cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/29626776
[“fierce opposition”? Don’t bet on it.]
By TIA GOLDENBERG and SAM MEDNICK
Updated 5:25 AM EDT, May 5, 2025TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — Israel approved plans on Monday to capture the entire Gaza Strip and remain in the territory for an unspecified amount of time, two Israeli officials said, in a move that if implemented would vastly expand Israel’s operations in the Palestinian territory and likely bring fierce international opposition.
Israeli Cabinet ministers approved the plan in an early morning vote, hours after the Israeli military chief said the army was calling up tens of thousands of reserve soldiers.
It’s genocide. Just say it.
And when this happens, they can come crying to the U.S. like they usually do. But there’s not a damn thing the U.S. or anyone else can do about climate change.
Damn, so full annexation of the Gaza strip. Someone should tell them that that’s against the UN charter. They might get a strongly worded email if they’re not careful. Shit, they might even lose their membership!
…again.
sniff
Something smell like genocide in here
This was the plan the whole time; genocide and conquest.
Remember when everyone was like, “What??? They would never do that!”
Sure don’t.
I do remember thinking that any of my fellow Americans who refused to vote for Kamala because she wasn’t anti-Israel enough for them were super fucking stupid because electing Trump obviously OBVIOUSLY O B V I O U S L Y would lead to this exact outcome.
That’s what I remember.
There’ll be people denying that’s the plan while the death camps are open. Just like Nazis kept denying the Holocaust the whole time, and even after the fact.
They must deny that their targets even exist, to further depersonalization, so they don’t even have the dignity of being acknowledged as an oppressed minority. “We didn’t do it, because they don’t exist; and if they did, we would be in our rights to enact our final solution for them.”
After all, how could they be held responsible for committing atrocities against a group who doesn’t exist?
So, that’s what it’s like to live through a state sponsored genocide. Apocalyptic for the victims, banal for the rest.
Most times of state-created suffering do not feel abnormal to most people.
Milton Mayer interviewed a bunch of German civilians after World War 2, and most of them remembered the concentration camp years as good times and had a positive view of Hitler. Only the professor among them really even had much awareness that anything important had been happening during that time; most of the others were just concerned with issues of family, their work life, their economic situation, and so on.
“New plan” like this wasn’t always the end goal
Lebensraum
New plan?
Yea this has been the plan since 1897 as stated at the first zionist conference
well I held my vote for the Democrats, i don’t know what else you want me to do.
/s
Good thing the dems made it easy by putting the interests of a foreign genocidal apartheid state before their voters. With a bit of luck, we might be able to successfully blame everyone but them, and they might be confident enough to repeat the same strategy and lose the next election as well.
They are receiving plenty of blame. In the mean time, we get to watch Trump destroy our country, cheer on the genocide in Gaza, and openly flirt with invading our allies. All thanks to the morons that bought into propaganda telling them not to vote.
So you’re saying the democrats are receiving proper blame for supporting the genocidal state, but it’s the people who didn’t vote for either of the pro-genocide candidates that are to blame?
Why do so many people constantly just misframe this argument as “it’s the people who didn’t vote’s fault!” And not the fault of the actual people in power for not standing up to a genocide, for once again moving right to capture a “centrist swing” voter, for parading out the fucking neocons as proof of their ability to fucking govern, and for openly arming the genocide?
You want to lay blame at voters’ feet, but not the people who couldn’t do enough to earn the votes of people…asking not to be involved in genocide. Our votes aren’t theirs to fucking have no matter what they do. What they have done and will do in power matters. If it doesn’t, what the fuck is the point of voting? Why not just trade places back and forth for increasingly bold warmongers and autocrats?
Don’t blame the voter for not sacrificing their morals and for not holding their nose and saying maybe they wont keep contributing to genocide. Blame the people fucking supporting genocide.
This is so myopic.
-
Don’t blame the voters for not choosing the obviously better and more probable choice that would lead to protections for Palestinians than the guaranteed binary alternative outcome? Okay.
-
Ignore the fact that much of the electorate is completely fucking ignorant and apathetic and duped by literally billions of dollars of misinformation flooding their media, both domestically but also including Israeli and Russian operations spreading disinformation? (something these Uncommitted voters became susceptible too in the boTh SiDes rhetoric, ind you)
I’m Pro-Palestinian. I’m Pro-Civilian. But if these couch-sitters really gave a fuck beyond empty moral grandstanding, then they should’ve focused on helping to inform their fellow voters why it’s important to help Gaza. After all, you want candidates to respect the will of the voters but ignore the ultimate reality that the electorate was clearly split on the issue just the same and made no attempt to influence the electorate? Put another way: instead of protesting the DNC convention, maybe you guys should’ve started protesting at church parking lots around the country and showing the horrors of Palestine, undercutting the media narrative? That would’ve been much more fruitful.
