpress for a lot less but then you have to insure support is descent.
Minisforum Refurb, or an SoC that’s cheaper than RPi