Because you’re lying to yourself if you think Harris would somehow be worse or equally unreachable like Trump.
Leaving aside the fact that you completely further enabled (a) a loss of LGBTQ+ rights in America, (b) Women’s rights by abortion access, (c) Climate change, and finally (d) became complicit in enabling Russia’s attempted genocide in Ukraine all the same. So please, step off the soapbox.
-
I blame the DNC for constantly shooting themselves in both feet, especially when it comes to their insistence on running sham primaries. I blame the neoliberals in both parties for creating the propaganda and legal bribery industries that shifted the Overton window so far right in this country. I blame voters like you, for not being able to see the forest for the trees when the options we’re given are more neoliberalism, or blatant fascism. You chose now, of all times, to put your foot down with the DNC, because that’s what the bandwagon was doing. Now you think your rage at the system justifies a decision, that you made, that helped bring us outright fascism. Meanwhile, minorities like me get to sit here wondering why so many leftists were willing to sacrifice us on the alter of idealogical purity. If you were actually concerned about Palestinians, you would’ve voted for the option that had potential to ease their suffering. In other words, there would’ve been far more political pressure on Harris to do something about the genocide. Instead, we got Trump talking about “wiping it clean” for new development. If you want to continue to justify implicitly voting for Trump, by abstaining, then please explain how Trump is better for Palestine than Harris. That was your primary motivation for not voting after all, right?
Why do so many people constantly just misframe this argument as “it’s the people who didn’t vote’s fault!”
That’s easy, it goes like this:
If you and people like you had all voted for the Democratic candidate instead of witholding your vote because she wasn’t anti-Israel enough, Trump would have lost.
Then it continues:
If Trump had lost, this wouldn’t be happening.
Therefore:
It’s most directly Trump and his Nazi party’s fault, but voters who didn’t vote for Harris 100% share the blame for helping to elect Trump.
Easy motherfucking peasy.
Oh, you don’t like genocide? Then why’d you help enable it? And if you can pull your head out of Gaza’s asshole for a minute, why’d you enable the equivalent in the US with millions of deportations?
I suppose you think it’s Democratic voters’ fault. What, should have have all boycotted the vote so Trump could win harder? Do you think that’d have helped? If Harris came out as super anti-Israel, so that such voters would deign to vote for her, that she’d still have carried enough swing states to win? Because she wouldn’t have, that’s just reality.
Congrats to everyone who pulled this off; now Gaza, the USA, AND Ukraine are fucked. Well done! Xi and Vlad applaud you too!
But it’s just such a twisted way of thinking about it. You’re telling people to sacrifice their firmly held beliefs, and you’re mad at people who didn’t. But you’re not expending any of that energy trying to change the problematic politicians.
I understand trump is worse. But that does not guarantee his opponent any votes simply because they aren’t him. They have actively turned further and further away from us. At what point does that ever affect your vote? They were taking part in an active genocide. And openly claiming they were not going to change that.
…what do they have to do to lose your vote? Could they be actively rounding up people in work camps?
We all understand the difference between trump and the dems.
But my entire point is what is your vote worth? Apparently it’s worth not very much and can stomach at least genocide without being turned away. Not mine.
And if you’re going to keep blaming people, and not the politicians, then we are going to keep running into this problem. Because the trend has not been kind to us, to you or me. This keeps happening. The politicians have shown us their tactics will be continually moving to the right. It’s been that way my whole life. Genocide was the dealbreaker for me. Not for you. But this is the world we are living in now. And blaming us isn’t changing shit. Maybe you should start aiming your anger at the people making those choices.
I blame them for making my minority friends fear for the lives they’ve built in the us.
I blame them for making my trans sister fear for her life.
I blame them for allowing republicans to completely destroy social services and vital parts of the US government.
There was so much more at stake than continued genocide in a country half way around the world.
They deserve at least some of the blame, because they allowed all this to happen.
I’m so sorry for what you and your loved ones have to live through
Thank you.
I only wish the people who abstained had enough brain power to think more than a half step ahead.
Fuck all of them. Every single one is an absolute shit stain, no better than a magat.
“They’re both immoral, voting doesn’t make a difference” is how autocracies like Russia come to be.
Vote for the least bad side. It’s that simple. Protest during the primaries, protest after the election, but don’t freaking protest vote by effectively voting for something an order of magnitude worse on your very issues.
Doesn’t matter if Biden/Harris came out and personally handed Netanyahu bombs after hugging him every day… If this is your single issue vote, you vote for the party that doesn’t literally want to flatten Gaza, no matter how bad they are.
No, Russia became an autocracy by never being a free state after the fall of the Soviet Union.
The chaos of just adding a president to the existing Soviet order and then the overpowered oligarchs vying for power and buying the “privatized” industries through nepotism and backroom deals is how it happened. Not to mention Yeltsin literally forcing his constitution into law by having tanks fire on the parliament and arresting its members, resulting in an incredibly powerful president who appointed basically the entire government.
The same few oligarchs and corrupt politicians retaining power, especially when the president holds outsized power in the system led the country to an autocracy. It wasnt from people thinking “both are immoral, voting doesn’t make a difference.”
The Russian people know voting doesn’t make a difference because the government did nothing to show they’re trustworthy. 88% of the vote, the competitors being arrested or suicided?
Ignoring immoral politicians and giving them power despite their shortcomings is far more likely to lead to autocracy. It’s not on the voter to cast their vote. It’s on the politicians to earn the votes. Thinking it’s the other way around is incredibly twisted. And honestly really sad that that’s the way people think.
Well I’m not sorry, as I am not seeing anything presented that changes the calculus.
Better politicians would be nice, but we didn’t get them in the primaries, so when we get to the general election we vote for who we freaking got, and “protesting” with your vote is not going to change that, as thats not what this vote is for. I guess you’re not obligated to, but your logic is flawed if you think that’s a good form of protest.
Who cares if they are immoral? Get over it. Vote for the less worse candidate, if you want to keep voting at all. On aggregate, it’s that simple.
In other words, a no vote is equal support of both candidates.
That’s it.
It means nothing else.
And I referenced Russia because the population seems to have a general cynicism knowing they can’t change anything. That’s what keeps the system the way it is.
absolutely right, only people pushing an agenda think nonvptong is a reasonable response
there’s obvious vote manipulating going on here they always do it with 0 to -1 and it will always happen when the majority of interest in the post has died, seen the exact voting trends to many times
And those “morons” will fall it again if the dems keep creating situations that make them look terrible. They are acting like villains, of course its easy for russia to convince people they are.
How easy is it to just tell Israel to fuck off? Yet im suppose to pat them on the back and blame the evil voters that just couldnt swallow their pride and support ethnic cleansing? Id rather they grew some balls and stopped presenting Trump Lite as their official party strategy.
They aren’t receiving enough blame if there are still people that are scapegoating ordinary folk that felt genocide, of all things, was were the line should be drawn. It’s normal to not support genocide, the lunatics that tried to push it as a platform are the only ones to blame.
By voting for Trump, you have insured the Palestinians are much worse off. At least with Harris there would’ve been a possibility of the US eventually condemning the genocide. Now we have the Trump admin cheering it on. So, how did voting the way you did help the Palestinian people?
yeah they are shitty but a non-vote is the moral equivalent of burning your house down because your dog shit the bed.
Heads in the right place, fucking awful execution
Good thing the dems made it easy by putting the interests of a foreign genocidal apartheid state before their voters. […] repeat the same strategy and lose the next election as well.
Republicans are literally laying the ground work to turn the USA into a fascist dictatorship that is in lock step with Russia and Israel, but alright cool. Good thing we have more concern for a foreign conflict then the survival of our own democracy.
I have never come across anyone supporting Trump on lemmy. I voted for Kamala but we are in a post election environment. The election is OVER and they betrayed us.
Demanding the dems stop supporting genocide on the grounds that it’s the right thing to do and it clearly alienated their voters is not supporting Trump.
Holding the dems accountable for the shit show they orchestrated at the behest of israel is not supporting Trump.
Demanding they start to actually represent us and demanding internal changes in the party is not supporting Trump.
Who are you supporting by defending their stance on genocide so consistently?
Who are you supporting by defending their stance on genocide so consistently?
Dems don’t support genocide. Claiming otherwise is outright misinformation FUD targeting Democratic voters to drive support for RUpublicans.
As your links show, the dems created a massive vulnerability by supporting genocide. It doesnt say anything about them not supporting it.
The dems have to change their stance. Russia using their support for genocide against them doesnt mean we should support genocide. They kind of solve both problems by publicly condemning Israel and its what voters want as well.
Removed by mod
